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LDS Only: Hitler's afterlife

FFH

Veteran Member
Okay, but that still begs the original question: how do you know that Hitler wasn't born with some kind of mental disability?

Also, where do brain injuries fall into this spectrum?
Birth defects and brain injuries do not cause insanity, sin does, either perpetrated on another or originating from the one who is insane and has become insane due to sin.

True, many are insane due to the sins of another, one sin being perpetrated upon another, but we do have the choice to forgive and become whole again, even if another has driven us to insanity with their evil or bad actions.

I can choose to forgive horrible acts that another may have forced upon me, which has never happened, but I've been in situations where I could have been raped another male, yet I chose to not be angry at the person and to talk them out of it and get out of that situation as quickly and prayerfully as possible.

I've been in dangerous situations that could have gone VERY bad, not knowing the intentions of another person, yet I would pray myself out of very potentially bad situations that could have driven me completely insane but I chose to call upon God for help in my hour of need rather than be angry and helpless.

Insanity is a choice.

Brain birth defects and injuries are just that defects and injuries, which DO NOT drive a person to insanity, but rather they are limited mentally and innocent before God.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
I simply don't know how to respond to this statement. It is beyond offensive. It's disgusting. It also shows incredible ignorance.
Okay, true, insanity can come about by one person committing horrible sins against another, literally driving an innocent person mad, but we still have the choice to forgive a person who has driven us insane due to his her horrible acts perpetrated upon us, thus restoring our own sanity.

It's still a choice either way.

Holding a grudge against another because of their unspeakable acts perpetrated against us, is in itself a sin, which can drive one insane as well.
 
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DeepShadow

White Crow
Brain birth defects and injuries are just that defects and injuries, which DO NOT drive a person to insanity, but rather they are limited mentally and innocent before God.

So you agree that some people are mentally limited by birth defects?
 

FFH

Veteran Member
So you agree that some people are mentally limited by birth defects?
Of course, I've worked with many varying degrees of mentally disabled young people over the last 20 years. They are in no way insane and will respond to love shown towards them, but could easily become disturbed if treated in a sinful manner by another.

So it's true inanity can be caused by the sins of another.

Hitler was not insane, he was obviously in his right mind and had a hatred for the Jews that began at the mere sight of a Jew, while he was in college. That's just pure hatred, one towards another. He didn't like their beliefs and became determined to let them and the world know of his hatred towards them.

The President of Iran has that same type of hatred, which Christ spoke of would come in the last days.
 
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DeepShadow

White Crow
A truly insane person could not have lead a nation into a holocaust so systematically and so orderly executed.

Hitler knew full well what he was doing.

First, I never said Hitler was insane. Insanity is a legal term. I'm a psych major. The vast majority of mentally ill people are perfectly sane, so lets just put the term to bed and be done with it.

As for how well he led the nation, there are plenty of sources that show that Hitler was a poor leader who surrounded himself with people who were far more intelligent and capable. It wasn't Hitler who redesigned Germany's educational system to brainwash the children, nor the Youth Corps, nor the SS. All of these crucial projects were delegated to people who were far more competent than Hitler.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
This is not a portrait of an insane man...

I've been to Munich and Austria, Munich was a very disturbing area of the world, I didn't like it at all. We went to the Munich Octoberfest in 1990, which was part of our tour.

Austria had a much more peaceful feeling.

From this link: Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





A young Hitler (left) posing with other German soldiers.

Early adulthood in Vienna and Munich

From 1905 on, Hitler lived a bohemian life in Vienna on an orphan's pension and support from his mother. He was rejected twice by the Academy of Fine Arts Vienna (1907–1908), citing "unfitness for painting", and was told his abilities lay instead in the field of architecture.[12] His memoirs reflect a fascination with the subject:
The purpose of my trip was to study the picture gallery in the Court Museum, but I had eyes for scarcely anything but the Museum itself. From morning until late at night, I ran from one object of interest to another, but it was always the buildings which held my primary interest.[13]
Following the school rector's recommendation, he too became convinced this was his path to pursue, yet he lacked the proper academic preparation for architecture school:
In a few days I myself knew that I should some day become an architect. To be sure, it was an incredibly hard road; for the studies I had neglected out of spite at the Realschule were sorely needed. One could not attend the Academy's architectural school without having attended the building school at the Technic, and the latter required a high-school degree. I had none of all this. The fulfillment of my artistic dream seemed physically impossible.[13]
On 21 December 1907, Hitler's mother died of breast cancer at age 47. Ordered by a court in Linz, Hitler gave his share of the orphans' benefits to his sister Paula. When he was 21, he inherited money from an aunt. He struggled as a painter in Vienna, copying scenes from postcards and selling his paintings to merchants and tourists. After being rejected a second time by the Academy of Arts, Hitler ran out of money. In 1909, he lived in a shelter for the homeless. By 1910, he had settled into a house for poor working men.

