this is my first contribution....

*Paul* said:

Surely all the bad things we do are done to someone, if there is no victim or offended person then it wouldn't be a bad thing.... would it?

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mohammed_beiruti said:

peace ve upon you every one

first of all I'd like to introduce my self to u

am an arabian

in our country we love profit mohammed -PBUH- very much

our grandfathers in the old past before almost 1400 years were worhipping idols

profit mohammed PBUH convetred thier beleives to submet islam

the debate was before they submeted islam was that

"Quraish" (coalition of arab tibes) were worshipping idols

these idols names were "Lat, Uzza, manat" thsese were considered as daughters of god(the father), also considered as luminous angels that she become incarnated in idols ,

quraish were sublicating salvation from these angles
they beleived in thier divinities and thier incarnation in idols,

mohammed PBUH told Quraish that he had a revelation from holy ghost (angels named gabriel) told him that quraish were worshiping a false gods , and the truth god is "one god"
the god of ibraham,moses and jesus

but they debated that they have a true faith and saied as in surah "Surah 43"


57. When (Jesus) the son of Mary is held up as an example, behold, thy people raise a clamour thereat (in ridicule)! 58. And they say, "Are our gods best, or he?" This they set forth to thee, only by way of disputation: yea, they are a contentious people

they didn't belive him....

they dnied that: angles are males, they beleived that angels are just females and they are daughters of god , and they didn't beleive that mohammed did see an angel (gabriel).

the qura'an told us in surah 53


18. For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest!
19. Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza,
20. And another, the third (goddess), Manat?
21. What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?
22. Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!
23. These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!
24. Nay, shall man have (just) anything he hankers after? 25. But it is to Allah that the End and the Beginning (of all things) belong.


after along debate about the divinity of God, and after many difficulties that our profits -PBUH had encountered , the arab word became faithfull in one God the god of Ibraham,moses and jesus , no sons, no daughters, no incarnation , and the salvation is gained by good faith and good deeds( you remember the exapmble of the groom,the brides and the lamps)

thank u for lestning

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*Paul* said:

War on Imposters
It was now time to strike at the imposters. Usama's army had rested and was ready to go into action again. Abu Bakr marched the army about twelve miles along the road to Nejd. Here he divided it into eleven battalions. Each battalion was put under the command of an experienced commander. The commanders were then told to march against different imposters.
Before these armies left, a general warning was given to the imposters and their followers. They were assured of pardon if they came back to Islam. The Caliph gave the following instructions to his commanders:
"I request the soldiers of Islam to fear Allah, under all conditions. They should do their best to obey the commandments of Allah. They should fight against those who have left Islam and have fallen in the trap of the devil. But before taking out swords, they must declare the message of Islam. If the apostates accept it, they must at once hold back their hands. But if the message is rejected, they must attack and fight till these people give up disbelief. When the apostates re-enter the fold of Islam, the commander of the Muslim army must explain to them their rights and duties under Islam. They should be given their rights and should be made to do their duties. The commander should keep his men from hasty action and mischief. He should avoid a headlong plunge into enemy settlements. He should rather enter them after making sure of all precautions, lest Muslims suffer a loss. Whether he is on the march of in the camp, the commander should be kind and considerate towards his men. He should look to their comfort and should be gentle in speech."
The Caliph explained these instructions to the commanders. Then they led their battalions against the several imposters. Abu Bakr then came back to Medina. He had already forced the waverers among Muslims to pay Zakat (the poor-rate). Now he launched an all-out attack on imposters and their followers.
Abu Bakr Siddiq

The simple fact is that those who tried to leave Islam were given two choices, come back and submit to the laws of Islam or die.
Given this kind of compulsion in your religion and that it is still punishable by death to leave Islam in many places how can you know for sure if those first mulsims and many of todays muslims are muslims out of choice or because they had the misfortune of being born into it and have no other choice? You say it was all political but it clearly wasn't Islam is both a political and religious arrangement.

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