• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Organized Religion

MrMorden

Member
i believe that organized religion is one of the viles of the earth. while i am a creationist and i believe in the same teaching as many who would call themselves "Christians", i am reluctant to share in their services and rituals because i dont believe they have any spiritual meaning and are more show and habit than anything else. I dont think god wants habits and weekly programs to sing his praises, but rather a person who is true to himself and does what does for spiritual reasons and for nothing else. now im not telling people to quit going to church, but i am telling them to be careful. many, including myself, will use this as an excuse to not go, which is wrong in and of itself. the verynature of what i am trying to convey is to be true to yourself. if you are not going to church because you are lazy, then dont claim otherwise. i admit that im too lazy to get on sunday morning and go to church, but that being said, i stil have reservations about the whole idea in general. how can there be so many interpretations of god, and how are they all presumed accurate by their respective followers? the answer? the answer is that i dont think there shouyld be so many different beliefs, especially when they amount to nothing to begin with. but i realize that that is a somewhat hypocritical viewpoint. i guess what im trying to say, is that while learning from the wise can be an excellent tool, one should make sure that who he is learning from is actually wise and not posing. ultimately, one should look within his/herself for answers. i believe that if one does, then God will reveal himself in the purest of forms.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
MrMorden said:
i believe that organized religion is one of the viles of the earth. while i am a creationist and i believe in the same teaching as many who would call themselves "Christians", i am reluctant to share in their services and rituals because i dont believe they have any spiritual meaning and are more show and habit than anything else. I dont think god wants habits and weekly programs to sing his praises, but rather a person who is true to himself and does what does for spiritual reasons and for nothing else. now im not telling people to quit going to church, but i am telling them to be careful. many, including myself, will use this as an excuse to not go, which is wrong in and of itself. the verynature of what i am trying to convey is to be true to yourself. if you are not going to church because you are lazy, then dont claim otherwise. i admit that im too lazy to get on sunday morning and go to church, but that being said, i stil have reservations about the whole idea in general. how can there be so many interpretations of god, and how are they all presumed accurate by their respective followers? the answer? the answer is that i dont think there shouyld be so many different beliefs, especially when they amount to nothing to begin with. but i realize that that is a somewhat hypocritical viewpoint. i guess what im trying to say, is that while learning from the wise can be an excellent tool, one should make sure that who he is learning from is actually wise and not posing. ultimately, one should look within his/herself for answers. i believe that if one does, then God will reveal himself in the purest of forms.
Hi Mr Morden;

You seem to have a well defined Idea of what you think a Religion should be like. There are somethings that you say that I find myself identifying with you; I agree with your last sentence. Perhaps you can tell us a little more about yourself, and what you have achieved in the 'look in yourself' excercise ?:)
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." - Buddha
 

groovydancer88

Active Member
I agree that people should be careful, and should think for themselves.

But if you can find a good church, one that strengthens your faith and forces you to ask difficult questions, one that will help you on your spiritual journey without simply telling you what to believe (and no reason why), then I say I see no problem with that church.

The very very difficult part is finding one of those churches!
 

MrMorden

Member
Hi Mr Morden;

You seem to have a well defined Idea of what you think a Religion should be like. There are somethings that you say that I find myself identifying with you; I agree with your last sentence. Perhaps you can tell us a little more about yourself, and what you have achieved in the 'look in yourself' excercise ?:)
actually, i dont have a viable alternative to church. i spend much of my time pondering what could work, but usually to no avail. however, i do know that traditional church isnt really working.

as far as your question about what i've found by "searching within myself", the answer is that i have found quite a bit actually. surprisingly, life's simplest things can carry the most meaning. simply observing nature for what it is can be a very revealing and rewarding exercise. being a musician, i have found deep spiritual meaning in music that i cant find anywhere else. i realize that somehow, by observing these things, i know deep down inside whats "right" and whats "wrong". i believe that all humans have the innate ability to tell the difference between right and wrong regardless one one's biblical knowledge. and this realization in itself has strengthened my faith greatly. i still have a long way to go in my neverending quest for knowledge and wisdom, but once i realized this i became ever the more closer
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
MrMorden said:
actually, i dont have a viable alternative to church. i spend much of my time pondering what could work, but usually to no avail. however, i do know that traditional church isnt really working.

as far as your question about what i've found by "searching within myself", the answer is that i have found quite a bit actually. surprisingly, life's simplest things can carry the most meaning. simply observing nature for what it is can be a very revealing and rewarding exercise. being a musician, i have found deep spiritual meaning in music that i cant find anywhere else. i realize that somehow, by observing these things, i know deep down inside whats "right" and whats "wrong". i believe that all humans have the innate ability to tell the difference between right and wrong regardless one one's biblical knowledge. and this realization in itself has strengthened my faith greatly. i still have a long way to go in my neverending quest for knowledge and wisdom, but once i realized this i became ever the more closer
Good for you! I identify completely about the music; I can't play an instrument, but I feel 'elevated' when I sing. (So do the neighbours, when they bang on the walls-Joke). It sounds to me like you're doing the right things; people advocate that there must be a 'gray' area between the black and white right and wrong. I can accept the principle, but find piutting it into practice much harder.

