Why have Christians forgotten the fourth Commandment?

I see, I haven't met a Pharisaical legalist in a long time.

Keep studying the scriptures with an open heart. Stop trying to justify your legalism and learn what Jesus' favorite Scripture was. I can't convince you to stop trying to follow the letter that kills. Only the Spirit can reveal that to you through scriptures. I know that I am not up to the task.

As a side note, I used to be as you are. I was also stuck on spiritual milk and was a legalist in the worst way. Only the Spirit can open your eyes to your condition.

II Corinthians 3:4 Such confidence as this is ours through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. NIV

I would suggest that you digest ALL of II Corinthians 3. What was the "ministry of death carved on tablets of stone"? Could this refer to ANYTHING but the 10 commandments? Listen to the Scriptures my friend: the letter KILLS. Please choose life.

Tell me this. If your parents offered you weed, should you honor what they want you to do and smoke it?
And no, I'm not exagerating at all. This kind of stuff happens all the time, and it's usually much worse stuff.
Parents are very rarely the best influences in children's lives nowadays.

d.n.irvin said:

If you ask most Christians why they don't steal, kill or lie, they respond with the usual its contrary to the Word of God(Bible)?

However if you ask the same Christians why they don't keep the 4th commandment they can't give you one reason from the Bible why the 4th commandment is any different from the rest.

Who took away this commandment? Where can I find it in the Bible?

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Christians are under no obligation to keep the 4th Commandment. This commandment was established as a sign between God and Israel with the purpose to imprint in the Jewish mind the sense of holiness and identification with God. That's in Ezekiel 20:12,20.

Now, regarding the second question about who took away this commandment, the name is Paul. If he didn't actively take it away, he left it optional by saying that it would not matter if one chose any day or none at all to keep it holy, as long as
everyone felt comfortable with his or her conscience. (Rom. 14:5) Afterwards, he must have pondered on what he had said, perhaps because his listeners had opted to stay with the Seventh-Day Sabbath, and that was not what Paul meant. Later in his Letter to the Colossians he said that the Jewish festivals and Sabbaths were but shadows of things to come. His point was really to exonerate his Church from anything that could remind of Judaism. (Colossians 3:16,17)

Therefore, Christians should not worry about the 4th Commandment. They are free to keep any other day or none at all. Since Christianity has officialized Sunday, the first day of the week, it's perfectly okay. After all it was the founder of Christianity who decided the issue.

Ben

Scuba Pete said:

I see, I haven't met a Pharisaical legalist in a long time.

Keep studying the scriptures with an open heart. Stop trying to justify your legalism and learn what Jesus' favorite Scripture was. I can't convince you to stop trying to follow the letter that kills. Only the Spirit can reveal that to you through scriptures. I know that I am not up to the task.

As a side note, I used to be as you are. I was also stuck on spiritual milk and was a legalist in the worst way. Only the Spirit can open your eyes to your condition.

II Corinthians 3:4 Such confidence as this is ours through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. NIV

I would suggest that you digest ALL of II Corinthians 3. What was the "ministry of death carved on tablets of stone"? Could this refer to ANYTHING but the 10 commandments? Listen to the Scriptures my friend: the letter KILLS. Please choose life.

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Scuba Pete,

You advise to learn what was Jesus' favorite scripture. Do you happen to know what
was it? The same as mine: Deuteronomy 6:4. Once a Scribe approached Jesus and asked him which was the first of all the commandments. Jesus answered and said that the first was to believe that God is absolutely One and the only Lord. And the second was to love one's neighbor as oneself. Mind you that the Scribe did not ask about the second, but Jesus added because to confess that God is absolutely One, is even more important than to love one another. Now, I wonder why Christians believe that God is triune and keep referring to Jesus as Lord. That's in Mark 12:29.

Ben

leahrachelle said:

Tell me this. If your parents offered you weed, should you honor what they want you to do and smoke it?

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I am not certain how this is germane to the present conversation. Could you tie it in for us?

The crux of the issue here is that some people are simply devoted to legalism. They were brought up with the idea that the laws in the Old Testament are still valid. They were replaced by Christ's Law of Love and it is written on our hearts. Let's continue our read here:

II Corinthians 3:7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! 12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. NIV

You see, the law does not change the inner man: Grace does. When you rely on the Spirit, rather than on the letter of the law to guide your actions, you will be TRANSFORMED into God's likeness. It doesn't matter whether the law you want to adhere to is circumcision, observing the Sabbath or tithing a tenth of your earnings. By adhering to just ONE, you are now required to adhere to ALL of them. What's the issue? Your motivation. Galatians 5:6 puts it beautifully: The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. NIV

Ben Masada said:

You advise to learn what was Jesus' favorite scripture. Do you happen to know what was it?

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No one can know for certain, but he quoted this more than the others. I'll give you a hint: it has a lot to do with SHOWING love.

Scuba Pete said:

I am not certain how this is germane to the present conversation. Could you tie it in for us?

