Hindus and Pagans

Friend Darkwater wanted a comparision of Hinduism and Paganism. For the beginning, this:

Most hindus believe in God/Gods/Goddesses. There are only a few heretics (not really, 'advaita' is a part of hinduism) like me. More than the stories of Gods, it is the morals of the stories that are important to hindus. Main-line hinduism has worship but not the rituals like in Paganism. Satan has no place in Hinduism.

Aupmanyav said:

Friend Darkwater wanted a comparision of Hinduism and Paganism. For the beginning, this:

Most hindus believe in God/Gods/Goddesses. There are only a few heretics (not really, 'advaita' is a part of hinduism) like me. More than the stories of Gods, it is the morals of the stories that are important to hindus. Main-line hinduism has worship but not the rituals like in Paganism. Satan has no place in Hinduism.

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perhaps this would be better in comparative religion? that way, the Pagans could respond in the thread and post their religious stance

this could be a very interesting thread, great idea guys!

I am a believer of Aryan Migration Theory. I do not think there is not much relationship between the indigenous Gods/Goddesses (Rama, Krishna, Shiva, Durga, etc.) with the Gods/Goddesses elsewhere. But the Aryan belief has its counterparts elsewhere around Europe and Asia (Dyaus Pitar, Dyava Prithvi, Oarnos, Varuna, etc.). Hinduism is an amalgamation of these two streams. You can read about what a famous Indian scholar (and much more than that), B. G. Tilak, has this to say about it at Lokamanya Bal Gangadhar Tilak — The Arctic Home in the Vedas — Chapter 12.

I'll let this settle down a bit first.

Satan is the Adversary,the Accuser,nothing more.

He has been bastardised by many newer religions,he is still part of the Christian Pantheon of Angels,as Samael.

Let us just call him by his proper pantheon name & his role maybe apparent.

I inlclude the Judaeo christian Pantheon of Archangels & angels as part of my Pantheonic beings.Got a big list of Pantheons too,I was shown much just all very quickly,then I was destroyed which didn't help.

Can we clarify the position of Satan to avoid any disharmony?

Hinduism can match your list, God by God, Goddess by Goddess, Divine creatures by Divine Creatures (e.g., Sheshanaga, Garuda, Nandi, and many more).

Mike182 said the thread would fare better in the Pagan Forum. What do you think about that?

Aupmanyav said:

Hinduism can match your list, God by God, Goddess by Goddess, Divine creatures by Divine Creatures (e.g., Sheshanaga, Garuda, Nandi, and many more).

Mike182 said the thread would fare better in the Pagan Forum. What do you think about that?

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I think what Mike meant was in the comparative religions forum, which would make the best sense.

Asuras as you know is quite ambiguous in hinduism. Mitra and Varuna are the original Aryan Asuras. in Hinduism, they are Gods. The two sets of two brothers, and then a king and his friend are asuras to kill whom Lord Vishnu took four avataras are Hiranyaksha - Varaha, Hiranyakashipu - Nrisimha, Ravana and Kumbhakarna - Rama, Kamsa and Chanur - Krishna. But then, these were incarnations of the gate-keepers of Vishnu's heaven, in asura form, only because of the curse of Sages. After their third deliverance, they returned to their post.

Out of these Kumbhakarna was very pious, and the youngest brother of Ravana, Vibhishana, was an outright worshiper of Lord Rama. Ravana himself was a great devotee of Lord Shiva and son of a brahmin sage. Hiranyakashipu's son, Prahlad too, was a great devotee of Lord Vishnu. Similarly another great asura, Mahabali, also was a devotee of Lord Vishnu. Though he was defeated by Vamana avatara of Lord Vishnu, but he has been promised Indraship in the next creation. Some of the female asuras married mythological characters, e.g., Hidimba who married Bhim, one of the Pandava brothers. She is worshipped in Himachal Pradesh (Kulu) as a goddess. Her son, Ghatotkachha, fought and gave his life for the Pandava cause in the Mahabharata war. Lord Krishna's grandson, Aniruddha, married the daughter of Banasur, who was a great devotee of Lord Shiva.

