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Question about Christianity

A

and_1_moves

New Member
Hi,

Im not a christian but I have been studying about ur religion for some time right now.

I have a couple of questions to ask.

How can u say Jesus is a god? i dont think the creator of mankind and the ruler of the universe will bring himself down to a lower rank (human). and if he was really god..how can he die? i didnt know a god can die.

I have another question about a really small topic.
WIne was scientifically proven bad for the body. y would jesus allow it? y would he drink it? isnt he a god?

I have another question.
How can u guys still concider the bible holy if it has been changed several times?

These are some doubts i have about christianity. Can anyone change my mind?
 
P

precept

Member
and_1_moves said:
Hi,
Im not a christian but I have been studying about ur religion for some time right now.
I have a couple of questions to ask.
How can u say Jesus is a god? i dont think the creator of mankind and the ruler of the universe will bring himself down to a lower rank (human). and if he was really god..how can he die? i didnt know a god can die.

I have another question about a really small topic.
WIne was scientifically proven bad for the body. y would jesus allow it? y would he drink it? isnt he a god?
I have another question.
How can u guys still concider the bible holy if it has been changed several times?

These are some doubts i have about christianity. Can anyone change my mind?
Click to expand...


No one can make you change your mind against your will. The God of the Universe was not made out of the common materials "wood" and "stone". The God of the universe has to be more powerful than the hands that carved its own God; or how than that which is carved be more powerful than he who did the carving? While the god you serve may or may not be carved; yet any god that is as limited as the nature we all share, will be as powerful/powerless as is nature. Such a god is undeserving of respect, seeing as not even this god knows its own powers.

The Christian God is All Powerful; and so much so that He has no obligation to prove His existence to the humans He created. We are His subjects and we obey His every command because we know that like a Loving Dather He desires only the beast for His children.
Because our God is All Powerful, He can selectively "lay down His life" and "take it up again" as He so chooses aand as He has done. Unlike the pagan gods carved with human hands that are subject to destruction at the hands of the very humans to whom they owe their existence; the Christian God alone creates and destroys; all on His own initiative.

The Christian God chose to die in order to redeem the humans He created. The redemption of humans became necessary because humans had selected to serve God's arch-ememy, Satan, instead of serving God. Satan exacted a price for the humans who decided to return to serving God; and the price was the laying down of the life of the Christian God at the hands of the humans He had created. This voluntary sacrificing of Himself at the hands of His own humans bought the salvation of any human from the snare of satan; if such humans' desire is to serve God.

Your concern about "wine" is unfounded. Grapes are healthy for food and when fermented into wine still has its healthy anti-oxidant properties. These properties are very essential in helping the human body reduce its bad cholesterol levels and they also aid in fighting cancer causing genes. Wine taken in large amounts have the effect of inebriating the user; and so is an intoxicant, but only when taken in quantities over and above the limits of the user.

Your last query re the "accuracy of the bible" its having been wriiten by humans[not changed many times as you have said]; But in fact the bible by its being written by forty different humans who had no contact literarily and who over a period of more than fifteen hundred years, wrote the scriptures as we know it...yet when you read its sacred pages you cannot find in its sacred pages a line of sacred thought that contradicts another line of sacred thought. It is from this sacred,divinely Authored Book that we learn about our God. He told us in His book how to escape the snare of His arch-enemy, Satan. And we Christians are forever indebted to Our God and His Son Jesus for helping us escape from eternal damnation. Eternal damnation is the reward of all who choose to remain in the service of God's arch-enemy, Satan.

I challenge you that when you read the holy book of any visionary that you will find a myriad of contradictions; however, if you read the Holy Book of the Christian God, you cannot find ONE CONTRADICTORY WORD.Which is more than proof that the Christian God is the true God..and that His book the Holy bible is the only sacred book that us humans must read.


precept
 
Jaymes

Jaymes

The cake is a lie
Since I can't answer any of the other questions from a Christian perspective, I will answer the wine question.

