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Religion v Religion

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
Dude I can have 1 apple or no apples. Maybe I do not know how many apples I have. But there is no third possiblity!

What kind of apple do you have?
Arkansas Black.
Barkley Rome.
Blushing Gold.
Braeburn.
Blacktwig.
Calville Blanc d'Hiver.
Cameo.
Empire.
Gala.
Glen Seedling.
Granny Smith.
Honeycrisp.
Jonagold.
Lura Red.
McIntosh.
Mutsu.
Northern Spy.
Paul's Big Green.
Pink Lady.
Here is a site that gives not only a much larger list of types of apples, but links to much more information on specific apples:
All About Apples | Apple Varieties - Listings with description parentage, origin, season
Are you sure you have not oranges? or Grapes, or bananas?
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Greetings!

In fact, Tariq, ALL the great religions originated as monothesitic, so as I pointed out, all can indeed be viewd as true!

Best regards, :)

Bruce
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Greetings!

In fact, Tariq, ALL the great religions originated as monothesitic, so as I pointed out, all can indeed be viewd as true!

Best regards, :)

Bruce
Uhm, Hinduism?

Besides, even Judaism didn't start out monoheistic. The ancient Hebrews were henotheists, that's why the COmmandment reads "Thou shalt have no other Gods before Me."
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
The ancient Hebrews were henotheists, that's why the COmmandment reads "Thou shalt have no other Gods before Me."


Not so.

It was understood by whomever you're willing to accept as the author of the Torah that idolatrous nations were just that... idolatrous... that they were in the habit of venerating and worshiping idols... false gods.

The Jews didn't worship the gods of egypt... this doesn't mean that they didn't understand that the egyptians had their own "gods", false as they are.
 

Ulver

Active Member
Historical evidence seems to show that the Jews originated as a group of mercenaries that the Egyptians employed where upon they eventually left to form their own territory in Palestine/Israel. The Jewish religion started as polytheistic with worship of such beings as El, Baal, Asherah, and Yahweh. Later, after conflicts and inner battles, these deities were conglomerated into one with retaining the name Yahweh. At this point the Jews were practicing monolatry, i.e. the belief there are many gods, but there is only one right god. Then later with the influence of Zoroastrianism from the Persians, the Jews became monotheistic and incorporated Persian notions of Dualism (introduction of idea of Satan) and an Afterlife. From the result of this period come such biblical books as Isaiah.
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
Historical evidence seems to show that the Jews originated as a group of mercenaries that the Egyptians employed where upon they eventually left to form their own territory in Palestine/Israel. The Jewish religion started as polytheistic with worship of such beings as El, Baal, Asherah, and Yahweh. Later, after conflicts and inner battles, these deities were conglomerated into one with retaining the name Yahweh. At this point the Jews were practicing monolatry, i.e. the belief there are many gods, but there is only one right god. Then later with the influence of Zoroastrianism from the Persians, the Jews became monotheistic and incorporated Persian notions of Dualism (introduction of idea of Satan) and an Afterlife. From the result of this period come such biblical books as Isaiah.
The worship of Baal and Asherah were always considered idolatry... condemned... not good. Hardly any part of normative Judaism.

There was only ever one God. Satan in Judaism has nothing to do with dualism... Satan is an angel with a job to do.

This dualism related to Satan is a matter of Christianity, not Judaism.

Judaism was always monotheistic.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Historical evidence seems to show that the Jews originated as a group of mercenaries that the Egyptians employed where upon they eventually left to form their own territory in Palestine/Israel.
Just wondering: what's your source for this?

Other sources I've read ("The Great Transformation" by Karen Armstrong comes to mind) state that there's a seamless archaeological record for ancient Judea (indicating no culture suddenly migrated in or pushed another out), and that Jewish culture doesn't show the signs that one would have expected if it did migrate out of Egypt.
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
I thought the condemnation of Baal worship only started with Elijah, and there was Judaism before Elijah... No?

You probably only first heard of it from Elijah... perhaps because Baal worship only happened during his time.
Unless you can find me something that says Jews were worshiping Baal somewhere between Abraham and Elijah, and thought there was nothing wrong with it.
 

Ulver

Active Member
I know wikipedia isn't great, but here are two wikipedia articles with either biblical references or book references given mentioning the plural number of god/goddess worship by the Israelites. I do have books that touch on the subject and I'll get back to this thread after giving them a look through again.

Monolatry

Henotheism

@ 9-10ths- Your questioning of a source for the out of Egypt theory made me look back into the matter and I do think I may have goofed on that. My college room mate often talked about that and I may well have been thinking back to that rather than one of the books I was reading in my Old Testament courses, which was what I thought it came from. I'll have to check with him on if he has a book where he got that from, otherwise I agree it does seem the Jew had nothing to do, including origin, with Egypt.
 

Charity

Let's go racing boys !
I think everyone has to choose the religion that they feel is what they can believe. I am happy with my belief and that is all that matters to me.....If someone chooses not to believe in any religion that is fine with me also.....I can still have respect for them and I wish them well in whatever they decide.