The others are Madhu and Kaitabha which arose before Brahma could create the universe, and Lord Vishnu killed them. Two leading asuras were killed by Goddess Durga, they were Shumbha and Nishshumbha. Chand and Munda, two asuras were killed by Goddess Durga in form of Chamunda. Another one, Andhak, was a son of Lord Shiva and Parvati, and brother to Ganesha and Kartikeya. Still another, Mahishasura, was killed by Goddess Durga. Narakasura was son of Lord Vishnu and Goddess Earth.

Then the asuras in the Aryan stories who imprisoned the sun or the cows during the winter, causing a long Arctic night, are Vritra, Vaala, Namuchi, Shambara, Kuvaya, etc. Indra, fortified by Soma, finally rescues the sun.

Finally, many asuras were step-brothers to Devas, being born to the two wives of Sage Kashyapa, Aditi giving birth to Devas, and Diti giving birth to Asuras. There was a third wife of Kashyapa, Kadru. All the three were daughters of the hindu Adam according to one story, Daksha Prajapati. Kadru is supposed to be the mother of all eagles and serpents.

There are many more asuras of lesser importance but most of them are one-time minor characters. One, Maricha, who was the brother of Ravanas father-in-law, is remembered as a good person. So good and bad both.

I do not know much about hinduism, but I thought that hinduism advocates a returning to the one god, similiar to buddhism?

It seems to me that hinduism is more about personal growth than waging war against the great satan, or america, according to some muslims.

Darkwater said:

I'll let this settle down a bit first.

Satan is the Adversary,the Accuser,nothing more.

He has been bastardised by many newer religions,he is still part of the Christian Pantheon of Angels,as Samael.

Let us just call him by his proper pantheon name & his role maybe apparent.

I inlclude the Judaeo christian Pantheon of Archangels & angels as part of my Pantheonic beings.Got a big list of Pantheons too,I was shown much just all very quickly,then I was destroyed which didn't help.

Can we clarify the position of Satan to avoid any disharmony?

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interesting. while on one hand Satan is mentioned in the Bible, i've always just assumed that it was a propaganda attempt to demonise Pagan deities like Herne or Pan.

Aupmanyav,keep it Hindu buddy as you are flowing so well.....

I only concentrate upon the 12 main Pantheon Members,which correspond with the respective planets,clusters &seperate galaxies/Universe,the 12 main astral houses & precession,as well as the 4 leaders of each astral house.

I met them all,of all time at the banquet of the gods.

Hindu is unequalled,surpassing even buddhism & Boadivista?

I am with you completely & very much looking forward to this,for better structure.

Many thanks,

Andy

Cacafire said:

I do not know much about hinduism, but I thought that hinduism advocates a returning to the one god, similiar to buddhism?

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Hinduism is not necessarily about returning to one God, and buddhism is certainly not that. In both, understanding about oneself and the universe, and conduct of actions is paramount. Hinduism understands 'dharma' as duty and righteous action (socially supportive action and not any religion). Buddhism as perhaps you know has eight-fold noble path.

Darkwater said:

Can we clarify the position of Satan to avoid any disharmony?

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I can't, because we do not know Satan. In hinduism, for most, even the soul of bad persons is part of God (never say anything bad for a dead person, the person is no more, and the soul has returned to its source). For me, and atheist advaitist hindu, there is no soul. Body is a electro-chemical factory made up of atoms (or even better energy/waves/particles). This is what makes the whole universe. There is nothing like God. Energy cannot be termed as good or bad.

I am very,very comfortable with your explanations as they flow so well from my own point of perspective Aupmanyav....

The purpose of my first 2 Astral Adventures have become reasonably apparent to me,so I am not overly bothered although it may be interesting to see if they resonate in any way with the very rich & beautiful Hindu Pantheon.

The 3rd one was this.......

