Justification of hate

I'll say it now...yes I openy blatanly hate christians like George Bush who seek the ruination and destruction of ALL MANKIND thrught hteir religious beliefs..

cal me a biggot if you must.......

sorry I think to seek to create "the end of days" IS WRONG......

hoomer said:

um there were other christians whining...in the origina thread...and in other threads....

shoud I be petty and name names?

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No, I felt you were restricting it to this one. My apologies.

hoomer said:

I'll say it now...yes I openy blatanly hate christians like George Bush who seek the ruination and destruction of ALL MANKIND thrught hteir religious beliefs..

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Just to be clear, there were and are many Christians who oppose Bush and all that he stands for. (Many, in fact, on this forum.) There were also a number of non-Christians that voted him into office.

To put it another way, I want don't want justification for the hatred, but why the compulsion is acceptable

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NetDoc and I were discussing, many eons ago, how a select few people were thinking it okay to do some bashing of religions other than their own, and thinking they could find reason to do so. I don't think hatred in any form is acceptable, especially not toward other human beings.

I may not be a Christian, but I think bigotry towards any group shouldn't be tolerated, especially on such a wonderful site as this. If I see it happening, I will have to open up a can of Feathers-smack-down on the offender. (I'm sure those that know me are so threatened by this! )

FeathersinHair said:

Just to be clear, there were and are many Christians who oppose Bush and all that he stands for. (Many, in fact, on this forum.) There were also a number of non-Christians that voted him into office.


NetDoc and I were discussing, many eons ago, how a select few people were thinking it okay to do some bashing of religions other than their own, and thinking they could find reason to do so. I don't think hatred in any form is acceptable, especially not toward other human beings.

I may not be a Christian, but I think bigotry towards any group shouldn't be tolerated, especially on such a wonderful site as this. If I see it happening, I will have to open up a can of Feathers-smack-down on the offender. (I'm sure those that know me are so threatened by this! )

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That's exactly what I would expect from you Feathers, and I really appreciate the comments . I would frubal you, since my fruballing impotence just resolved itself...but I can't bc I've frubaled you recently.

FeathersinHair said:

Just to be clear, there were and are many Christians who oppose Bush and all that he stands for. (Many, in fact, on this forum.) There were also a number of non-Christians that voted him into office.


)

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Oh I know that......VERY welll......

as I HAVE said frm the start:bonk:

hoomer said:

Oh I know that......VERY welll......

as I HAVE said frm the start:bonk:

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But you haven't been willing to say it without degrading the topic itself as unimportant, people who feel that it's important, and without asserting that Christians brought it on themselves. That's a lot of qualifications, and it makes it an unimportant topic that shouldn't be discussed and is the fault of the victem when it occurs.

It's pretty easy to condemn it with those qualifications...

This thread has blwon right up since yesterday.

I haven`t caught up with the entire thing but am noticing a theme running through many responses that is very nice and PC but I just don`t see any truth in it.

The theme is..
"Hatred is never justified"

Why not?
Hate is what I consider a natural human response to many injustices.
I can think of alot of hate that I would deem justifiable.

The raped woman in Ruwanda who watched her babies slaughtered before her breasts were hacked off with a machete.

The Jews who watched as Nazis led their people into the chambers.

Oh..this is silly I could go on and on justifying hatred.
Why is is unjustified in every sutuation?

I don`t get it.

linwood said:

This thread has blwon right up since yesterday.

I haven`t caught up with the entire thing but am noticing a theme running through many responses that is very nice and PC but I just don`t see any truth in it.

The theme is..
"Hatred is never justified"

Why not?
Hate is what I consider a natural human response to many injustices.
I can think of alot of hate that I would deem justifiable.

The raped woman in Ruwanda who watched her babies slaughtered before her breasts were hacked off with a machete.

The Jews who watched as Nazis led their people into the chambers.

Oh..this is silly I could go on and on justifying hatred.
Why is is unjustified in every sutuation?

I don`t get it.

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Because it will always breed more hate and more violence. The cycle never ends except where a hard stance is taken against it .

No*s said:

But you haven't been willing to say it without degrading the topic itself as unimportant, people who feel that it's important, and without asserting that Christians brought it on themselves. That's a lot of qualifications, and it makes it an unimportant topic that shouldn't be discussed and is the fault of the victem when it occurs.

It's pretty easy to condemn it with those qualifications...

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Shall I spend time and make a list of:

cutures, races, creeds, peoples, countries, continents

that have ALL been BUTCHERD for simply not being christians???

I will if you want.......though it would be long....:bonk:

No*s said:

Because it will always breed more hate and more violence. The cycle never ends except where a hard stance is taken against it .

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You might as well abolish love or compassion or disinterest.

I don`t think all hate is unhealthy, in some cases it`s definately the only healthy course for self preservation .

Answer the question No*s.
Is it morally wrong for that Ruwandan woman to hold hatred uin her heart for those that slaughtered her family, rapes tortured and mutilated her?

but you arew quite right hate is a pointless dead end emotion......

ok I strongy dislike george bush.........

I think hate...real hate,....takes a lot of effort anyway......

