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Any truth to this?

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
I am not even convinced that Satan was a physical or spiritual being, but "The Accuser" or the "the Tempter". Which may mean that when Satan "enters" someone, they are giving into temptation to do something not approved of. Which may also explain why Jesus said to Peter "get thou behind me (go away), Satan".
All flesh is subject to temptation, and it isn't always possible for us to withstand it.
 

idea

Question Everything
Temptation serves its purpose. Perhaps “free will” requires “willpower” – that you can do something out of pure will, and not just do it out of convenience…

So you believe that God and Satan are in a battle for our souls?

Satan wants our souls, God wants us to be free... the war was/is over agency.

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

the cause of the war:
Moses 4:
1 AND I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.


what would it take to save all mankind? It would require taking away our agency. God was not willing to do this.

The war was over our free will - God was for agency, Satan was against it.

reminds me of a hymn:
Know this, that ev’ry soul is free
To choose his life and what he’ll be;
For this eternal truth is giv’n:
That God will force no man to heav’n.

He’ll call, persuade, direct aright,
And bless with wisdom, love, and light,
In nameless ways be good and kind,
But never force the human mind.

Freedom and reason make us men;
Take these away, what are we then?
Mere animals, and just as well
The beasts may think of heav’n or hell.

May we no more our pow’rs abuse,
But ways of truth and goodness choose;
Our God is pleased when we improve
His grace and seek his perfect love.
Helaman 14:30 And now remember, remember, my brethren, that whosoever perisheth, perisheth unto himself; and whosoever doeth iniquity, doeth it unto himself; for behold, ye are free; ye are permitted to act for yourselves; for behold, God hath given unto you a knowledge and he hath made you free.
31 He hath given unto you that ye might know good from evil, and he hath given unto you that ye might choose life or death; and ye can do good and be restored unto that which is good, or have that which is good restored unto you; or ye can do evil, and have that which is evil restored unto you.

2 Nephi 10: 23 Therefore, cheer up your hearts, and remember that ye are free to act for yourselves—to choose the way of everlasting death or the way of eternal life.
 
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Yid613

Member
In Judaism Satan is firmly subservent to God & is never allowed to attain such near-omnipotent status.
A satan is any Angle whose job we would consider bad or evil. As with any Angle his will is nullified to that of G-ds.

Reish Lakish said: He is the Prosecutor he is the Evil Inclination he is the Angle of Death. - Bava Basra 16a
 
Satan can't do a single thing unless God allows him to.

1 John 4
3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
 

Kcnorwood

Well-Known Member
ἀλήθεια;1233529 said:
Satan can't do a single thing unless God allows him to.

1 John 4
3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.


In the OT Satan only did what God let him or told him to do. It's the new testement that he's doing what he pleases. Which makes me wonder if the Christians use him as a tool of fear.
 

illyena

Member
Satan has no direct power, but the power of deception and lies, when exercized by an expert hand, which he is, can become one of the strongest forces for influence and change in the secular world. Anyone can overcome this influence, but it surrounds us daily, exposure through the media, gradual lessening of morals and values, slow buildups of hatred. All of this is motivated and directed through satan and his followers, spirits that chose to follow him in the premortal realm. Satan is our brother as jesus is, it just really ****** him off when we follow God so he does what he can to influence us away from giving god our love and devotion and instead focus it away from him. personally I dont think satan cares a whit about making us evil, just about moving us away from God.
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
Which makes me wonder if the Christians use him as a tool of fear.

:yes:


I've heard Christians say something to the effect of "Satan is the god of this world"...

As if God has nothing to do with it... He's the God of some other world...

It wasn't until Christianity came along that people started worrying about things like Satan and Hell.
 

illyena

Member
:yes:


It wasn't until Christianity came along that people started worrying about things like Satan and Hell.

Cant stand the "fire and brimstone" version of the christian hell, not that the bible doesnt describe buring in eternal flames.

But isnt Hell meant to be feared? I dissasociate Hell from Satan as the two really have no direct connection other than "satan leads you to sin, sin leads you to hell".

Hell can be many things, a chain smoking addict who can never have another cigarette for the rest of eternity; seeing ones family move on while you are left behind. I believe hell will be a very individual thing. Perhaps some hells do have litteral flames, but the scriptures more refer to flames as a cleansing tool, a refiners fire, a way to rid ourselves of our imperfections.
We should fear that which would remove us from God, in that case shun satan, shun sin and fear the consequense of making choices that cause us to sin.
 

cns3e

New Member
From the book of Jude:
5 Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved 1 a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, 2 serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
 

.lava

Veteran Member
In Islam, Satan is either a trival creature, not to be taken seriously, or he will be forgiven on the last day; he can never be an ultimate threat & is no match from Allah.

this is not even close to Islam. seems like that writer did not read Qur'an.



.
 

.lava

Veteran Member
In all religions there are people who would disagree with you & I know some that do.

of course there are. but Islam is not gossip. what Islam is explained in Qur'an and this quote you sent does not match with Qur'an.


.
 

Afrikaner

New Member
You forget that everyone is as "powerful" as God, that does not mean we are creators ourselves, but that we are shadows of the Creator...and that can be open to interpretation to mean other beings like aliens may be even more like the Creator than we are....but no less loved.

On that note, exists the idea of Satan, real or not, he has turned away from God and for that has damned himself. He still has no more power over you than God has.
 

Irenicas

high overlord of sod all
Quick bit of logic!

P1: God is omnipotent
P2: God and Satan battle for the souls of mankind
C1: Satan is omnipotent

If God was omnipotent and Satan wasn't, then there could not be a battle - there could be no "contest" between an onnipotent and a non-omnipotent individual, rather like a human being couldn't feasibly threaten or contest an omnipotent God. It is clear therefore that Satan must either be omnipotent, or so close that it is almost indistinguishable from that state.

Logic man, away!

Whoooop whooop whooop
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
If God was omnipotent and Satan wasn't, then there could not be a battle - there could be no "contest" between an onnipotent and a non-omnipotent individual
Hypothetically speaking...

Of course there can... just like I can play a small child in basketball, or a younger relative in chess... Just because the end of the contest is never in doubt, doesn't mean that the contest has not occured...
 

cns3e

New Member
Quick bit of logic!

P1: God is omnipotent
P2: God and Satan battle for the souls of mankind
C1: Satan is omnipotent

If God was omnipotent and Satan wasn't, then there could not be a battle - there could be no "contest" between an onnipotent and a non-omnipotent individual, rather like a human being couldn't feasibly threaten or contest an omnipotent God. It is clear therefore that Satan must either be omnipotent, or so close that it is almost indistinguishable from that state.

Logic man, away!

Whoooop whooop whooop

Your logic is flawed. Just because God is omnipotent and in a battle with the Devil doesn't make the devil omnipotent. And is GOd actually battling? Or is he allowing humans, with free will, to decide for themselves if they live a rightous life or follow the devil. I see the devil as an agent of action while GOd gave us guidelines to follow and tells us to do the work.
 

crystalonyx

Well-Known Member
Quick bit of logic!

P1: God is omnipotent
P2: God and Satan battle for the souls of mankind
C1: Satan is omnipotent

If God was omnipotent and Satan wasn't, then there could not be a battle - there could be no "contest" between an onnipotent and a non-omnipotent individual, rather like a human being couldn't feasibly threaten or contest an omnipotent God. It is clear therefore that Satan must either be omnipotent, or so close that it is almost indistinguishable from that state.

Logic man, away!

Whoooop whooop whooop

Or more likely, neither exist.
 
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