I received a gift from the Celtic Pantheon,the Spear of Lugh.It is remarkable as it always hits it mark & returns to you once thrown,usually with a piece of your dead enemy attached to it.

I first threw it in Void,into a swirl aimed purely at the source of antagonism for me & it did come back to me from the swirl with my enemies dead skul attached,silver/crystal skull.

I was surprised it came back to me,it did pierce me on the shoulder & pin me against a wall.I thought someone chucked it straight back at me & wondered why the silver crystal skull was attached?

The Spear of Lugh is one of 4 magickal items which may be unique to the Celtic Pantheon?the porridge pot,a shield & another item which escapes me.It was this spear that nearly killed Ganesha,lucky I aimed for his eye & he did deflect my blow with a tusk,which I returned to him after I gave up the spear full of remorse.This sits nicely with all I know of Ganesha's broken tusk & the killing of Baldr where Loki keeps his hands clean.

Any of this ring bells?It maybe help me to describe my route to the various pantheon members I am familiar with,before finding out about all which will be very difficult.This was my starting point,When I chose one/two deity or more accurately they chose me.


Namaste

Andy

Hindus believe in many Deities that are aspects of one God but Pagans believe in more than one Gods and Goddesses. However, lots of Pagans are very much in touch with nature just like Hindus. In both religions, there are male and female aspects to Divinity. There are some Pagans who are vegetarian like Hindus and some who believe in reincarnation as well. When I take those "Which Religion Should You Be" quizzes, Hinduism and Paganism are always neck and neck among my results.

Hinduism has many deities but all are aspects of one deity. Pagans have many deities of different natures and are separate entities. Pagans could be Hindu then, because I have met quite a few that have claimed belief in one deity with separate entities. Pagan is quite a broad term to use, as many can share many beliefs with Hinduism.

Aupmanyav said:

I can't, because we do not know Satan. In hinduism, for most, even the soul of bad persons is part of God (never say anything bad for a dead person, the person is no more, and the soul has returned to its source). For me, and atheist advaitist hindu, there is no soul. Body is a electro-chemical factory made up of atoms (or even better energy/waves/particles). This is what makes the whole universe. There is nothing like God. Energy cannot be termed as good or bad.

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I was just reading your post and was wondering, isn't belief in a soul a fundamental belief of Hinduism? It is mentioned numerous times in Hinduism as atman. No soul is a belief held by Buddhism.

Darkwater said:

Can we clarify the position of Satan to avoid any disharmony?

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I have always understood the idea of a "Satan" to be a christian concept. Satan is the tempter, the medium of evil and "sin," and the reason for sin being introduced according to a large part of christianity (probably not completely all of christianity) due to the apple in the garden being introduced. Some wiccans call themselves "Satanic Witches," because they sort of inverted christianity and integrated other wiccan or pagan ideals, focusing on the christian deity "Satan." Lots of wiccans/pagans view the idea of Satan to be complete fiction. They acknowledge Pan or Set, but Pan or Set or other similar dieties have nothing to do with "Satan." They represent the darker side of human nature/ nature in general. Very masculine, very dark, very unpretty, which is a part of life and must be acknowledged and respected to maintain balance.

Cacafire said:

I do not know much about hinduism, but I thought that hinduism advocates a returning to the one god, similiar to buddhism?

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Buddhism seeks to attain "nirvana," which is the extinguishing of all desires and attatchments which cause suffering. It is a non-theistic path (yes I got it right this time! Non- NOT neo- lmao).

Hinduism is monotheistic and believes Brahman is everything. The different physical and spiritual (dieties) manefestations of everything are just different expressions of Brahman. You know if you break anything down far enough everything is the same, ->atoms. Think of Brahman like you think of atoms. If I remember correctly, hindus just want to increase thier awareness and closeness of Brahman, through creating good karma and expelling the bad. I need someone to check and make sure what I just said is correct though. I think it is.

It seems to me that hinduism is more about personal growth than waging war against the great satan, or america, according to some muslims.