The crux of the issue here is that some people are simply devoted to legalism. They were brought up with the idea that the laws in the Old Testament are still valid. They were replaced by Christ's Law of Love and it is written on our hearts. Let's continue our read here:

II Corinthians 3:7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! 12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. NIV

You see, the law does not change the inner man: Grace does. When you rely on the Spirit, rather than on the letter of the law to guide your actions, you will be TRANSFORMED into God's likeness. It doesn't matter whether the law you want to adhere to is circumcision, observing the Sabbath or tithing a tenth of your earnings. By adhering to just ONE, you are now required to adhere to ALL of them. What's the issue? Your motivation. Galatians 5:6 puts it beautifully: The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. NIV

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I am sorry but I am having trouble with excepting the Christian faith right now and especially the bible.. But yes, I was trying to fit the point of the argument, and my point is that the laws are not relevant in today's world. We find ourselves making up excuses like "Oh, well it must be a metaphor." Or "Oh, it must mean something else today." When the simple answer is that it is not supposed to work in today's world.
I personally believe that maybe the bible was originally completely correct and brilliant, and maybe Jesus was the Son of Christ. But the bible has been changed so many time over the ages, for people's own personal beliefs.

leahrachelle said:

I personally believe that maybe the bible was originally completely correct and brilliant,

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Scriptures never claim to be perfect or to be the "word" of God. They do claim to be useful and indicate that Jesus is the word of God. I am OK with that.

Scuba Pete said:

As a side note, I used to be as you are. I was also stuck on spiritual milk and was a legalist in the worst way. Only the Spirit can open your eyes to your condition.

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Whose stuck on spiritual milk according to the scriptures Scuba Pete?

1 COR. 3 [1] And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. [2] I HAVE FED YOU WITH MILK, AND NOT WITH MEAT: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. [3] For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

HEBREWS 5 [12] For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. [13] FOR EVERY ONE THAT USETH MILK IS UNSKILFUL IN THE WORD OF RIGHTEOUSNESS: FOR HE IS A BABE. [14] But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

The two above new testament scriptures point out we should be teachers of the word but everyone that uses milk is unskilful in the word.

ISAIAH 28 [9] WHOM SHALL HE TEACH KNOWLEDGE? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? THEM THAT ARE WEANED FROM THE MILK, and drawn from the breasts.[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:[11] For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.[12] To whom he said, THIS IS THE REST wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and THIS IS THE REFRESHING: yet they would not hear.

Well, in Hebrews the scripture points out we should be teachers of the Word but we just don’t get it, we are still just babes, milk drinkers. In Isaiah we see that those whom God will teach knowledge and whom he shall make to understand doctrine are those who are weaned from the milk. So who are these milk drinkers (verse 12) that dont understand doctrine? To whom he said this is the rest and the refreshing, but they refused to hear. Rest? Refreshing?

EXODUS 31 [15] Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.[16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.[17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and ON THE SEVENTH DAY HE RESTED, AND WAS REFRESHED.

Heres a scripture that speaks of a rest and a refreshing. And yes, they sure do refuse to hear that scripture.

GOT MILK?

BrasenWall said:

Whose stuck on spiritual milk according to the scriptures Scuba Pete?

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In my most humble opinion: You. You seem to be stuck in a legalistic approach to Christianity. When you finally figure out that all you need is "love", you'll be close to being able to truly teach others about the freedom we have in Christ. Those who rely on OT scriptures, only show that they still have the veil pulled over your eyes.

Quote Scuba
"Those who rely on OT scriptures, only show that they still have the veil pulled over your eyes".

2 TIM. 3 [14] But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; [15] And THAT FROM A CHILD THOU HAST KNOWN THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, WHICH ARE ABLE TO MAKE THEE WISE UNTO SALVATION through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Well above scripture is from the new testament. The only scriptures around at the time these people were "childs" was the old testament. This new testament scriptures says that the old testament scriptures make "you wise unto salvation". Hmmm... i believe this new testament scripture.

More good scripture

MATT.13 [51] Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord. [52] Then said he unto them, Therefore EVERY SCRIBE WHICH IS INSTRUCTED UNTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN is like unto a man that is an householder, which BRINGETH FORTH OUT OF HIS TREASURE THINGS NEW AND OLD.

BrasenWall said:

This new testament scriptures says that the old testament scriptures make "you wise unto salvation". Hmmm... i believe this new testament scripture.

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I didn't say they were USELESS, they just aren't binding any more.

II Corinthian 3:14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. NIV

If you are seeking to be justified in Christ by adhering to OT laws, you are simply MISSING the point.

Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. NIV

Galatians 2:17 "If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker. 19 For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" NIV

Galatians 3:23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. that we might be justified by faith. NIV

Scuba Pete said:

In my most humble opinion: You. You seem to be stuck in a legalistic approach to Christianity.

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Well Scuba Pete
In a way i guess i am. I realize that Jesus alone is our sacrifice for sin.It is by GRACE you are saved. Without Him we are not forgiven.I also realize we are to follow His Words. When He says over and over and over to keep the commandments, i gotta believe He means it. What do you plan on saying to my master when you stand before Him? Lord Lord, save me me Lord. Im an illegallist, i did nothing you commanded me to do.