Hitler said he first became an anti-Semite in Vienna,[13] which had a large Jewish community, including Orthodox Jews who had fled the pogroms in Russia. But according to a childhood friend, August Kubizek, Hitler was a "confirmed anti-Semite" before he left Linz, Austria.[13] Vienna at that time was a hotbed of traditional religious prejudice and 19th century racism. Hitler may have been influenced by the writings of the ideologist and anti-Semite Lanz von Liebenfels and polemics from politicians such as Karl Lueger, founder of the Christian Social Party and Mayor of Vienna, the composer Richard Wagner, and Georg Ritter von Schönerer, leader of the pan-Germanic Away from Rome! movement. Hitler claims in Mein Kampf that his transition from opposing antisemitism on religious grounds to supporting it on racial grounds came from having seen an Orthodox Jew:
There were very few Jews in Linz. In the course of centuries the Jews who lived there had become Europeanized in external appearance and were so much like other human beings that I even looked upon them as Germans. The reason why I did not then perceive the absurdity of such an illusion was that the only external mark which I recognized as distinguishing them from us was the practice of their strange religion. As I thought that they were persecuted on account of their faith my aversion to hearing remarks against them grew almost into a feeling of abhorrence. I did not in the least suspect that there could be such a thing as a systematic antisemitism. Once, when passing through the inner City, I suddenly encountered a phenomenon in a long caftan and wearing black side-locks. My first thought was: Is this a Jew? They certainly did not have this appearance in Linz. I carefully watched the man stealthily and cautiously but the longer I gazed at the strange countenance and examined it feature by feature, the more the question shaped itself in my brain: Is this a German?[13]
If this account is true, Hitler apparently did not act on his new belief. He often was a guest for dinner in a noble Jewish house, and he interacted well with Jewish merchants who tried to sell his paintings.[14]

Hitler may also have been influenced by Martin Luther's On the Jews and their Lies. In Mein Kampf, Hitler refers to Martin Luther as a great warrior, a true statesman, and a great reformer, alongside Wagner and Frederick the Great.[15] Wilhelm Röpke, writing after the Holocaust, concluded that "without any question, Lutheranism influenced the political, spiritual and social history of Germany in a way that, after careful consideration of everything, can be described only as fateful."[16][17]

Hitler claimed that Jews were enemies of the Aryan race. He held them responsible for Austria's crisis. He also identified certain forms of Socialism and Bolshevism, which had many Jewish leaders, as Jewish movements, merging his antisemitism with anti-Marxism. Later, blaming Germany's military defeat in World War I on the 1918 revolutions, he considered Jews the culprits of Imperial Germany's downfall and subsequent economic problems as well.
 
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DeepShadow

White Crow
This is not a portrait of an insane man...

No, but it may be a portrait of a man with an underdeveloped frontal lobe. Medical records from Hitler's doctors show that his brain is closer to that of an early teenager. He was stuck in a perpetual preadolescence, and the best evidence is that this condition was congenital. If that's the case, then he fits the criteria specified in the Melchizedek Priesthood Handbook for not being accountable.
 

DeepShadow

White Crow
What does this have to do with the opening post ???

It has everything to do with the OP. If Hitler's frontal lobe was damaged or underdeveloped, he was not accountable, according to the Melchizedek Priesthood Handbook.

Do you agree with the Handbook? Does someone with a damaged frontal lobe need to be baptized? Are they accountable?
 

FFH

Veteran Member
First, I never said Hitler was insane. Insanity is a legal term. I'm a psych major. The vast majority of mentally ill people are perfectly sane, so lets just put the term to bed and be done with it.

As for how well he led the nation, there are plenty of sources that show that Hitler was a poor leader who surrounded himself with people who were far more intelligent and capable. It wasn't Hitler who redesigned Germany's educational system to brainwash the children, nor the Youth Corps, nor the SS. All of these crucial projects were delegated to people who were far more competent than Hitler.
Okay, then the people under Hitler were insane for following orders from a man less competent than themselves.

I've done the same, now I have moved up and have started to do things more efficiently than those who were above me.

I post nearly 90 percent of the time here at work and STILL get all my work done more efficiently and cheaper than others in my same position.

I hate working under those who are less competent and borderline insane, Hitler reminds me of such an individual.

When or if we ever see Satan in his aweful true state, we shall say...

2 Nephi 24
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and shall consider thee, and shall say: Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms?


17 And made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof, and opened not the house of his prisoners?


18 All the kings of the nations, yea, all of them, lie in glory, every one of them in his own house.


19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and the remnant of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcass trodden under feet.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
It has everything to do with the OP. If Hitler's frontal lobe was damaged or underdeveloped, he was not accountable, according to the Melchizedek Priesthood Handbook.

