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LDS beliefs and the Bible

Bishka

Veteran Member
GEE.

just say your justification is not biblical and we are done.

GEE.

Just say you cannot actually understand the Bible and we are done.

See that wasn't that hard.

You fail to actually understand what you are talking about and instead parrot scripture repeatedly expecting it to mean something when people have many different interpretations on it.
 

uss_bigd

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Starfish
As I said, polygamy is not allowed at different times and in different circumstances. The scriptures in Matthew are talking about divorce. The Bible obviously condemns that, but you seem to avoid that subject.
In Timothy, bishops and deacons are commanded to have only one wife. We interpret this to be saying they must not be divorced. I doubt if polygamy was practiced during that time, as there is no evidence of it.


if may remind you, you answered this question this way:
Originally Posted by uss_bigd
Just answer the qustion on its face value;

LDS explicitly accepts polygamy:
bible( according to you and sola'lor) does not explicitly accept polygamy.

Are they different or not?

by starfish; No, they're not.


MAT 19:9 also talks about having a "wife" in sigular form, and not to divorce her and marry another unless if she fornicates during the marriage.

so how can wife in singular form be the same as multiple wives?

1 Tim 3:2 says one wife. one wife, one wife , one wife... how can that accept polygamy?

GEE.

just say your justification is not biblical and we are done.
 

Starfish

Please no sarcasm
MAT 19:9 also talks about having a "wife" in sigular form, and not to divorce her and marry another unless if she fornicates during the marriage.

so how can wife in singular for be the same as multiple wives?

1 Tim 3:2 says one wife. one wife, one wife , one wife... how can that accept polygamy?

GEE.

just say your justification is not biblical and we are done.
Again, the NT does not mention polygamy. When a man marries a woman, then divorces her and marries another, how many wives has he had? Two.

You're annoyed because my interpretation of the Bible, does not agree with your intepretation. I think your interpretation is valid, and I see how it justifies your beliefs. Therefore, I respect your beliefs. I just don't agree.

LDS doctrine is not all found in the Bible. But it does not contradict the Bible.
 

uss_bigd

Well-Known Member
LDS doctrine is not all found in the Bible. But it does not contradict the Bible.



look sir, you said the statement below are not different, meaning the same.

LDS explicitly accepts polygamy:

bible( according to you and sola'lor) does not explicitly accept polygamy.


Meaning if they are the same the bible should accept polygamy because LDS doctrine accepts polygamy.

That is you argument not mine.

obviously you cannot reconcile your arguments to be coherent, becuase the bible, specifically mat 19:9, mat 19:6 and 1 Tim 3:2. states one wife. and you cannot conclude it accepts polygamy to make it the same as LDS doctrine.

your way out is to explain it using extrabiblical doctrine:

not until you can biblically reconcile the fact that the verses i quoted says "one wife" you can never conclude those verses are consistent with LDS doctrine because you allwoed more than one at point..

hence, LDS Doctrine is different from NT doctrine in the bible.

 

jonny

Well-Known Member
hey bigd could you come over to that other thread and look at where i answered your question because you kept saying to answer your question over and over again and when i finally did you ignored my answer and im curious about what it means now that i believe the old testament is obsolete and i think youre the only person who can help me with that thank you very much and i love pizza!!!!
 

Apex

Somewhere Around Nothing
uss_bigd, do you understand the difference between the Bible not mentioning something, and, not agreeing with something? Because it seems you think these two things are one in the same, which they are not.
 

Starfish

Please no sarcasm
look sir, you said the statement below are not different, meaning the same.

LDS explicitly accepts polygamy:

bible( according to you and sola'lor) does not explicitly accept polygamy.


Meaning if they are the same the bible should accept polygamy because LDS doctrine accepts polygamy.

That is you argument not mine.

obviously you cannot reconcile your arguments to be coherent, becuase the bible, specifically mat 19:9, mat 19:6 and 1 Tim 3:2. states one wife. and you cannot conclude it accepts polygamy to make it the same as LDS doctrine.

your way out is to explain it using extrabiblical doctrine:

not until you can biblically reconcile the fact that the verses i quoted says "one wife" you can never conclude those verses are consistent with LDS doctrine because you allwoed more than one at point..

hence, LDS Doctrine is different from NT doctrine in the bible.

uss_bigd, do you understand the difference between the Bible not mentioning something, and, not agreeing with something? Because it seems you think these two things are one in the same, which they are not.
Exactly.
 

SoyLeche

meh...
look sir, you said the statement below are not different, meaning the same.

LDS explicitly accepts polygamy:

bible( according to you and sola'lor) does not explicitly accept polygamy.


Meaning if they are the same the bible should accept polygamy because LDS doctrine accepts polygamy.

That is you argument not mine.
Once again (but in another thread this time):

I say all cats are mammals. You say nothing about whether or not cats are mammals.

