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Multiple Church Leaders Condemn Bigoted Ad Against California Proposition 8

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J

jonny

Well-Known Member
Sunstone said:
Is there some significant way in which your behavior here differs from the White person who, after being mugged by a single Black person, responds by refusing to support racial equality for any Black person? I'm not wanting to argue the point with you, Jonny. I know damn well what I think of you for what you've done. I'm just curious how you think of yourself.
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The difference is that it wasn't one person. I've been defending gay marriage to my Mormon friends and Mormons to my gay friends for months. I'm sick of hearing people call my friends and family bigots and homophobes - especially since these people have refused to listen to the "pro Prop 8" arguments (as obviously apparent in this thread). I'm tired of messages from friends about how I'm a bad Mormon and destroying the family for not supporting Prop 8. This entire debate consists of lots of yelling and ZERO listening. I can argue both sides, and I see valid concerns on both sides and silly arguments on both sides. Unfortunately, I seem to be in the minority when it comes to that.

I was getting burned down by the whole fiasco and this ad threw me over the edge. I saw the thing and my first reaction was honestly frustration at my church. I've been furious that it has thrown its weight behind this from the beginning. I almost sent the ad out to everyone I know with the message "This is why the church shouldn't have stepped into this mess." My frustration with the church quickly turned into anger with the people who made the video, which is when I officially quit trying to convince people to be against this proposition and said they're on their own. Yeah, I'm happy it passed because I don't like the tactics (like these) people used to try to and stop it. I don't think you should reward bad behavior. I would have been just as happy if it hadn't passed.

I hope that someday every relationship will have the ability to be seen equally before the law while at the same time preserving religious freedom. That's what this is all about, and until the issues on both sides are addressed, nothing is going to happen.

As for what you think of me, I don't give a ****. The only thing I've "done" is state my opinion. If you can't respect that, you should probably find another hobby.
 
Magic Man

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
9-10ths_Penguin said:
Yes, I am.


Because in a democracy, people can vote their consciences regardless of what informs their consciences. If you were to declare that religious beliefs couldn't be expressed in public life, that would be breaking down the barrier between church and state.
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Sure, they can. However, it shouldn't even be up for vote in the first place. Also, in this case, "voting their conscience" means voting to take away the rights of others, and they know that. The ballot even said exactly that. It didn't say "Protect marriage", it said "Takes away the right to same-sex marriage". The fact that this was up for voting breaks down the separation of church and state.

It was at the end:

- "missionary" 1: That was too easy.
- "missionary 2: Yeah, what should we ban next?
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I don't see it as just a Mormon whim, but a general religious one. Also, if they can accomplish this, there really is a danger of it going further.
 
Magic Man

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
jonny said:
The difference is that it wasn't one person. I've been defending gay marriage to my Mormon friends and Mormons to my gay friends for months. I'm sick of hearing people call my friends and family bigots and homophobes - especially since these people have refused to listen to the "pro Prop 8" arguments (as obviously apparent in this thread). I'm tired of messages from friends about how I'm a bad Mormon and destroying the family for not supporting Prop 8. This entire debate consists of lots of yelling and ZERO listening. I can argue both sides, and I see valid concerns on both sides and silly arguments on both sides. Unfortunately, I seem to be in the minority when it comes to that.

I was getting burned down by the whole fiasco and this ad threw me over the edge. I saw the thing and my first reaction was honestly frustration at my church. I've been furious that it has thrown its weight behind this from the beginning. I almost sent the ad out to everyone I know with the message "This is why the church shouldn't have stepped into this mess." My frustration with the church quickly turned into anger with the people who made the video, which is when I officially quit trying to convince people to be against this proposition and said they're on their own. Yeah, I'm happy it passed because I don't like the tactics (like these) people used to try to and stop it. I don't think you should reward bad behavior. I would have been just as happy if it hadn't passed.

I hope that someday every relationship will have the ability to be seen equally before the law while at the same time preserving religious freedom. That's what this is all about, and until the issues on both sides are addressed, nothing is going to happen.

As for what you think of me, I don't give a ****. The only thing I've "done" is state my opinion. If you can't respect that, you should probably find another hobby.
Click to expand...

The only side who doesn't listen in this debate is the supporters of Prop 8. I've heard all of your arguments. I've listened to them and processed them. They just don't hold up. There is faulty logic involved in all of them. The main thing is that this whole thing has nothing to do with religion. We are talking about a state contract, not a religious one. Therefore, religious beliefs should not even factor into it. The part that exposes the supporters of Prop 8 as prejudiced and biased on this issue is the fact that no one is campaigning to "protect marriage" from atheists or people of other religions, or from people getting married outside of a church and not even mentioning God (take me as an example), or most importantly from divorce. If there was as much support for movements agains those things, it would at least make sense and be consistent. Since there is not, it is clear that it is due to prejudice against homosexuals.

You'll also excuse me if i don't believe that you were so supportive of opposing the Prop until you saw this ad. If that is the case, it's pretty immature to then say "I don't like what some of you said about me, so I'm glad none of you have rights now". That's simply anger and malice, and it doesn't help your cause.
 
doppelganger

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
jonny said:
The damage is done. Not by you, but by the movement itself. I might come around to supporting them again, but not anytime soon. For the time being, my mantra is "you're on your own."
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But the hate and lies spewed in ads funded by your church don't bother you. Let's be clear: my apology was not directed at you, jonny. You can have your anger. I don't really care.
 
stacey bo bacey

stacey bo bacey

oh no you di'int
madhatter85 said:
that website if laughable at best.

It reminds me of that group of gays who want to be lds without giving up their sinful life.... can't remember the name of their group...
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Ok, people......question:

what's the best way to go about NOT ripping someone's head off? Hmmm.....
 
Wandered Off

Wandered Off

Sporadic Driveby Member
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * STAFF ADVISORY * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *​


Sorry folks, but in the interest of civility and temper retention, the Staff has decided to close this thread permanently. All sides have aired grievances, and it's time to move on.
 
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