One glass of red wine three to four times a week actually helps prevent cancer. Of course, drinking too much will do a number on your liver, but moderate drinking of red wine is healthy. The compound that blocks what the cancer needs to survive is also found in peanuts, raspberries, and the red grapes the wine is made from if you don't like the idea of drinking. ;)

EDIT: Curse you, precept! You got to the wine question before me. :149: I blame it on me taking time to hunt down a source. :D
 
P

precept

Member
Correction...."Dather He desires only the beast for His children. "

This line should read "Father" not "Dather" and "best" not "beast".

Sorry for the errors.


precept
 
Halcyon

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
precept said:
I challenge you that when you read the holy book of any visionary that you will find a myriad of contradictions; however, if you read the Holy Book of the Christian God, you cannot find ONE CONTRADICTORY WORD.Which is more than proof that the Christian God is the true God..and that His book the Holy bible is the only sacred book that us humans must read.


precept
Click to expand...
Um... right form the start there's a massive contradiction, in genesis 1 god creates man and woman at the same time, in genesis 2 god creates man first and then later woman from man. There goes the proof.
 
oracle

oracle

Active Member
Halcyon said:
Um... right form the start there's a massive contradiction, in genesis 1 god creates man and woman at the same time, in genesis 2 god creates man first and then later woman from man. There goes the proof.
Click to expand...
It's not actually a contradiction. The interpretation of it is the contradiction. Adam (mankind) consisted of both a feminine and masculine quality that was created in the image of God. Later God split this in two, as he took Eve from the side of Adam, so you have mankind with a twofold nature. From what I understand, now I'm not saying my interpretation is correct, Adam is like an objective reality, being dust and blood, and Eve is what makes Adam alive and animate, like the conscious mind possibly. The spliting of the two makes a distinction between objective and subjective, outside and inside. Before this, Adam was originally androgyne and in God's image. Ultimately if you want the deeper interpretation, you would have to study real Kabbalah and the hebrew language, sources like the Zohar and Sefer Yitzera.
 
Halcyon

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
But surely oracle that is an interpretation that's purpose is to remove a contradiction, it is a laterally thought out view of the writings much the same as the myth of lilith, taken literally which is how many people read the bible, there is no evidence of the androgyny of adam.
 
M

may

Well-Known Member
and_1_moves said:
Hi,

Im not a christian but I have been studying about ur religion for some time right now.

I have a couple of questions to ask.

How can u say Jesus is a god? i dont think the creator of mankind and the ruler of the universe will bring himself down to a lower rank (human). and if he was really god..how can he die? i didnt know a god can die.

I have another question about a really small topic.
WIne was scientifically proven bad for the body. y would jesus allow it? y would he drink it? isnt he a god?

I have another question.
How can u guys still concider the bible holy if it has been changed several times?

These are some doubts i have about christianity. Can anyone change my mind?
Click to expand...
Answering you from the bible. Jesus didnt say he was God , he said he was Gods son and inferior to him
(matthew 3;17) (john 8;42)( john 14;28 )(john 20;17 )(1corinthians 11;3) (1corinthians 15; 28.)christ was first of Gods creations,( colossians 1;15)( Revelation 3;4),also as Jensa said ,in small amounts wine is good for us(Ecclesiastes 9;7)psalm 104; 15)
 
A

andddd

Member
ohh ic.. but how come the story of jesus is different in Islam and in Judaism?
In islam..it says that jesus was passing a message that God is one and that he is his messenger. not his son. It also says that it was not jesus that was crusified..it was his friend who betrayed him.. man y did those ppl have to change the bible??!?!?! im confused!!!

 
scitsofreaky

scitsofreaky

Active Member
It is different because they each needed a story to meet their needs The christians needed a savior. And since the Muslims couldn't deny the existence of Jesus, so they made him a prophet.
 
No*s

No*s

Captain Obvious
and_1_moves said:
Hi,

Im not a christian but I have been studying about ur religion for some time right now.

I have a couple of questions to ask.

How can u say Jesus is a god? i dont think the creator of mankind and the ruler of the universe will bring himself down to a lower rank (human). and if he was really god..how can he die? i didnt know a god can die.
Click to expand...

