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does satan actually exist?

may

Well-Known Member
Satan’s​
Time Is Short!





Satan’s influence on earth is temporary. Jehovah will not tolerate satanic rule much longer! Soon the Devil will be put out of action. A new ruler will take control of the earth, a righteous king chosen by God himself. That King is Jesus Christ. Concerning his enthronement in heaven, Revelation says: "The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord [Jehovah] and of his Christ." (Revelation 11:15) Bible chronology, together with the fulfillment of Scriptural prophecy, proves that this event took place in the year 1914.—Matthew 24:3, 6, 7.​

The Bible also describes what happened shortly after Jesus’ enthronement. It says: "War broke out in heaven: Michael [Jesus Christ] and his angels battled with the dragon [Satan the Devil], and the dragon and its angels battled but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him."—Revelation 12:7-9.​

What would be the result of Satan’s expulsion from heaven? Those in heaven could rejoice, but what about the earth’s inhabitants? "Woe for the earth and for the sea," says Revelation 12:12, "because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time." Indeed, the casting of Satan out of heaven has brought woe to the earth.

 

Master Vigil

Well-Known Member
Hmmm... Ok, so satan is a god. A god of this world, and a god that allows humans to think for themselves, as well as "gods" enemy? Is that somewhat correct? If so, than I suppose no. There is no "one" spirit that controls this world. The same spirit that controls this world controls all worlds. There is no enemy. The idea of "the enemy" only exists within the dualistic conceptualization of the human mind. Spirits do not act the way humans do, so there is no competition between spirits, there is no need for power with the spirits. Does that make sense? It seems the whole framework for theistic satanism is based on the judeo christian framework of the spiritworld. Which I don't agree with. They give too many human characteristics to the spirits, god, etc... That just isn't the case.

And about the calling of the spirits... Asking the spirits for help is not disrespectful, because it leaves the decision up to the spirits. But making it your decision is extremely disrespectful.

I hope this makes sense.
 

DianeVera

Member
Master Vigil said:
Hmmm... Ok, so satan is a god. A god of this world, and a god that allows humans to think for themselves, as well as "gods" enemy? Is that somewhat correct? If so, than I suppose no. There is no "one" spirit that controls this world. The same spirit that controls this world controls all worlds. There is no enemy. The idea of "the enemy" only exists within the dualistic conceptualization of the human mind. Spirits do not act the way humans do, so there is no competition between spirits, there is no need for power with the spirits. Does that make sense?
It seems the whole framework for theistic satanism is based on the judeo christian framework of the spiritworld. Which I don't agree with. They give too many human characteristics to the spirits, god, etc... That just isn't the case.
My framework is polytheistic, not dualistic/duotheistic. I see Satan/Azazel and the Christian "God" (whom I don't see as the true cosmic God) as two of the many gods.l

In many religions around the world, there are gods who don't like each other. For example, in the African diaspora religions, the goddesses Yemaya and Oya are thought not to get along with each other, and likewise two male gods (I don't remember their names offhand).

Now, in the African Diaspora religions, humans aren't obligated to take sides, but just to avoid getting caught in the middle. (For example, if you have altars to both Yemaya and Oya, you are supposed to have them on opposite sides of the house, as far away from each other as possible.) I somewhat similarly don't feel that people are OBLIGATED to take sides regarding Azazel vs. the Christian "God," though some may choose to do so.

Perhaps the idea of quarrels among the gods is too anthropomorphic. However, I see no reason to assume that the gods are one big happy family either -- an opposite anthropomorphic assumption. Perhaps the idea of quarrels among the gods should be taken as a metaphor for the idea that some kinds of spiritual energies just don't mix well, or something. Whatever. I'm not attached to a literal interpretation.

And about the calling of the spirits... Asking the spirits for help is not disrespectful, because it leaves the decision up to the spirits. But making it your decision is extremely disrespectful.
Agreed.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Diane,

just tell us what you mean. I don't want to go traipsing over the internet to read your "articles". We come here to discuss issues HERE not on YOUR site.

Satan is here and now, and our lives are affected here and now. It's a shame how he has decieved %98+ of the US population. Way too bad.
 

