John 19 (the crusifxion of Jesus)

1Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him. 2And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,
3And said, Hail, King of the Jews! and they smote him with their hands.
4Pilate therefore went forth again, and saith unto them, Behold, I bring him forth to you, that ye may know that I find no fault in him.
5Then came Jesus forth, wearing the crown of thorns, and the purple robe. And Pilate saith unto them, Behold the man!
6When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.
7The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
8When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid;
9And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus, Whence art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer.
10Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?
11Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
12And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.
13When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
14And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
15But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.
16Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.
17And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
18Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.
19And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
20This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
21Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.
22Pilate answered, What I have written I have written.
23Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.
24They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.
25Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
26When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
27Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
28After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
29Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
30When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
31The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
32Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
33But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
34But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
35And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
36For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
37And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
38And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.
39And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight.
40Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.
41Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid.
42There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.

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bcsmith2846 said:

So now my personal thoughts on the subject... I think Jesus was hurting so bad that he passed out from the pain and the soldiers mistook him for dead so they didn't break his legs which would have surly killed him. Instead they pierced his side and blood ran down his side, people have survived worse. Then the men who carried him away were his followers (they could have cared for his wounds and put him somewhere safe for the only day that anyone saw into the tomb was on the third day) Then he was carried and "put into the tomb" to arise three days later.... Dressed as a gardener. But that's for a different segment if enough people thought this was interesting i will do the rising of Jesus as well.

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So you think that Jesus survived crucifixion and his resurrection was faked because he never died (at least, from the cross)?

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sputnik323 said:

It seems much more likely to me that he would really be dead.

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Mjolnir said:

Maybe it is much more likely that he would be dead, but is the likelihood any better that he would rise from the dead?

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bcsmith2846 said:

So now my personal thoughts on the subject... I think Jesus was hurting so bad that he passed out from the pain and the soldiers mistook him for dead so they didn't break his legs which would have surly killed him. Instead they pierced his side and blood ran down his side, people have survived worse. Then the men who carried him away were his followers (they could have cared for his wounds and put him somewhere safe for the only day that anyone saw into the tomb was on the third day) Then he was carried and "put into the tomb" to arise three days later.... Dressed as a gardener. But that's for a different segment if enough people thought this was interesting i will do the rising of Jesus as well.

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sputnik323 said:

While I think your analysis is interesting I think there are a few points you aren't thinking about.
1st. Jesus was a political problem for those in charge. Just because it is ancient history doesn’t mean that the guards couldn't figure out when a person was dead (they had lots of experience with death in those days) I think they would make sure someone this influential would be dead.
2nd Medical experts and historians both describe the water mixed with blood when the spear pierced him as a "broken" damaged heart (kind of hard to live without a working heart)
3rd before his crucifixion he was brutally assaulted with a flail which alone can cause death.
4th I don’t think the guard with the spear would make a flesh wound in making sure someone would be dead. Executioners would likely be skilled at their job and sink the spear in deep.
5th There wasn't a hospital you can go to like you can today, stubbing your toe could be fatal if it got infected. Living for 3 days with so much loss of blood and so many wounds and having your death supervised by your enemies... It seems much more likely to me that he would really be dead.

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