I dont think George is worthy of such effort

That's a very good point, Linwood, and one I was thinking about as I was driving around today. I won't say I've never hated, or that I think that the people in those situations aren't justified in feeling the hatred. It is an emotion that helps us deal with horrific situations. I just don't know if it's helpful, long-term.

And Hoomer, I'm just going to ask you flat out, here, so that I can avoid misinterpreting you: are you saying that the actions of those in the past make it okay to hate people who have nothing to do with those actions? Again, I'm only asking this because I'm hoping you're not saying this, and wouldn't want to assume that you are.

Hoomer,

If you need to hate someone, you can hate me. I know you don't need my permission, however, I would rather have you channel that hated at me.

hoomer said:

Shall I spend time and make a list of:

cutures, races, creeds, peoples, countries, continents

that have ALL been BUTCHERD for simply not being christians???

I will if you want.......though it would be long....:bonk:

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You make my point for me. You are unwilling to unequivocally condemn it. You won't. In every case of condemnation, you explain how it's whining, or it happens all the time, or Christians brought it on themselves. You have not, and it seems, will not condemn it outright without qualification.

I have literally heard both of these statements:

"AIDS isn't such a big deal. The gays brought it on themselves, after all, with their godless lifestyles. I wish that people wouldn't complain about it, but I do think it's a bad thing." That is unquestionable hatred.

"It's not such a big deal what happened to the Jews. They brought it on themselves, and frankly, it's just six million people. Why do people make such a big deal out of it still? It think it's a bad, bu tit's not all that important." That's blatant antisemitism.

Granted those aren't direct quotes, but I've heard the same qualifications from racists on blacks and the KKK. It seems that the points you make are pretty stock. They're a way of condemning an action without all the impact of condemning it. It's easy, and we can find them almost verbatim in rhetoric that targets any particular group if the speaker at all acknowledges the crimes, because in order to maintain the rhetoric, they have to be minimized.

When pressed, the racist or the one who hates the gays will generally hide behind qualifications like that, because nobody likes stark disapproval, or they will attack the person interrogating them on the points. You have to pull teeth just to get an unequivocal condemnation of what happened.

I'm experiencing the same problem with you I have with most racists (aside from those who deny the events ever happened). You first said tried to make it to where it wasn't that big a deal, and even undermine it (80-90 million at the lowest estimate is still a lot of people...even if the world has 2 billion Christians. The minimum is almost 5% of the population, and quite likely the estimate is higher). When more than just me condemned what you were saying, then of course, you didn't support the killing...of course, you have done so with qualifications. We repeatedly go round the "attack the Christian" also.

It's the same behavior, same way of arguing. Why should I regard your unwillingness to unequivocally condemn the murder of Christians any different than the racists who are unwilling to unequivocally condemn their crimes, or the anti-gays who won't unequivocally condemn their discrimination? It's the exact same arguments and qualifications I've run into in so many places. Even if I get an unequivocal condemnation of it...I still will have had to pull teeth to get it.

linwood said:

You might as well abolish love or compassion or disinterest.

I don`t think all hate is unhealthy, in some cases it`s definately the only healthy course for self preservation .

Answer the question No*s.
Is it morally wrong for that Ruwandan woman to hold hatred uin her heart for those that slaughtered her family, rapes tortured and mutilated her?

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Yes. She will raise her children to hate the others. In time, they will inflict the same crimes. I should have been more clear...the hate will only perpetuate itself, and it will cause more violence, and more hatred.

I think there's a difference between the Rwandan woman situation (I wish I could say it was hypothetical) and the one about hatred of a religious group. The woman would only naturally hate those that had done such horrific things to her. As I think I might have been interpreting correctly, Linwood, you were suggesting that there's a healthy component to hatred. I would agree, in that case. There was a time when I hated my father. I think that was a healthy hatred, because he had the ability to inflict great harm on me at the time, and it was better for me to keep my distance from him, both physically and emotionally.

However, the majority of the topic seems to be about hatred toward an entire group. Unless a large number of people are very busy, I'm not sure if it is possible for everyone in an entire group to personally wrong you in your lifetime.

jewscout said:

i'll just say...i don't necessarily hate christians...but i feel there are a few sects and christians the world could do without **cough**Falwell**cough**

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Oh, you are so fruballed.

linwood said:

I understand and agree feathers

I just wanted to point out that I don`t believe hatred is always inherently immoral.

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And I'm glad you did so! It got me thinking, which is never a bad thing. I thought you were making an excellent point.

FeathersinHair said:

I think there's a difference between the Rwandan woman situation (I wish I could say it was hypothetical) and the one about hatred of a religious group. The woman would only naturally hate those that had done such horrific things to her. As I think I might have been interpreting correctly, Linwood, you were suggesting that there's a healthy component to hatred. I would agree, in that case. There was a time when I hated my father. I think that was a healthy hatred, because he had the ability to inflict great harm on me at the time, and it was better for me to keep my distance from him, both physically and emotionally.

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If I had hated my Father...I would have turned out just like him (in fact, I was until I learned to forgive) .

FeathersinHair said:

However, the majority of the topic seems to be about hatred toward an entire group. Unless a large number of people are very busy, I'm not sure if it is possible for everyone in an entire group to personally wrong you in your lifetime.

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I thought that he was making this a collective thing...now I feel dumb...