Master Vigil

Well-Known Member
DianeVera said:
My framework is polytheistic, not dualistic/duotheistic. I see Satan/Azazel and the Christian "God" (whom I don't see as the true cosmic God) as two of the many gods.
Understood, sorry for the misinterpretation. May I ask what you see as the true cosmic god?

DianeVera said:
Perhaps the idea of quarrels among the gods is too anthropomorphic. However, I see no reason to assume that the gods are one big happy family either -- an opposite anthropomorphic assumption. Perhaps the idea of quarrels among the gods should be taken as a metaphor for the idea that some kinds of spiritual energies just don't mix well, or something. Whatever. I'm not attached to a literal interpretation
It is too anthropomorphic. And there is no reason for them to be a happy family, they aren't a family. Sometimes things don't go the way they should, and crazy stuff can happen. But that in no way should be attributed to the christian idea of sata, or evil. Nor should it be attributed to an idea that gods are fighting each other. High level spirits pass on the flow of nature to low level spirits, there is no competition, it just happens. If anything, the spirits are more peaceful than humans could ever dream of. That is why we should learn by their example. And that is what I teach.
 

DianeVera

Member
NetDoc said:
Diane,

just tell us what you mean. I don't want to go traipsing over the internet to read your "articles". We come here to discuss issues HERE not on YOUR site.
I'm sorry, but I just don't have enough time to type out every single aspect of my belief system. And I feel that I HAVE been typing out quite a bit here on this board, even if I don't have time to type out everything. Those who are curious enough to read more than what I've typed here can click on my links. Others certainly aren't obligated to.
 

DianeVera

Member
Master Vigil said:
Understood, sorry for the misinterpretation. May I ask what you see as the true cosmic god?
I see the true cosmic God as utterly impersonal.

It is too anthropomorphic. And there is no reason for them to be a happy family, they aren't a family. Sometimes things don't go the way they should, and crazy stuff can happen. But that in no way should be attributed to the christian idea of sata, or evil. Nor should it be attributed to an idea that gods are fighting each other. High level spirits pass on the flow of nature to low level spirits, there is no competition, it just happens. If anything, the spirits are more peaceful than humans could ever dream of. That is why we should learn by their example. And that is what I teach.
Well, if that's what the spirits are like in your experience, so be it, but what you say doesn't jive with a lot of traditional religions (e.g. the African Diaspora religions) which have long cultivated relationships with various spirits. And in nearly every mythology of nearly every religious culture I have ever heard of, there are quarrels amonst the gods.
 

Master Vigil

Well-Known Member
DianeVera said:
I see the true cosmic God as utterly impersonal.
Tao

DianeVera said:
Well, if that's what the spirits are like in your experience, so be it, but what you say doesn't jive with a lot of traditional religions (e.g. the African Diaspora religions) which have long cultivated relationships with various spirits. And in nearly every mythology of nearly every religious culture I have ever heard of, there are quarrels amonst the gods.
Does that make them right? I don't pretend to know what others think, I just tell you what I've been dealing with ever since I was 11, when I met my first spirit guide. And when I turned 16, and the spirit world became my own world, I saw it completely different again. You see, I don't tell you what I read in books, or what others have told me. I tell you what is within my experience to tell. Have you ever met a tree spirit once it has been cut down? Have you ever met squirrel spirit after its been run over by a car? Have you ever had hundreds of spirits need your help to get through the seasons? Through human doubt, and destruction? Have you ever met a spirit as it is passed into a new baby? Or how about underground spirits being trapped, and not able to get out? Or how about tree spirits being trapped in a house because the owner decided to cut it down while renovating the upstairs? I don't know if you have or not, but I have. It is my job. Humans understand their environment with their own perceptions. I don't claim my perception as the only perception, it is just my experience. Spirits have been given bad reputations ever since humans began to question things. Ancient shamans used to chip away parts of peoples skulls because "evil spirits" were supposedly making the person mad. That is mental illness, not possession. Thunder and lightning used to be thought of as gods fighting. We know that is not true now, the spirits are not like us. We should not put forth judgement, until we meet them personally.
 