HOW CAN WE BOTH BE CORRECT?????

(seriously - take a logic class)
 

Fish-Hunter

Rejoice in the Lord!
I have, and it fits perfectly together.



Actually the LDs religion is supported by Holy Scriptures. We are supported by the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, all of which are our Holy Scriptures.

Our church cannot be supported by the Bible alone. That's the reason we use other Books of Scripture.



No, The Book of Mormon is switching anything away from the Bible. It is supporting and clarifying the Bible.

Can we all at least agree that there are two different Faiths depending on what one accepts as divine Holy Revelation? The Mormon Religion believes that the Holy Bible is insufficient revelation from God. The Christian Religion believes that the Holy Bible is sufficient revelation from God.

1. Bible Alone = Historical Christian Faith

1. Bible + Book of Mormon + Doctrine and Covenants + Pearl of Great Price = Mormon Religion
 

SoyLeche

meh...
Can we all at least agree that there are two different Faiths depending on what one accepts as divine Holy Revelation?

1. Bible Alone = Historical Christian Faith

1. Bible + Book of Mormon + Doctrine and Covenants + Pearl of Great Price = Mormon Religion
I disagree with #1. "Bible Alone" is a reletively new Christian Faith.

I also may disagree that they are different "Faiths". It depends on how you are defining "Faith". I'd say they are two different approaches to the same "Faith".
 

Fish-Hunter

Rejoice in the Lord!
How so? You have yet to present and arguement that holds water against what is actually written in the Bible.



Yes it is suffecient to know that if anyone teaches a different gospel than Christ's they should be condemned. And I agree with it. So if I find anyone who does teach a different gospel I will leave it to God to condemn them. And I will do my best to offer them the truth. If they reject it it is between them and God.



In respect to the analogy, that would be disobeying the commandments. But also in respect to te analogy, that is outside of what we are discussing. We are discussing those things that aren't specified. We know what is specified.

It appears that we are in agreement that the official Mormon Gospel is different than the Evangelical gospel defined within scripture alone. Therefore, the anathema of Galatians chapter 1 applies to either the Mormons institution or the Evangelical believers, since they proclaim a mutually exclusive gospel, correct?

Galatians 1

Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead— and all the brothers with me,

To the churches in Galatia:
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

No Other Gospel

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
10Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Paul Called by God

I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.


**** Noticed that Paul received the gospel of grace from Jesus Christ and not the Angel Moroni. If we compare the Apostle Paul and Joseph Smith, there sources of revelation are from mutually exclusive sources. Please fee free to educate Evangelical Christians, additional Protestant Christians, Roman Catholic Christians, and Orthodox Christians how Joseph Smith received his restoration revelation that changes everything regarding the historical Christian Faith.

History

In western New York state in 1827, Smith had a vision in which an angel named Moroni told him about engraved golden plates. Smith allegedly translated these plates into English as the Book of Mormon—so called after an ancient American prophet who, according to Smith, had compiled the text recorded on the plates. The Book of Mormon recounts the history of a family of Israelites that migrated to America centuries before Jesus Christ and were taught by prophets similar to those in the Old Testament. The religion Smith founded originated amid the great fervour of competing Christian revivalist movements in early 19th-century America but departed from them in its proclamation of a new dispensation. Through Smith, God had restored the “true church”—i.e., the primitive Christian church—and had reasserted the true faith from which the various Christian churches had strayed.

Mormonism -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia
 

Fish-Hunter

Rejoice in the Lord!
I disagree with #1. "Bible Alone" is a reletively new Christian Faith.

I also may disagree that they are different "Faiths". It depends on how you are defining "Faith". I'd say they are two different approaches to the same "Faith".

Okay, please explain your answer. Even Roman Catholics and Orthodox share that the Holy Bible is complete revelation from God. This is confirmed by Katzpur too, understanding that sacred Roman Catholic tradition is not considered additional revelation from God by Rome. How can you say we have the same Faith since we have a different God? I worship the Almighty Triune God with different attributes that the God that you believe in. We believe in mutually exclusive gospels and believe in mutually exclusive Holy revelation.

John 8:24:
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins."
 

Apex

Somewhere Around Nothing
Okay, please explain your answer. Even Roman Catholics and Orthodox share that the Holy Bible is complete revelation from God. This is confirmed by Katzpur too, understanding that sacred Roman Catholic tradition is not considered additional revelation from God by Rome. How can you say we have the same Faith since we have a different God? I worship the Almighty Triune God with different attributes that the God that you believe in.
Have you compared you Bible with a Catholic Bible lately? The Catholic Bible has more books.
Ok, I am going to use a little bit of your logic here using this statement you made,
1. Bible Alone = Historical Christian Faith
I am assuming you mean mainstream-Christianity as "Historical Christian Faith". If so exactly which Bible are you talking about? Your Bible? If you mean your Bible then it is only "Historical" up to the Protestant Reformation. Before that it would be the Catholics who use a different Bible. And before that there was not even a Bible up to several hundred years after Christ. There were only separate books accepted in different regions.

