Is prayer the walkie-talkie of war?

Heneni · Aug 17, 2008

It calls on god for courage (ephesians 6:19)
It calls for troop deployment and target location (Acts 13: 1-3)
It calls for protection and air cover (matthew 6:13,luke21:36)
It calls for firepower to blast open a way for the word (Collosians 4:3)
It calls for a miracle of healing for the wounded soldier (James 1:5)
It calls for supplies for the forces (matthew 6:11;Phillipians 4:6)
And it calls for needed reinforcements(matthew 9:38)

.lava · Aug 17, 2008

Bible is very interesting sometimes

i think it is very humane to ask help from God in wars. however i'd like hear thoughts of Christians.

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sojourner · Aug 18, 2008

Heneni said:
It calls on god for courage (ephesians 6:19)
It calls for troop deployment and target location (Acts 13: 1-3)
It calls for protection and air cover (matthew 6:13,luke21:36)
It calls for firepower to blast open a way for the word (Collosians 4:3)
It calls for a miracle of healing for the wounded soldier (James 1:5)
It calls for supplies for the forces (matthew 6:11;Phillipians 4:6)
And it calls for needed reinforcements(matthew 9:38)

Our Father (a conversation with Daddy)
in heaven (ascribing deity to God)
Hallowed be your Name (worship of that deity)
Your kingdom come (an expression of hope for life)
Your will be done on earth as in heaven (an offer of subservience)
Give us today our daily bread (a cry for providence)
Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us (an expression of penitence)
Save us from the time of trial and deliver us from evil (a cry for salvation)

Seems to me that prayer (as Jesus taught it) is more positive and peaceful than would allow for war...

ChristineES · Aug 18, 2008

I don't recall ever praying for a war. I don't recall anyone praying for a war in the Churches I have been to either. Above my post Sorjourner posted how Jesus taught us to pray. You notice it didn't mention war.

Heneni · Aug 20, 2008

According to the bible, there is a spiritual war going on, which we are in.

sojourner · Aug 20, 2008

The Bible is either mistaken about that, or it's a metaphor -- albeit a poor one. Because of Christ, we dwell in felicity with God. God is not a God of war. God is a God of peace. Our world view is vastly different from that of the ancients who told the stories about God and war.

Heneni · Aug 20, 2008

sojourner said:
The Bible is either mistaken about that, or it's a metaphor -- albeit a poor one. Because of Christ, we dwell in felicity with God. God is not a God of war. God is a God of peace. Our world view is vastly different from that of the ancients who told the stories about God and war.

Jesus said...I did not come to bring peace but a sword. He also said that there will be devision between families. Family members turning against each other and all sorts of nasty things going on.

He also said, that whoever is not against him is for him. The bible also says that the kingdom suffers violence and the violent take it by force.

Doesnt seem peaceful. God is not a war instigator, if that is what you thought I was trying to imply you got me wrong.

sojourner · Aug 20, 2008

Heneni said:
Jesus said...I did not come to bring peace but a sword. He also said that there will be devision between families. Family members turning against each other and all sorts of nasty things going on.

He also said, that whoever is not against him is for him. The bible also says that the kingdom suffers violence and the violent take it by force.

Doesnt seem peaceful. God is not a war instigator, if that is what you thought I was trying to imply you got me wrong.

Proof-texting don't make it so.

There is division in families. That's a human reality.

Whoever is not against Jesus is for Jesus -- no matter who they are, or what they profess. That's a statement of inclusion, not exclusion.

If there is a war, God is not involved in it -- it's a war of human construct. There is no spiritual war, because it is the "same Spirit" in all of us. God cannot be at war with God's Self.

Heneni · Aug 20, 2008

sojourner said:
Proof-texting don't make it so.

There is division in families. That's a human reality.

Whoever is not against Jesus is for Jesus -- no matter who they are, or what they profess. That's a statement of inclusion, not exclusion.

If there is a war, God is not involved in it -- it's a war of human construct. There is no spiritual war, because it is the "same Spirit" in all of us. God cannot be at war with God's Self.

God said, put on the full armour of god. I Dont think that god is into dress-up.

sojourner · Aug 20, 2008

Heneni said:
God said, put on the full armour of god. I Dont think that god is into dress-up.

God didn't say, "Put on the full armor of God." A human being said, "Put on the full armor of God, and it was said metaphorically.

Heneni · Aug 20, 2008

sojourner said:
God didn't say, "Put on the full armor of God." A human being said, "Put on the full armor of God, and it was said metaphorically.

Once again Sojourner, if you dont believe the bible to be truthful, im not going to dispute that matter here.

