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Multiple Church Leaders Condemn Bigoted Ad Against California Proposition 8
- Thread starter zippythepinhead
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zippythepinhead
Your Tax Dollars At Work
Please don't put words in my mouth. First I do not fear and hate gay people. I have friends who are gay. I just don't think that marriage is a homosexual union, it is a heterosexual union.doppelgänger;1323685 said:
Homosexuals deserve tolerance and the right to pursue life, liberty, and happiness as we all do. However, I believe that there are certain institutions that need to be protected from encroachment from those that want to redifine the principles of society. Marriage is one of those. For you to say that I hate gays and want to spread that hate is the type of closed mindedness that is intolerable.
When in this nation, or this world, is it wrong to stand up for what you believe without being vilified by those who may disagree with you?
Open mindedness is NOT accepting every social change that comes down my way. I believe there are certain morals and actions that are right and wrong. Why would you ask me to compromise my morals? So that you can convince me and others in society that you know it all, are right all the time, and the rest of us are wrong?
The most closed minded people are those who accuse those with whom they disagree of biggotry, homophobia, xenophobia, hate mongers, etc..
Tolerance is not agreeing with everybody else. It means respecting their right to exist peacefully among us within civil norms. Forcing agreement is uniformity, brainwashing, shaming, and is completely unacceptable in a civilized society!
We are a nation of laws. The voters of Arizona, California, and Florida spoke as a majority that they want marriage defined as a legal union between one man and one woman. Majority rule is the way our society runs. We respect minority rights and protect them over and beyond the call of duty.
But there is tyranny of the minority as well. When the minority uses coercion physical, verbal, economic or otherwise to control majority rule, it is just as wrong as persecution of the minority by the majority.
So please don't put words in my mouth. I can do that myself.:slap:
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
No one is asking you to compromise your morals, because your morals have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with what other people do (especially when they don't share your morals). If you think something is wrong, don't do it. How ******* hard is that for you to understand? Who the hell are you to impose your morals upon other people, anyway?
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
Then don't enter into a gay marriage. Problem solved. Oh yeah. . . except for that part where you won't leave other people's private lives to them, and instead insist that you should decide what their values are. That's still a problem.
So you fear rather than hate gay people. Got it.
When you don't respect the rights of others. Pretty obvious, really. :slap:
So that would include nobody you're arguing with. I'm accusing you of closed-mindedness and bigotry not because you disagree with me, but because you want to take rights away from people you fear.
Provided "civil norms" means everyone agrees with you, right?
The majority does not have the right to invade the basic liberties of the minority. Never has.
So somebody is forcing you to enter into gay marriages? Do you know how ridiculous this rant of yours makes you look?
No need to, Mr. thePinhead. You're doing just fine on your own. :flirt:
The majority of Americans agree with the LDS Church, so I don't see what really needed exposing. The church is in the mainstream on this issue. You're not.
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
You can maintain the traditional definition of marriage all you want, jonny. When you force your personal values in the private affairs of other people through the government, and justify it with outright lies to make people fear them . . . then you're a bigot.
If the shoe fits . . .
Nobody is forcing you to change your marriage or how you define it. You're the one doing the forcing. :areyoucra
doppelgänger;1324079 said:
That's the exact argument my friends kept making for Prop 8 (as I stupidly defended gay marriage) - "they're trying to force their personal values on my children and grandchildren." Both sides do it. Quit pretending they don't.
A bigot is someone who is intolerant of other people's points of view. Based on the discussions we've had, the anti-prop 8 people are just as bigoted as everyone else.
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
That's idiotic, jonny. Nobody is using the force of law to invade your marriage and your adult, consensual relationships. The same is not true of proponents of Proposition 8. They aren't content to determine their own values. They have to determine them for everyone.
That's complete B.S. You can have your opinion and state it all you want. When you invade others rights, that's a different matter altogether.
Your attempt at moral equivalence here is laughably shallow.
If you think so, Jonny, I fear that you just don't understand what is at stake here.
To the best of my knowledge there is no arguing that heterosexual couples who want to marry should keep the right to do so. No one who is in favor of same sex marriage is attacking heterosexual marriage.
To the best of my knowledge there is no arguing that heterosexual couples who want to marry should keep the right to do so. No one who is in favor of same sex marriage is attacking heterosexual marriage.
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
Yes. I did. And it was funny.
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
The problem with the ad is that it hit waaaaaay too close to home. Like any good satire, it hurt because it's true.
I think it's funny that gay people want to get married. Most everyone I know who is married would rather be single.
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
No, but they are attacking my friends, family, and church, which is what ended my support for their cause.
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
They didn't reject gay marriage. They passed a law trying to take the right away and invalidate people's families. The fact that you're proud of that is nothing less than vile.
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