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Yeah, hinduism is great. Hindus are some of the most consistently all time sweetest people ever. I am going to delve depper into it one day. It my favorite out of all eastern religions, well i dunno, Taoism is probably right there with it. If you ever get a chance go to a Hindu temple. It is an experience.:rainbow1:

Mjolnir said:

I was just reading your post and was wondering, isn't belief in a soul a fundamental belief of Hinduism? It is mentioned numerous times in Hinduism as atman. No soul is a belief held by Buddhism.

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You are right, most hindus believe in Soul and God. Many consider soul to be a part of God and unpollutable. Most 'advaitists' (non-dualists, a part of hindu philosophy) believe that Soul and God are one and the same (the part also is the whole).

The invocation prayer of "Isha Upanishad" (a total of 18 verses) says:

'Purnamadah, Purnamidam, Purnat Purnamudachyate;
Purnasya Purnamadaya, Purnameva vasishyate.'
That is whole (Brahman), this is whole (Body), this whole has arisen from that whole;
If this whole is added to that whole, what remains is still whole.

But then, it is not necessary to consider Brahman as God, personal or impersonal. It is also considered just the warp and the whoof of the whole universe, the energy/substance, the substrate. I belong to this category. This Brahman does not need to be worshiped but only understood.

Isha Upanishad goes to say:

'In dark are those who worship the manifest, in greater darkness are those who worship the unmanifest'

Another Upanishad says:

'Brahma Veda Brahmaiva Bhavati'
Those who come to know Brahman, verily, become Brahman.
(They realize what they themselves are, the substrate of the universe)
Best regards,

Saint Tigeress said:

Hinduism is monotheistic and believes Brahman is everything. The different physical and spiritual (dieties) manefestations of everything are just different expressions of Brahman. You know if you break anything down far enough everything is the same, ->atoms. Think of Brahman like you think of atoms. If I remember correctly, hindus just want to increase thier awareness and closeness of Brahman, through creating good karma and expelling the bad. I need someone to check and make sure what I just said is correct though. I think it is.experience.:rainbow1:

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You are right to a great extent. According to an atheist like me, Brahman is like atoms or even better energy/substance - wave/partical. Many other hindus would like the closeness to Brahman, but they have yet to understand that they are themselves it (energy/substance - wave/particle). This is very clearly stated in our books which say: 'Aham Brahmasmi' (I am Brahman), 'Tat Twam Asi (Thou art that), 'Sarve Khalvidam Brahma' (All percieved here is Brahman), 'Brahma Satyam Jagan-mithya' (Brahman is the truth, percieved is illusion). This, of course, is about personal beliefs. Hinduism accepts many and never fetters them. The advaitists (non-dualists), theists (dualists - there are many varieties of these), polytheists, atheists, are all welcome.

However, there is a lowest common denominator, and that is 'dharma' (duty and righteous action or you can say socially acceptable behavious). No hindu can disregard that. That is the measuring scale. Best regards,

Aupmanyav said:

You are right to a great extent. According to an atheist like me, Brahman is like atoms or even better energy/substance - wave/partical. Many other hindus would like the closeness to Brahman, but they have yet to understand that they are themselves it (energy/substance - wave/particle). This is very clearly stated in our books which say: 'Aham Brahmasmi' (I am Brahman), 'Tat Twam Asi (Thou art that), 'Sarve Khalvidam Brahma' (All percieved here is Brahman), 'Brahma Satyam Jagan-mithya' (Brahman is the truth, percieved is illusion). This, of course, is about personal beliefs. Hinduism accepts many and never fetters them. The advaitists (non-dualists), theists (dualists - there are many varieties of these), polytheists, atheists, are all welcome.

However, there is a lowest common denominator, and that is 'dharma' (duty and righteous action or you can say socially acceptable behavious). No hindu can disregard that. That is the measuring scale. Best regards,

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That reminds me of this verse I always love to quote from the Vedas...