Every scripture that i mentioned in the OP can not all be metaphors.

And the armor of god isnt a metaphor. If you have ever been the victim of gossip you'll know that the 'arrows' that it puts in you, really hurts actually.

sojourner · Aug 20, 2008

Once again: I do find the Bible to be truthful. That truth is not always limited to the facts, as the writers have perceived or presented them.

Every scripture is not a metaphor. Sometimes they are the product of the writer's limited world view.

I invoke habeas corpus here. Show me the breastplate (and it had better be made of some kind of hard metal, with straps and buckles [or at least Velcro] for physically fastening it to the physical breast). If I can't touch it with my hands and buckle it on, it's a metaphor.

Heneni · Aug 20, 2008

sojourner said:
Once again: I do find the Bible to be truthful. That truth is not always limited to the facts, as the writers have perceived or presented them.

Every scripture is not a metaphor. Sometimes they are the product of the writer's limited world view.

I invoke habeas corpus here. Show me the breastplate (and it had better be made of some kind of hard metal, with straps and buckles [or at least Velcro] for physically fastening it to the physical breast). If I can't touch it with my hands and buckle it on, it's a metaphor.

Its a metaphor for sojourner, its a spiritual reality and principle for heneni. Shall we get into semantics?

sojourner · Aug 20, 2008

Heneni said:
Its a metaphor for sojourner, its a spiritual reality and principle for heneni. Shall we get into semantics?

Now we're getting somewhere. A breastplate is not always an instrument of war. Here, (and as you've presented it), it's protection. Providence. God protects us. For example, motocross riders wear breastplates when riding, in order to protect themselves from the vagaries of hard riding. So God can protect us from some of the vagaries of life. Not war. Protection.

Heneni · Aug 20, 2008

sojourner said:
Now we're getting somewhere. A breastplate is not always an instrument of war. Here, (and as you've presented it), it's protection. Providence. God protects us. For example, motocross riders wear breastplates when riding, in order to protect themselves from the vagaries of hard riding. So God can protect us from some of the vagaries of life. Not war. Protection.

You got me there..accept. Why do you need protection if there isnt a war??? LOL

sojourner · Aug 20, 2008

Heneni said:
You got me there..accept. Why do you need protection if there isnt a war??? LOL

Because we're human and we bump into each other once in a while. Harming each other does not necessarily imply an attack. An attack does not always imply that war has been declared. War is a formal relationship entered into by opposing parties. Sometimes we slap each other just to be mean. But that in no way constitutes a war -- just meanness.
I don't for one second believe that God has entered into any kind of formal opposition with anyone.

Heneni · Aug 20, 2008

sojourner said:
Because we're human and we bump into each other once in a while. Harming each other does not necessarily imply an attack. An attack does not always imply that war has been declared. War is a formal relationship entered into by opposing parties. Sometimes we slap each other just to be mean. But that in no way constitutes a war -- just meanness.
I don't for one second believe that God has entered into any kind of formal opposition with anyone.

If it wasnt a war god would have said put on your raincoat or something like that to withstand the spit flying from the slap fights we will have. I dont think you have come close to actually getting to the nitty gritty of this issue. There is a LOT of scripture that indicate there is a war going on. And so I guess were just back to 'is the bible factual' story. I'm getting bored of it.

sojourner · Aug 20, 2008

Heneni said:
If it wasnt a war god would have said put on your raincoat or something like that to withstand the spit flying from the slap fights we will have. I dont think you have come close to actually getting to the nitty gritty of this issue. There is a LOT of scripture that indicate there is a war going on. And so I guess were just back to 'is the bible factual' story. I'm getting bored of it.

There is a lot of scripture that indicates a lot of things. HOw one percdeives the "facts" depends upon one's world view. The world view of the storytellers and writers was one that was constantly caught up in war. They couldn't get away from it. Their world view is not the same as ours. What they perceive as spiritual war, we might do better to perceive as a spiritual journey.

Heneni · Aug 20, 2008

sojourner said:
There is a lot of scripture that indicates a lot of things. HOw one percdeives the "facts" depends upon one's world view. The world view of the storytellers and writers was one that was constantly caught up in war. They couldn't get away from it. Their world view is not the same as ours. What they perceive as spiritual war, we might do better to perceive as a spiritual journey.

You mean you perceive it as a spiritual journey. I dont think war is excluded from the journey.

sojourner · Aug 20, 2008

Heneni said:
You mean you perceive it as a spiritual journey. I dont think war is excluded from the journey.

Only in the sense that we're moving from a perspective of war to one of peace, as we journey toward God and transformation.

Is prayer the walkie-talkie of war?

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