Your statement of "Bible Alone = Historical Christian Faith" is far to idealistically simplistic given the circumstances at hand. For with this statement, you would have to throw in a lot of qualifiers to simply have you version of Christianity accepted as "historical".
 

Fish-Hunter

Rejoice in the Lord!
Have you compared you Bible with a Catholic Bible lately? The Catholic Bible has more books.
Ok, I am going to use a little bit of your logic here using this statement you made,

I am assuming you mean mainstream-Christianity as "Historical Christian Faith". If so exactly which Bible are you talking about? Your Bible? If you mean your Bible then it is only "Historical" up to the Protestant Reformation. Before that it would be the Catholics who use a different Bible. And before that there was not even a Bible up to several hundred years after Christ. There were only separate books accepted in different regions.

Your statement of "Bible Alone = Historical Christian Faith" is far to idealistically simplistic given the circumstances at hand. For with this statement, you would have to throw in a lot of qualifiers to simply have you version of Christianity accepted as "historical".

Have you read the Apocrypha books in the Roman Catholic Bible? They are not doctrinal in the sense that it would change the Christian Faith. Actually, many of the older Protestant Bibles included the Apocrypha books in the appendix. They are important books to study as a Protestant Christian too. I love Roman Catholic Bibles. Many Roman Catholics also use Protestant Bibles, especially in the United States. Protestant Christians, Roman Catholic Christians, and Eastern Orthodox Christians know that the body of Christ will have members from these three major communities divided within Christendom. Please consider the Webster Dictionary as a definiton of Christianity. Notice that the Mormon Religion is not included in the Webster Dictionary as being under Christianity.

christianity - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

christianity


Main Entry: Chris·tian·i·ty Pronunciation: \ˌkris-chē-ˈa-nə-tē, ˌkrish-, -ˈcha-nə-, ˌkris-tē-ˈa-\ Function: noun Date: 14th century 1 : the religion derived from Jesus Christ, based on the Bible as sacred scripture, and professed by Eastern, Roman Catholic, and Protestant bodies 2 : conformity to the Christian religion 3 : the practice of Christianity
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


latter-day saint - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

latter-day saint

One entry found.

Latter-day Saint

Main Entry: Latter–day Saint Function: noun Usage: often capitalized D Date: 1834 : a member of any of several religious bodies tracing their origin to Joseph Smith in 1830 and accepting the Book of Mormon as divine revelation : mormon

mormon - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Main Entry: Mor·mon Pronunciation: \ˈmȯr-mən\ Function: noun Date: 1830 1: the ancient redactor and compiler of the Book of Mormon presented as divine revelation by Joseph Smith2: latter-day saint; especially : a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
— Mor·mon·ism \-mə-ˌni-zəm\ noun
.hlcomplexityorange { color:#CC6600;**a.hlcomplexityorange { text-decoration:none;**a.hlcomplexityorange:hover { text-decoration:underline;**

Learn more about "Mormon" and related topics at Britannica.com
 

SoyLeche

meh...
Okay, please explain your answer. Even Roman Catholics and Orthodox share that the Holy Bible is complete revelation from God. This is confirmed by Katzpur too, understanding that sacred Roman Catholic tradition is not considered additional revelation from God by Rome. How can you say we have the same Faith since we have a different God? I worship the Almighty Triune God with different attributes that the God that you believe in. We believe in mutually exclusive gospels and believe in mutually exclusive Holy revelation.

John 8:24:
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins."
The Catholics also put a lot of weight on "Tradition", of which the Bible is only a part.

I don't believe we have "different Gods". I think we have different understandings of the same God. (BTW - the whole "triune God" thing is creedal, not biblical - so your "Bible Alone" thing is falling apart as we speak).
 

Fish-Hunter

Rejoice in the Lord!
You are going to let Webster's define your religion for you???? I don't give them that kind of authority over me.

The Webster Dictionary is secular, unbias, and neutral. Does it really bother you that a neutral secular source does not consider Mormonism to be Christianity? :sorry1: . Within our debate, secular neutral unbias sources are good! ;)
 

Fish-Hunter

Rejoice in the Lord!
The Webster Dictionary is secular, unbias, and neutral. Does it really bother you that a neutral secular source does not consider Mormonism to be Christianity? :sorry1: . Within our debate, secular neutral unbias sources are good! ;)
. In a court of law, it is important to determine the credibility of the source of witness and testimony in determining the truth. Unbiased, neutral sources are very important, don't you agree?
 
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