Who is the beast?

To make a long walk thruogh Daniel and Rev. The last beast is the Roman Empire. Did Rome go any where? Many Christian say that the Roman Empire will rise again. Rev. chapter 13 and so on. Do the Christians believe that the Italians will take over the world? If it where possible even the elect would be deceived. Be not deceived! Rome became the Catholic church, Matt 24, They will take you before judges, rulers kings and torture and kill some of you. Christians say this will happen to them, but they have been doing it since they started. This is what Christians have done to Jews for 2000 years. Just like the scriptures say would happen. The small beast that comes from the first beast, is Christianity! Which has been as bloody as the beast it came from. By their fruits you shall know them.

this has nothing to do w/ Judaism why is it allowed to remain in this forum?????

Well just looking at what the poster put as his religion (Jew) says to me hes not really Jewish.
I agree though what does this have to do with Judaism?

No the beast is not the beast, it is the beast an acctual beast not a church.

And im a catholic and never hurt any jewish people, i love em. well not really, but I do

May be some feel you are deceived as the prophets stated over and over. Is it possible that the prophets were right? If so than you are wrong!Who is a Jew? What kind of Jew are you? I am one that reads the Scriptures and seeks the truth. Remember Mount Carmel? Many a Israelite has been deceived as the rest of the world.

alexander garcia said:

May be some feel you are deceived as the prophets stated over and over. Is it possible that the prophets were right? If so than you are wrong!Who is a Jew? What kind of Jew are you? I am one that reads the Scriptures and seeks the truth. Remember Mount Carmel? Many a Israelite has been deceived as the rest of the world.

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a discussion on "the beast" from Revelations has NOTHING to do with judaism and doesn't belong in this specific forum.

Hi again Jewscout, I have a different point of view. I know that the book of Daniel is in the Writings in my Tanach. Just that is funny to me how the writings of the prophet were taken by the sages and put out of the prophets and into writings. Well the prophecies of the book are interpreted by a messenger from Heaven ( Gabriel ). Just one question, who do you believe? The sages that some how NEVER got into the Scriptures, or the Prophet and Gabriel? If everyone says the WW11 did not happen does that make it true? If the Rabbi and the sages say it did not happen does it make it true? I am sorry to make this comparison but many a Jew sounds like a Christian. So are we to listen to other men to tell us what is written? I can read! Read more and see what you can see. Shalom

alexander garcia said:

Hi again Jewscout, I have a different point of view. I know that the book of Daniel is in the Writings in my Tanach. Just that is funny to me how the writings of the prophet were taken by the sages and put out of the prophets and into writings. Well the prophecies of the book are interpreted by a messenger from Heaven ( Gabriel ). Just one question, who do you believe? The sages that some how NEVER got into the Scriptures, or the Prophet and Gabriel? If everyone says the WW11 did not happen does that make it true? If the Rabbi and the sages say it did not happen does it make it true? I am sorry to make this comparison but many a Jew sounds like a Christian. So are we to listen to other men to tell us what is written? I can read! Read more and see what you can see. Shalom

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Daniel is not considered a prophet in Judaism. He had visions that were to be written down but he was not a prophet in the proper sense that he was to speak to a whole nation.

Great link:

Judaism 101: Who's a prophet?

Be sure to check out the rest of the site as well. TONS of great reading there.

Yes I know that Daniel is not considered a prophet by most Jews. Well here is one that has a different opinion. I do not agree with most of our traditions and Rabbi. Does that make me less a JEW? Why would I read Judaism 101 when I have the Scriptures? Here are a few more for you I don't have 613 I have many many more. Why because I can read!

alexander garcia said:

Yes I know that Daniel is not considered a prophet by most Jews. Well here is one that has a different opinion. I do not agree with most of our traditions and Rabbi. Does that make me less a JEW? Why would I read Judaism 101 when I have the Scriptures? Here are a few more for you I don't have 613 I have many many more. Why because I can read!

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Scoff at the Oral Law all you like but to read the scriptures without the Oral Law is like reading a newspaper that only contains headlines. Example? In Devarim 12:21 it says "...you may slaughter of your cattle and of your sheep, which the Lord has given you, as I have commanded you, and you may eat in your cities, according to every desire of your soul."

Where in the scriptures does it say how they are to be slaughtered?

alexander garcia said:

Yes I know that Daniel is not considered a prophet by most Jews. Well here is one that has a different opinion. I do not agree with most of our traditions and Rabbi. Does that make me less a JEW? Why would I read Judaism 101 when I have the Scriptures? Here are a few more for you I don't have 613 I have many many more. Why because I can read!

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Joseph interpreted dreams .

Not everybody who does cool stuff in the bible rises to the status of Prophet.

Heck... there were hundreds, if not thousands of prophets who didn't get their own book in the bible or even mention...

As for not agreeing with most of our traditions and Rabbis... take a look at this:

Deuteronomy 17:
8. If a matter eludes you in judgment, between blood and blood, between judgment and judgment, or between lesion and lesion, words of dispute in your cities, then you shall rise and go up to the place the Lord, your God, chooses.

9. And you shall come to the Levitic kohanim and to the judge who will be in those days, and you shall inquire, and they will tell you the words of judgment.

10. And you shall do according to the word they tell you, from the place the Lord will choose, and you shall observe to do according to all they instruct you.

11. According to the law they instruct you and according to the judgment they say to you, you shall do; you shall not divert from the word they tell you, either right or left.

12. And the man who acts intentionally, not obeying the kohen who stands there to serve the Lord, your God, or to the judge that man shall die, and you shall abolish evil from Israel.

13. And all the people shall listen and fear, and they shall no longer act wantonly.

alexander garcia said:

Well the prophecies of the book are interpreted by a messenger from Heaven ( Gabriel ). Just one question, who do you believe? The sages that some how NEVER got into the Scriptures, or the Prophet and Gabriel?

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The Prophet? Gabriel?

that's ISLAM

IT. HAS. NOTHING. TO. DO. WITH. JUDAISM.

jewscout said:

The Prophet? Gabriel?

that's ISLAM

IT. HAS. NOTHING. TO. DO. WITH. JUDAISM.

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He's insisting on calling Daniel a prophet, though the Tanach doesn't list his writings among the Neviim.

Poisonshady313 said:

He's insisting on calling Daniel a prophet, though the Tanach doesn't list his writings among the Neviim.

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this entire thread has little or nothing to do w/ judaism and IMPO should be moved elsewhere more appropriate.

jewscout said:

this entire thread has little or nothing to do w/ judaism and IMPO should be moved elsewhere more appropriate.

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It's true that alex has a particularly sloppy way of presenting himself... but in as much defense as I'm willing to provide him, Daniel does indeed speak of beasts.