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The Perfect Plan

P

precept

Member
Lightkeeper said:
First you say homosexuality is a sin and humans and plants are condemned with disease by God for sin. Then you say God has mercy and can heal and has allowed us to heal. Which is it? Are we condemned or do we have God's mercy? We know homosexuality is not a disease. You haven't proven that God didn't create homosexuals and it isn't part of His perfect plan.
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When God made the earth; everything was
"perfect" in both plant and animal life. Humans sinned and the earth was cursed. If humans had not sinned, every human would have lived forever. This would mean that humans, plants and the lower animals would never experience disease in any form; and their would never be the experience of death.

The bible makes it clear that the experience of death is as a result of "sin". James 1:15 "Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."
Romans 5:12 "Wherefore as by one man sin entered into the world and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned."[/B]

It is therefore more than clear that any who is raised from death to life has this experience solely on the mercy of God. This means any sinner that claims salvation otherwise known as eternal life, only gains this favor on the mercy of God....and since disease, a direct consequence of sin can only be healed by He who made us in the first place, then only on His mercy are we healed; and only by His mercy does He teach us humans the secret to how to heal other humans who are afflicted with diseases that ultimately cause our human bodies to die the death due to sin.


precept
 
L

Lightkeeper

Well-Known Member
It is therefore more than clear that any who is raised from death to life has this experience solely on the mercy of God. This means any sinner that claims salvation otherwise known as eternal life, only gains this favor on the mercy of God....and since disease, a direct consequence of sin can only be healed by He who made us in the first place, then only on His mercy are we healed; and only by His mercy does He teach us humans the secret to how to heal other humans who are afflicted with diseases that ultimately cause our human bodies to die the death due to sin.
precept
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If this is true then we could save a lot of money by not going to medical school. We have learned how to heal by thousands of years of trial and error. How many people have you seen raised from the dead? This still doesn't prove that homosexuality isn't part of God's perfect plan.
 
P

precept

Member
Lightkeeper said:
[/b] If this is true then we could save a lot of money by not going to medical school. We have learned how to heal by thousands of years of trial and error. How many people have you seen raised from the dead? This still doesn't prove that homosexuality isn't part of God's perfect plan.
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The burden of proof is not God's. God has no need to prove to humans why He chooses to consider any one act, a sin. Once He declares any particular act a sin; so it is. There is no record that shows that the people of Sodom was told by God to refrain from homosexuality before God's threatening their destruction. And yet God would have spared the whole city of probably hundreds from destruction if as little as ten of them were not practicing homosexuals.

The burden of proof lies with the humans of Sodom. They knew what normal sexual relations involved; and that was whether or not they were born "that way". Normal sexual relations include the use of "fingers" to manipulate a knife and fork and not one's "toes". Just because ten fingers appear to correspond to ten toes, is no reason to use one's toes to manipulate a knife and fork.

The people of Sodom were all destroyed by fire from God...those who thought they were born "that way" and those who didn't care.

The destruction of the Sodomites, the ancient term for homosexuality, was referred to by Peter in this way: "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live UNGODLY".

Jude 7...also makes the point "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, SUFFERING THE VENGEANCE OF ETERNAL FIRE."

The burden of proof lies with humanity--Not God! Those who choose to violate God's principles in any regard WILL SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES.


precept
 
L

Lightkeeper

Well-Known Member
precept said:
The burden of proof is not God's. God has no need to prove to humans why He chooses to consider any one act, a sin. Once He declares any particular act a sin; so it is. There is no record that shows that the people of Sodom was told by God to refrain from homosexuality before God's threatening their destruction. And yet God would have spared the whole city of probably hundreds from destruction if as little as ten of them were not practicing homosexuals.

The burden of proof lies with the humans of Sodom. They knew what normal sexual relations involved; and that was whether or not they were born "that way". Normal sexual relations include the use of "fingers" to manipulate a knife and fork and not one's "toes". Just because ten fingers appear to correspond to ten toes, is no reason to use one's toes to manipulate a knife and fork.

The people of Sodom were all destroyed by fire from God...those who thought they were born "that way" and those who didn't care.

The destruction of the Sodomites, the ancient term for homosexuality, was referred to by Peter in this way: "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live UNGODLY".

Jude 7...also makes the point "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, SUFFERING THE VENGEANCE OF ETERNAL FIRE."

The burden of proof lies with humanity--Not God! Those who choose to violate God's principles in any regard WILL SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES.


precept
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These cities were not destroyed for sexual reasons. The reasons were faithlessness and inhospitality. Back to the drawing board. The burden of proof is on anyone who tries to interpret the Bible.
 
Feathers in Hair

Feathers in Hair

World's Tallest Hobbit
Lightkeeper said:
These cities were not destroyed for sexual reasons. The reasons were faithlessness and inhospitality.
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So interesting that when some people use that story to condemn homosexuality, they convieniently forget that.
 
P

precept

Member
Lightkeeper said:
These cities were not destroyed for sexual reasons. The reasons were faithlessness and inhospitality. Back to the drawing board. The burden of proof is on anyone who tries to interpret the Bible.
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" And the Lord said because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrha is great and because their SIN IS VERY GREVIOUS; I will go down now...and the men turned their faces from thence, and went towards Sodom; but Abraham stood yet before the Lord ....and said Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the WICKED["faithlessness and inhospitality"! did you say?]....And the Lord said if I find in Sodom fifthy righteous within the city,I will SPARE ALL THE PLACE FOR THEIR SAKES Genesis 18:20-26

The Lord did not even find ten righteous! "Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrha brinstone and fire from the Lord of heaven; and He overthrew those cities; and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground."

"And Abraham gat up early in the morning .....and looked toward Sodom and Gomorrha ...and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace."[B/] Genesis chapters 18-19

The burden of proof is on anyone who tries to interpret the Bible.
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And in this regard you are right!


precept
 
L

Lightkeeper

Well-Known Member
It is sad to build your life on a metaphor that is several thousand years old. And sadder yet to trust one who would kill the righteous to make a point. The absolute reality is that homosexuality exists and these people and other animals have a right to live and be happy. At some point we have to face reality and stop standing in the way of other's happiness, because we are caught up in a metaphor.
 
P

precept

Member
Lightkeeper said:
.......".And sadder yet to trust one who would kill the righteous to make a poin"t.....
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Not to worry! Lightkeeper, Not to worry!...Nobody is forced to "trust" Him. Everyone is free to choose a way; and ways ; and A way, The "high" soul chooses the: high way; and the low soul chooses the low. Yes! to every man there openeth a way; and ways; and a way; but it is up to each man to decide whch way his soul must go.


precept
 
L

Lightkeeper

Well-Known Member
Not to worry! Lightkeeper, Not to worry!...Nobody is forced to "trust" Him. Everyone is free to choose a way; and ways ; and A way, The "high" soul chooses the: high way; and the low soul chooses the low. Yes! to every man there openeth a way; and ways; and a way; but it is up to each man to decide whch way his soul must go.
precept
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Yes, I agree! Loving and accepting homosexuals and helping them to have rights is the "high way."
 
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