I am making sure that I am 'getting a taste' of as many faiths as possible; there is. after all, a mass of wisdom within all religions; I just feel that, for me, I need to not only rely on what I think, but make sure I do consider 'all avenues':)
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
PART QUOTE :Mr Morden [i believe that organized religion is one of the viles of the earth]

Sorry, one last point I forgot to mention; you might have worded the above as ....organized religion doesn't suit me......

We all have a right to our beliefs, but one of my basic precepts is to avoid hurting others. I can think of quite a few people who would be offended by that remark; you could be a little more 'diplomatic':)
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
i believe that organized religion is one of the viles of the earth.
That's only because you haven't experienced disorganized religion. :D

But in reality, I share many of your concerns. Church services were NEVER meant to be "rituals".

The first century church was designed to spread encouragement to the believers and the Gospel to non-believers.

Romans 1:11. I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make you strong-- 12 that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith.

I Corinthians 14:26 What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two--or at the most three--should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God. 29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30 And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.

Hebrews 10:23. Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. 25 Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another--and all the more as you see the Day approaching.


Those rituals you speak of have an appearance of spirituality, but in the end they provide little instruction or true encouragement for the believer.
 

MrMorden

Member
viles of the earth may be a little to harsh of a definition, but trust me when i say that i have no desire to be diplomatic. i have no desire to offend either, but only to state what i believe. it says in the bible to be either hot or cold, not lukewarm. this makes sense because being lukewarm will, many times, put you in a false comfort zone that only damages you furthur in the end.

revised statement: Organized religion is too lukewarm for my tastes
 

robtex

Veteran Member
Mr Mordon could you please qualitfy and quantify what is a "true christian" and tell me which version of the Bible you have read in its entireity and subscribe to so we can understand your perspective on this matter better.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
What matter does the "version" make? I think his apprehension at all the show is not only normal, but to be encouraged. Christianity of the first century focused on the heart, not on outward appearances.

His definition of a "true Christian" may have some bearing, but not the version of the Bible he reads.
 

MrMorden

Member
Mr Mordon could you please qualitfy and quantify what is a "true christian" and tell me which version of the Bible you have read in its entireity and subscribe to so we can understand your perspective on this matter better.
a sorta vague question, but here goes:

i realize that people will interpret things differently. it happens all the time about everything. theres nothing wrong with that. however, to interpret things so differently that you clearly obscure the true meaning of something cant be right. i struggled for the while with the idea that no one is right or wrong and that everything is subjective. this equlaed out to mean that there was a separate truth to everyone and everything. i found this to be very disconcerting, because this justified pretty much everyone's belief no matter what it was. no matter what they did, they were justified in. because if their is more than one truth, then there are infinite truths. that way i see it is that its either one or infinity, no room for two, three, or four. i realized how political of a viewpoint this was and rediculous as well. i spent some time alone pondering my own beliefes until i came to an opinion completely unbiased of anything i had experienced. i realized that organized religion was and still is, the source of all the world's troubles. when things become organized, "teams" start forming and along comes competition. however, its human nature to organize, and i agree that such things would be hard to avoid, but that doesnt make them right. organized religion obscured my sight of the world around me, and served only to bind me to a mindless ritual of getting up once a week to hear a sermon from the same, bland person. it did nothing for me spiritually, and i could not tell a spiritual uplifting in anyone else either. it seemed had for me to believe that god would magically deliver his message for 30 minutes a week, no more, no less. instead it seemed more like a show than a spiritual experience. im not bashing sermons, only the monotonous tradition of them. if a person feels as if god has something for him to say then say it, if not, then dont make somehting up and claim that it was from god.

by mny own hypocrisy i am claiming that i am right and that millions of others are wrong. this is an arrogant stance i agree, but i cant help but feel the invalidity of organized relgious practice.

a true christian? that hard to define, but i would have to say that a true christian, or in a better title, "perfect" christian, would follow all of jesus's teachings exactly as they were meant to be followed. dont tell me that its to vague to interpret only one way, because from what i see, people use that as an excuse to remain comfortable. for example, jesus tells the rich man to give up all of his money and follow him. rich people today make claims such as "well, he wasnt talking about me, my case is special", and i dont see that as so. i see jesus's invitation to the rich man in the bible as an invitation to people everywhere to not get so cought up in their material possession that they lose sight of their spirituality. it doesn't matter how rich you are, if someone needs help, help them. if that means selling your new car, why hesitate?

im not saying that if you go to church you're not a christian, you may well in fact be, it doesnt hinge on that, but i am saying that you should seek to be spiritually lifted constantly. a true christian would. if your church genuinely lifts you spiritually, then fine, but dont get too comfortable because that when people become duds
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
would follow all of jesus's teachings exactly as they were meant to be followed.
An excellent observation.

Many want to make their Christianity fit in a discrete units of time. It's a 24/7/365/rest of your life proposition, or it's not worth the hassel.
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
NetDoc said:
That's only because you haven't experienced disorganized religion. :D
That reminds me of a couple of UU jokes....

-Asked if he belonged to any organized religion, the man responded, "Oh no; I'm a Unitarian Universalist."



-Two UUs were sitting at the back of the room at a particularly raucous congregational meeting. One turned to the other and said:

"Nobody will mistake us for organized religion!"



:biglaugh:
 
Top