Do you agree with the Handbook? Does someone with a damaged frontal lobe need to be baptized? Are they accountable?
Show me the medical reports.

I've worked with those who are so slightly disabled you can hardly notice it. They function almost normally, until you try and teach them something, then they freeze up and are unable to function, but they can drive a car, work, learn at a slower pace, but they are limited.

Hitler could function at a college level, which is nearly impossible for those I've observed and worked with, even at the slightest mentally disabled level, who are clinically mentally disabled and have been diagnosed as such.

There is no way that Hitler had any clinical mental disabilities.
 
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DeepShadow

White Crow
Okay, then the people under Hitler were insane for following orders from a man less competent than themselves.

Okay, I think you've switched from using "insane" as a synonym for "mentally ill" to using as a synonym for "stupid." This is not an improvement. People can be mentally ill without being insane. People can be stupid without being either.

Please stop using the term "insane" unless you are using it as a legal term. Legally, it means unable to distinguish right from wrong. Are you saying that the more intelligent, more competent people under Hitler were unable to distinguish right from wrong? That the child molester he put in charge of the school systems was unable to realize that having sex with schoolgirls was morally wrong?
 

FFH

Veteran Member
These are not the actions of a clinically mentally disabled person in the slightest.

Hitler was fully aware of his actions.

Prabably a little insane due to Satan incarnating him though, as was the case with Judas Iscariot, when Satan entered into him just before he went to betray Christ for 30 pieces of silver, then later took his own life, as did Hitler.

You need to be a little insane (demon possessed) to be willing to take your own life as well as the life of others.


YouTube - Hitler speech (English subtitles)
 
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DeepShadow

White Crow
Show me the medical reports.

Okay, I'll go dig some up.

I've worked with those who are so slightly disabled you can hardly notice it. They function almost normally, until you try and teach them something, then they freeze up and are unable to function, but they can drive a car, work, learn at a slower pace, but they are limited.

You're only talking about learning disabilities. That's less than one-third the types of mental disability. What about Tourette's Syndrome? Is that caused by a demon?

Hitler could function at a college level, which is nearly impossible for those I've observed and worked with, even at the slightest mentally disabled level, who are clinically mentally disabled and have been diagnosed as such.

People with damaged frontal lobes can go to college all the way to PhD. The frontal lobe is not involved in learning.

There is no way that hitler had any clinical mental disabilities.

Like you could tell. Just because he went to college, that means he didn't have a mental disability?

But you didn't answer my question: do you agree with the handbook that people with such injuries/birth defects are not accountable?
 

DeepShadow

White Crow
These are not the actions of a clinically mentally disabled person in the slightest.

You keep saying that, but you have offered nothing to back it up. If the award-winning CEO of a Fortune 500 company can have a frontal lobe injury, why not Hitler?
 

FFH

Veteran Member
When Jesus cast out the legion of demons from this man and cast them into the herd of swine, he became SANE again.

He went for INSANITY to SANITY, AFTER the legion of demons were cast out of him.

Mark 5: 15
And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.

Luke 8: 35
Then they went out to see what was done; and came to Jesus, and found the man, out of whom the devils were departed, sitting at the feet of Jesus, clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.
 

DeepShadow

White Crow
When Jesus cast out the legion of demons from this man he became SANE.

Okay, but the real question is, when that man died and came before God, was he judged for the actions of the devils while they were inside him?

This is ignoring, for the sake of argument, that you've conflated "sane" with "in right mind." AGAIN.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
You keep saying that, but you have offered nothing to back it up. If the award-winning CEO of a Fortune 500 company can have a frontal lobe injury, why not Hitler?
The burden of proof is on you, show me the medical reports.

There are none.

Show me the video of ANY speech or ANY interview of the "award-winning CEO of A Fortune 500 company" person you are thinking of and we will compare his speech and actions to those of Hitlers.

Hitler does not act like someone with a clinical mental disability, even in the slightest degree.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Can a demon possess an individual who has not sinned or who cannot sin, as with children under the age of accountablility (age 8) or those who are mentally disabled ???

It's easy to spot those who are mentally disabled, who do not know right from wrong, they are as little children.

If the part of the brain that can distinguish between right and wrong is defective or damaged then that individual needs no baptism or repentance and is innocent before the LORD.

I've answered this question several times but you refuse to HEAR my answer.

You know more than I do whether the ability to distinguish and choose right from wrong is located in the left or right frontal lobe. If not,,,then a damaged or defective frontal left or right lobe would not qualify one for being innocent before the LORD and perfectly cabable of choosing right from wrong.
 
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