DianeVera

Member
Master Vigil said:
Does that make them right?
Not necessarily. However, there are lots of people who claim to have had a variety of different kinds of encounters with the spirit world. I hesitate to conclude that all of them are right, but, at the same time, I hesitate to dismiss them outright either. In particular, I hesitate to completely dismiss the experiences of those with longstanding traditions of dealing with spirits, e.g. the African diaspora religions. This doesn't necessarilymean that even they are completely correct by any means, but I hesitate to dismiss their experiences and ideas outright.

I'll admit that my own experiences have been quite limited compared to yours.

However, I would suspect that no one has seen the entire elephant. (Are you familiar with the story of the blind men and the elephant?)
 

Master Vigil

Well-Known Member
I don't dismiss their experiences, because I have never been to their villages and experienced it with them. Books are written by men that go there, and tell what they think the people experience. The books are in fact the authors opinion. Who knows, what I talk about and what the African diasporas talk about could be the exact same thing. We just say it differently. Culture plays a big part on our perceptions, and humans sway that culture by our biases. Spirits don't have biases, so I think learning directly from the spirits, is easier than learning from a book. I definitely haven't seen the entire elephant, I still have spirits in space looking for aliens. I've dealt with spirits from the deep ocean, and spirits who aren't even connected to this physical realm. Don't know how much of the elephant i've seen, perhaps its only the trunk. But I can sure tell you what the trunk is like.
 

morgan

Member
Dont believe in Satan myself. I did find some years back that Satan is a Pre-Judeo Christian term that means adversary, enemy Ah-Satan. It originally from what I learned had nothing to do with an absolute "evil entity". The name Lucifer also was not supposedly the Devil either, from what I learned he is the Goddess Diana's brother and consort and together they had Aradia..this is from somewhere in Italy...but again..its just what I learned and is not set in stone....
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
One quick note about satan:

I am studying the NT in grad school right now. I have read several NT Greek grammars, and one has a rather chilling footnote which I will summarize:

"Many seminarians abandon the belief that Satan is real when they are in school. However, once you get into ministry you will discover that evil is present and resident. Learn to trust in the Lord and call upon His power in these situations."

Now this note was in a critical grammar of the New Testament. Sometimes we will pass through life protected from evil, and we become unaware of the sinister. However, when we are face to face with the pressing darkness, belief in a personal evil is no longer irrational.
 

ProfLogic

Well-Known Member
No Satan does not exists. I believe it was created similar to the boogey man in our closets and under the bed, freddie krueger, jason from Friday the thirtheen so that man is terrified to follow blindly one's wish/goal. In the old times and maybe today, anyone that did not have the same ideas or beliefs were deemed to be possessed by satan.
 

Mister_T

Forum Relic
Premium Member
NetDoc said:
Diane,

just tell us what you mean. I don't want to go traipsing over the internet to read your "articles". We come here to discuss issues HERE not on YOUR site.

Satan is here and now, and our lives are affected here and now. It's a shame how he has decieved %98+ of the US population. Way too bad.
I agree with this statement. I think people who come from an Abrahamic faith and deny the existence of Satan, are trying to sweep an unpleasant thought under the rug in hopes that it will go away.

Spiritually, there is plenty of evidence for Satan. Demon possesion is a good example.
 

Defij

Member
Yes I believe Satan is real spiritual being, thought admittedly I'm not sure exactly how to define a “spiritual being”, nobody can accurately define such an entity. As far as the “theory” that Satan was an invention of Christians to “scare” people, well that is a very weak theory indeed. First of all, the origins of Satan (at least as a known theological figure) date back far beyond early Christianity. Second of all, if you look at the early Christian writings about Satan, he is not some boogie man that will harm you if you don’t do what God (or the “Church” as this theory would contend) commands. Satan is a force acting against the Church, not as the punishment tool of the Church. If indeed they were simply inventing a boogie man, they did a horrible job, at least in the early Christian documents. Now this may have been the case later on in Church history, but that holds no validity to the true theology of Satan as described in early Christian and even earlier Jewish documents.
 
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