The view of God from reasoning up to Him would make that impossible, but remember, death is not non-existance in our view. It is a lesser state of existance, one corrupted away from its natural state. Christ, in dieing, entered that state, and by bringing the divine down to it, was able to render it powerless. The Christian hymn goes: "Christ has trampled down death by death, and upon those in the tombs bestowed life." Death couldn't handle God ;).

If you remember the Christian conception of death, then this isn't nearly as much of a problem. However, the rank aspects you mentioned is simply this: God abased Himself for our sakes. It was an abject self-humiliation.

[quote_1_moves]I have another question about a really small topic.
WIne was scientifically proven bad for the body. y would jesus allow it? y would he drink it? isnt he a god?[/quote]

I don't believe this.

and_1_moves said:
I have another question.
How can u guys still concider the bible holy if it has been changed several times?
Click to expand...

I don't think it has been changed as radically as some people will assess. However, rather than debate that, I will simply point this out: Christianity is not based on the Bible. The Bible is based on it ;).

and_1_moves said:
These are some doubts i have about christianity. Can anyone change my mind?
Click to expand...

Nope, but I can have fun answering questions. I have the distinct feeling that nobody's mind will be changed in this conversation.
 
oracle

oracle

Active Member
Halcyon said:
But surely oracle that is an interpretation that's purpose is to remove a contradiction, it is a laterally thought out view of the writings much the same as the myth of lilith, taken literally which is how many people read the bible, there is no evidence of the androgyny of adam.
Click to expand...
The androgyny of man is something very well taught in Kabbalah, called Adam Kadmon. What's myth is the story of Adam and Eve. From what I understand, Zakar comes from an acient root that means outer, while Neqebah comes from a root meaning inner. It's not talking about male and female gender. It's specifying male and female attributes, for example it could be refering to physical and spiritual, but it doesn't specify exactly except that it's in the image of God. God is neither male or female, or both [which means the same thing, asexuality]. From what I know, the contradiction comes from interpretation, from semantics. It's how you interpret the meaning that becomes contradictive. The word that has been interpreted as "man" in the english translations of Genesis, is actually the same word "Adam". From what I understand, Adam is mankind, or it is the personified objective reality of mankind, that being dust. But, I mean of course you cannot disregard the literal. Even trying to interpret the story as symbols and metaphors can be unreliable. Many things actually have a geometric value, of which the literary metaphor, and then the literal story derives from.

Of course, you have errors in Genesis such as occurances that are not in chronological order, but Genesis was not written to be in such order because that is not the point that Genesis is trying to address.
 
A

andddd

Member
hey scitsofreaky...do u have any proof that ur story about jesus is true? dont concider the bible..because it has been changed several times..and once something is changed..I have no reason to beleive that it is true.

Proof of Jesus is a prophet is as follows:- the quran (not changed since the prophet (p) died..says so. :) vbmenu_register("postmenu_124071", true);
 
Pah

Pah

Uber all member
andddd said:
hey scitsofreaky...do u have any proof that ur story about jesus is true? dont concider the bible..because it has been changed several times..and once something is changed..I have no reason to beleive that it is true.

Proof of Jesus is a prophet is as follows:- the quran (not changed since the prophet (p) died..says so. :) vbmenu_register("postmenu_124071", true);
Click to expand...
The bible has not changed, allowing for mistranslations, since the earliest known surviving documents. Fragments are confirmed in individual manuscripts and "collections" are confirmed for over 1700 years. I would be interested to know what fragments, what books, and what complete quran are the earliest?
 
D

dan

Well-Known Member
When the Bible poured from the pens of the ancient prophets it was pure and unadulterated. Over the years lack of authority, lack of understanding, and alterior motives have corrupted the texts and the translations. The oldest existing New Testament manuscripts we have are from almost three hundred years after the death of Christ. We have two sources for the O.T. texts. The Mesoretic texts are Hebrew, but much older than the Septuegint texts (translated Greek). The accuracy of both of these manuscripts is called into question; however the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls corroborates much of our current Old Testament (those texts may also be corrupt). Scriptures were manipulated and changed to fulfill the agendas of powerful sects all the way back to the Babylonian captivity.