Lets simply look at 1 scripture. Rev.22

GEN.3 [22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

In the beginning of the good book scripture says, we must take of the tree of life and live forever

PROVERBS 13 [12] Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is A TREE OF LIFE.[13]Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed: but HE THAT FEARETH THE COMMANDMENT SHALL BE REWARDED.[14] The law of the wise is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death.

In the middle of the book scripture speaks of the tree of life and is reserved for those who keep the commandments and the law.

REVELATION 22 [13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.[14] BLESSED ARE THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, THAT THEY MAY HAVE RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE, AND MAY ENTER IN THROUGH THE GATES INTO THE CITY.[15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.[16] I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

In the end of the book (new testament) scripture says you may take hold of the tree of life and enter into the city (1000yr. period of rest) only if you keep the commandments.

ISAIAH 44 [6] Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I AM THE FIRST, AND I AM THE LAST; and beside me there is no God. [7] And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them. [8] Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. [9] THEY THAT MAKE A GRAVEN IMAGE ARE ALL OF THEM VANITY; and their delectable things SHALL NOT PROFIT; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.

The First and the Last really hates those graven images. Commandment number two. NO PROFIT THERE

ISAIAH 48 [12] Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I AM THE FIRST, I ALSO AM THE LAST. [13] Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together. [14] All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The Lord hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans. [15] I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous. [16] Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I HAVE NOT SPOKEN IN SECRET from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. [17] Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am THE LORD THY GOD WHICH TEACHETH THEE TO PROFIT, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. [18] O THAT THOU HADST HEARKENED TO MY COMMANDMENTS! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

In the old testament the First and the Last tells us to keep the 10 commandments.
THERE IS PROFIT THERE

REV. 22 [13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, THE FIRST AND THE LAST. [14] BLESSED ARE THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

In the new testament the First and the Last tells us to keep the 10 commandments.

JEREMIAH 16 [14] Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that it shall no more be said, The Lord liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; [15] But, THE LORD LIVETH, THAT BROUGHT UP THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL FROM THE LAND OF THE NORTH, AND FROM ALL THE LANDS WHITHER HE HAD DRIVEN THEM: AND I WILL BRING THEM AGAIN INTO THEIR LAND THAT I GAVE UNTO THEIR FATHERS. [16] Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the Lord, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks. [17] For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes. [18] And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcases of their detestable and abominable things. [19] O Lord, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, THE GENTILES SHALL COME UNTO THEE FROM THE ENDS OF THE EARTH, AND SHALL SAY, SURELY OUR FATHERS HAVE INHERITED LIES, VANITY, AND THINGS WHEREIN THERE IS NO PROFIT. [20] Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they are no gods? [21] Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is The Lord.

Seems the gentiles have been decieved
The above scripture is for the LATTER DAYS, when Gods people are gathered together and brought to the land promised to their fore fathers. The 1000 year period of rest spoken of in Revelations. Seems that the “many” gentiles have taken the wrong path. NO PROFIT THERE

LUKE 13 [23] Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,[24] Strive to ENTER IN AT THE STRAIT GATE: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.[25] When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:[26] Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.[27] But he shall say,I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

If it were true that alls you needed to do to be saved was to say ya believe in Christ, not only the “many” would be saved but the all. So why does the scripture above say quite the opposite?

MATT.7 [13] Enter ye in at THE STRAIT GATE: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

So what are we to do, that we may enter the strait gate which leads to life?

REV.22 [14] Blessed are they that DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may ENTER IN THROUGH THE GATES into the city.

Pretty simple. Obey God and keep His 10 commandments. What about Gods sabbath day? The 4th commandment. Can anyone show me in the new testament where God changed His sabbath day? NO WAY!

JER.17 [24] And it shall come to pass, if ye diligently hearken unto me, saith the LORD, to bring in no burden through the gates of this city on the sabbath day, but hallow the sabbath day, to do no work therein;[25] Then shall there enter into the gates of this city kings and princes sitting upon the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they, and their princes, the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: and this city shall remain for ever.

I only know of one city which will remain for ever. According to the above scripture the sabbath will be being kept by those who are to enter the gates to the city. Says the same thing in Rev.22. All ten, including the 4th.

Have a nice day

Oh Yeah
The 1000 yr period of rest... Believers will STILL be keeping His sabbath

Isaiah 66:21-24
And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the Lord. [22] For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. [23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord. [24] And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Aint the Word of God Great!

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Well, i guess those that believe the above scripture alreay knew that

DallasApple said:

Why cant we pick and choose the day we rest?...Are we robots???

Love

Dallas

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The fact is you can pick and choose
You can pick and choose as to keep Gods sabbath
You can pick and choose as whether to kill
You can pick and choose as to whether you commit adultry

Its your choice, but you must live or die with your choice

AND IT IS YOUR CHOICE

choose wisely