Charity
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
I know wikipedia isn't great, but here are two wikipedia articles with either biblical references or book references given mentioning the plural number of god/goddess worship by the Israelites. I do have books that touch on the subject and I'll get back to this thread after giving them a look through again.

Monolatry

Henotheism

However, most passages of monolatrism in Hebrew scripture could also be interpreted as rhetorical devices, not an assumption of the existence of other gods. In an ancient world full of faiths and gods, the need to differentiate Hebraic monotheism from the background may explain some passages suggestive of monolatrism.

Thus saith Wikipedia.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Greetings!

M>Hinduism?

Yes, indeed!

There are Hindu writings that make it clear that God is One, and Single! His name is Brahman (not to be confused with Brahma). The others are just differing aspects of this One God.

The polytheistic aspects are later, human corruptions of the original teachings, similar to such alter alterations in other religions.

And I see your question about Judaism was already answered.

Peace, :)

Bruce
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Greetings! :)

OK, then, Buddhism. That's not inherently theistic at all.

Oh, really?!

I quote from the Buddhist scriptures:

"There is, O monks, an Unborn, Unoriginated, Uncreated, Unformed. Were there not, O monks, this Unborn, Unoriginated, Uncreated, Unformed, there would be no escape from the world of the born, originated, created, formed. Since, O monks, there is an Unborn, Unoriginated, Uncreated, Unformed, therefore is there an escape from the born, originated, created, formed. What is dependant, that also moves; what is independent does not move." (Udana 8:3)

Buddhist scriptures also speak of “gods and men.”

Sounds like a stipulation of God to me! :)

As I've pointed out before, the non-theistic strains of Buddhism are later, human alterations of the original.

Peace,

Bruce
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Even if I accepted your argument (which I don't), "gods" is poly-, not monotheistic.

However, your argument just doesn't hold water. Buddhism is inherently neutral on the God question. It can be atheistic, polytheistic, and monotheistic with equal ease.

Look, you made a mistake. Clinging to it just makes you look bad. Why not just admit it?
 

Somkid

Well-Known Member
Very simply Buddhism is atheistic that is not to say there are not some "theistic" ideas in some sects of Buddhism but they come from Hinduism and older cultural religions that have been mixed over the last 2500 years. Very simply put Buddhist epistemology does not support the existence of one or more gods. All beings are believed to have a Buddha nature, which is more or less obscured by delusions. There are devas and other sorts of non-human beings with different abilities, and there are beings in differents stages of enlightenment, it could also be said there are other worldly beings as the universe is vast, but there is no theology in Buddhism, which many consider to not even be a religion, but a philosophy as I do very much so, as does my Buddhist order and most Buddhists from China and Japan.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
I'm not arguing your right to disagree with the Buddhist scriptures.

I merely pointed out what they say.

And the fact that some branches have since become atheistic in no way changes what those scriptures said.

If you don't like that--or otherwise choose to believe something else, that's your privelege!

My point that they indicate something more holds.

Bruce
 

Somkid

Well-Known Member
I'm not arguing your right to disagree with the Buddhist scriptures.

I merely pointed out what they say.

And the fact that some branches have since become atheistic in no way changes what those scriptures said.

If you don't like that--or otherwise choose to believe something else, that's your privelege!

My point that they indicate something more holds.

Bruce

Ya know what don't tell me about Buddhism and I won't tell you about Baha'i, when you can read the teachings of the Buddha in Pali, Sanskrit, Chinese, Japanese, or anywhere other than the new age section in your local book store I might want to debate with you other than that you as a few other religions have an agenda about "telling us what they say". I have really had my fill on RF of people of other faiths telling me what Buddhism is all about, I get censored should I suggest something to another faith and my post removed. I am a former Buddhist monk of 12 years and I am currently a professor of Buddhist studies at Chiang Mai University and a professor of the Buddhist Ph.D. program at Wat Suandok in Chiang Mai Thailand so, yes I have a clue what I am talking about but ya know every man has his his breaking point and this is mine!

Other than that moderators please feel free to censor me and delete my post as this is the last one.

With kind regards and Metta
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Ya know what don't tell me about Buddhism and I won't tell you about Baha'i, when you can read the teachings of the Buddha in Pali, Sanskrit, Chinese, Japanese, or anywhere other than the new age section in your local book store I might want to debate with you other than that you as a few other religions have an agenda about "telling us what they say". I have really had my fill on RF of people of other faiths telling me what Buddhism is all about, I get censored should I suggest something to another faith and my post removed. I am a former Buddhist monk of 12 years and I am currently a professor of Buddhist studies at Chiang Mai University and a professor of the Buddhist Ph.D. program at Wat Suandok in Chiang Mai Thailand so, yes I have a clue what I am talking about but ya know every man has his his breaking point and this is mine!

Other than that moderators please feel free to censor me and delete my post as this is the last one.

With kind regards and Metta

I hope that's not true. :( I like your posts, and I hope you don't get discouraged by people like this. There is more to RF than that. I just hope you stick around. :)
 
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