Wine is bad for you. Back during Christ's time it was consumed (on occasion) because of the destructive attributes it possessed towards bacteria that ran rampant on the body. There are at least thirteen different Hebrew words translated "wine" in the O.T. About half of them connote a drink containing alcohol. They developed a pill a long, long time ago that provides the same health benefits as wine. They call it a grape.
 
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scitsofreaky

scitsofreaky

Active Member
andddd said:
hey scitsofreaky...do u have any proof that ur story about jesus is true? dont concider the bible..because it has been changed several times..and once something is changed..I have no reason to beleive that it is true.

Proof of Jesus is a prophet is as follows:- the quran (not changed since the prophet (p) died..says so. :) vbmenu_register("postmenu_124071", true);
Click to expand...
I should point out that I am not christian, and I was trying to point out that one story is as (un)likely as the other.
 
P

precept

Member
Halcyon said:
Um... right form the start there's a massive contradiction, in genesis 1 god creates man and woman at the same time, in genesis 2 god creates man first and then later woman from man. There goes the proof.
Click to expand...

Genesis chapter 1 is the chronology of the events that constituted the creation of the world. All of God's creation took all of six days as stated in Genesis chapter 1. Genesis chapter 2 begins with a review of the total completed creation..."Thus the heavens and the earth were created, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made." Genesis 2:1-3

The rest of Genesis chapter 2 is a reviewing of His creating "plant life" and "animal life" with the exact details of how He created the human species.

In Genesis chapter 1 God created both humans and animal life on the sixth day. In Genesis chapter 2 the account of how He did it, is chronicled.

Genesis 2:7..."And the Lord God formed man "of the dust of the ground"....

Genesis 2:9..."And out of the ground" made the Lord God to grow every tree....

Genesis 2:19..."And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air" .....

In verse 26 of Genesis chapter 1 "God made man [a generic term] as in the human male from the family of humans and who was made the first representative of the human species. This male of the human species was made in the likeness of God; as would be any other human, male or female.

Eve, though made according to you, [not in genesis chapter 1, but in Genesis chapter 2] shares in being made in God's likeness and God's image...and she like Adam was given "dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth." Genesis 1:26
But now note verse 27 of chapter 1 iin which the female of the human species is mentioned..."So God created [generic man] in His own image, in the image of God created He "him" male[Adam] and female[Eve] created He them."

Your argument for contradiction falls; if only because both Genesis chapters 1 and 2 document the creation of the male of humanity and the female of humanity. As to how God created the male of humanity as against how He created the female of humanity could only be seen in contradiction if in one account he created the female different from how He created the female in another given accoiunt.

Until you can show this to be the case--Your argument falls.
 
oracle

oracle

Active Member
dan said:
Wine is bad for you. Back during Christ's time it was consumed (on occasion) because of the destructive attributes it possessed towards bacteria that ran rampant on the body. There are at least thirteen different Hebrew words translated "wine" in the O.T. About half of them connote a drink containing alcohol. They developed a pill a long, long time ago that provides the same health benefits as wine. They call it a grape.
Click to expand...
From what I have been told it was also a time when purified water was not in abundance. So you probably have rampant diseases. I can see where wine would be held with importance, not necassarily because it was an alcholic beverage.
 
D

dan

Well-Known Member
oracle said:
From what I have been told it was also a time when purified water was not in abundance. So you probably have rampant diseases. I can see where wine would be held with importance, not necassarily because it was an alcholic beverage.
Click to expand...
Exactly. It's unnecessary these days, and appealing to Jesus' consumption of wine hardly justifies the use of alcohol as a recreational beverage these days. The fact that we can't be sure whether or not Jesus actually speaks of alcoholic wine makes it all the more unreasonable to base your conviction on that one fact. The translation from Aramaic (Jesus' spoken language) to Greek (the language of the New Testament) robs us of the cognition of exactly what type of "wine" Jesus drank.
 
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