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Colorado Supreme Court Throws Out Death Penalty From Bible-Reading Jurors

Pah

Pah

Uber all member
Colorado Supreme Court Throws Out Death Penalty From Bible-Reading Jurors

By Steven K. Paulson Associated Press Writer
Published: Mar 28, 2005

Complete article

DENVER (AP) - The Colorado Supreme Court on Monday threw out the death penalty in a rape-and-murder case because jurors had studied Bible verses such as "eye for eye, tooth for tooth" during deliberations.
On a 3-2 vote, justices ordered Robert Harlan to serve life in prison without parole for kidnapping 25-year-old cocktail waitress Rhonda Maloney in 1994, raping her at gunpoint for two hours and then fatally shooting her.

The jurors in Harlan's 1995 trial sentenced him to die, but defense lawyers discovered five of them had looked up Bible verses, copied them down and talked about them while deliberating a sentence behind closed doors.

The Supreme Court said "at least one juror in this case could have been influenced by these authoritative passages to vote for the death penalty when he or she may otherwise have voted for a life sentence."
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It would seem a matter of conscience would be permitted where biblical authority is not. Those with religious faith may have succeded with silence.
 
Prima

Prima

Well-Known Member
When will people finally comprehend 'separation of church and state'?! THIS IS NOT A THEOCRACY, PEOPLE! Your religious text and my laws are not the same thing! </rant>
 
Pah

Pah

Uber all member
Prima said:
When will people finally comprehend 'separation of church and state'?! THIS IS NOT A THEOCRACY, PEOPLE! Your religious text and my laws are not the same thing! </rant>
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But don't you think it would be okay for a person of good conscience (however that is defined) to have a conscience molded by faith? It's when the faith is blatantly pushed, it becomes wrong.
 
S

Studies

Member
I think that any chrsitian who reads the bible for any length of time will have certain problems seperating the judgement you are ask to give. Jesus told us not to judge others so thats in our minds. Then God says vengence is mine, so its hard to make a judgement call on a person. That being said there is a line you can not cross if your on a jury. As( pah ) has stated its when faith is blantly pushed is when it becomes wrong. That is the line you can not cross.
 
Jaymes

Jaymes

The cake is a lie
Why couldn't they have read the verses that say that he without sin can throw the first stone? :areyoucra
 
CaptainXeroid

CaptainXeroid

Following Christ
Prima said:
When will people finally comprehend 'separation of church and state'?! THIS IS NOT A THEOCRACY, PEOPLE! Your religious text and my laws are not the same thing! </rant>
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Since the words 'serperation of church and state' do not appear in the Constitution and the whole concept is a misinterpretation of the intent of the framers. Our country and our laws certainly have been influenced by our faith, but that hardly makes America a theocracy.

It's a shame that the life of this murderous punk was spared....truly a miscarriage of justice.:tsk:
 
robtex

robtex

Veteran Member
Wow that is interesting Pah. The legal system is pretty complex and calculated. Really the secular court system we have in place is pretty good at covering this angle. In the void dire when the lawyers quiz the jurors I am sure that both teams knew what he jurors general feeling on religion and capital punishment were. I have a sneaking suspicion that a slick defense lawyer knew with some "God fearin fok" in the jury box that he could have an ace in the hole. I don't know enough about the case to make a call but it kinda smells like a lawyer trick from here.
 
Jaymes

Jaymes

The cake is a lie
CaptainXeroid said:
Since the words 'serperation of church and state' do not appear in the Constitution and the whole concept is a misinterpretation of the intent of the framers. Our country and our laws certainly have been influenced by our faith, but that hardly makes America a theocracy.

It's a shame that the life of this murderous punk was spared....truly a miscarriage of justice.:tsk:
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Maybe it doesn't appear in the Constitution, but a simple search reveals it was obviously part of the beliefs of our founding fathers.

Unless you'd like to argue with Mr. Thomas Jefferson, of course.

In a letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802:

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state."

Emphasis mine.
 
CaptainXeroid

CaptainXeroid

Following Christ
Jensa said:
...Unless you'd like to argue with Mr. Thomas Jefferson, of course...
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No need to argue with him...his reference to the 'seperation of church and state' means the government should not restrict the practice of religion, not that religion should be removed from government. That is a common misinterpretation that a lot of people make, though.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
I can see a high probability for a double standard:

If the jurors had read about the mercy and forgiveness of God, they could have ordered a lessor sentence and the lawyer could be pleased. The jurors did not ask for "an eye for an eye," which is the quid pro quo rule of justice - the punishment should fit the crime. This principle is not found in the Bible alone. Furthermore, they did not request for the criminal to be raped with a stick and brutally killed, which would be the strictest interpretation of "an eye for an eye."

Furthermore, the lawyer reached too far into the privacy of the jurors. It's none of his d**n business where values come from. Granted, if he doesn't want Neo-Nazis as jurors, that can be cleared up with jury selection. As jurors, they have the duty to review the case and assign penalty as fellow citizens. Taking a persons life is serious business, and religion deserves a say in life and death situations. They could be a group of Quakers that are complete passifists and would not dream of taking a person's life. Our social values come from a source, and the Bible is no less valid a source for values than any other.

EDIT: So I am in agreement with Pah in post #3
 
ayani

ayani

member
it's not so much that the jurors were consulting their faith that bothered me, but that they got together and tried to determine legal punishment based on religious texts. deciding justice by colsulting religious texts would be apropriate were this, as Prima said, a theocracy, but it is not. i would not feel comfortable with having deliberating jurors cracking open a Quran or the Dhammapada behind the closed door, either. there's nothing wrong with letting their private faith guide them privately, but when they are on a jury in a court of law and pull out a religious text to decide what is right and wrong that is, i believe, crossing a line.
 
Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
gracie said:
it's not so much that the jurors were consulting their faith that bothered me, but that they got together and tried to determine legal punishment based on religious texts. deciding justice by colsulting religious texts would be apropriate were this, as Prima said, a theocracy, but it is not. i would not feel comfortable with having deliberating jurors cracking open a Quran or the Dhammapada behind the closed door, either. there's nothing wrong with letting their private faith guide them privately, but when they are on a jury in a court of law and pull out a religious text to decide what is right and wrong that is, i believe, crossing a line.
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I have to agree with Gracie on this one. The jurors should have determined punnishment based on the established laws, rather than on religious texts which do not have the stature of law.
 
oracle

oracle

Active Member
CaptainXeroid said:
Since the words 'serperation of church and state' do not appear in the Constitution and the whole concept is a misinterpretation of the intent of the framers. Our country and our laws certainly have been influenced by our faith, but that hardly makes America a theocracy.

It's a shame that the life of this murderous punk was spared....truly a miscarriage of justice.:tsk:
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So how does an eye for an eye change anything?
 
Pah

Pah

Uber all member
oracle said:
So how does an eye for an eye change anything?
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Because that is not part of our law. Specific factors go into a death penalty judgement and biblical punishment is not one of them.
 
BUDDY

BUDDY

User of Aspercreme
I thought that this judgement was totally illigitimate. I think the judges decision was unconstitutional. I don't believe that there are any laws making it wrong for a jury (autonomous group of people) to consult a bible when making an opinion. Do do so is to break a persons right to freedom of religion.
 
Pah

Pah

Uber all member
EEWRED said:
I thought that this judgement was totally illigitimate. I think the judges decision was unconstitutional. I don't believe that there are any laws making it wrong for a jury (autonomous group of people) to consult a bible when making an opinion. Do do so is to break a persons right to freedom of religion.
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That would be covered in the instructions to the jury. Failure to follow standard procedure would be liable for contempt of court and voidance of any decision.
 
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