contradictions in the bible???

zoe and vic · May 2, 2008

If you don't know who the Father is then you don't the Son, but I will pray for you and yours that, "that God will grant you repentance leading you to a knowledge of the truth, and that you will come to your senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken you captive to do his will.

Good night my friend.
May God bless you and keep you giving you revelation of the Son and where He lives in the bosom of the Father.

Sola'lor · May 2, 2008

zoe and vic said:
If you don't know who the Father is then you don't the Son, but I will pray for you and yours that, "that God will grant you repentance leading you to a knowledge of the truth, and that you will come to your senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken you captive to do his will.

So you believe that I am doing the will of the devil? I believe I know the Father. I just asked what made you think that I don't know Him. If you could answer that it would help me to better address how I do know the Father.

Good night my friend.
May God bless you and keep you giving you revelation of the Son and where He lives in the bosom of the Father.

Thank you. God night too. I'm glad that you too believe in continuing revelation from God.

uss_bigd · May 2, 2008

Sola'lor said:
So you believe that I am doing the will of the devil? I believe I know the Father. I just asked what made you think that I don't know Him. If you could answer that it would help me to better address how I do know the Father.

Thank you. God night too. I'm glad that you too believe in continuing revelation from God.

1 Corinthians 4:6

And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

1 Corinthians 4:9
For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.

1 Galatians 1:8

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

Now, what do you understand by the apostles being last, do not think of men above that which is written and other gospel than the one we preached to you?

THIS ISN'T CONTINUOUS REVELATION!!!.

YOU SPEAK FOR YOUR SELF.

uss_bigd · May 2, 2008

Sola'lor said:
God has commanded polygamy at times and has condemned it at times. That is biblical.

YOU HAVE IGNORED COUNTLESS TIMES THAT THE LAW WAS CHANGED DURING THE TIME CHRIST BECAME HUMAN AND DWELT AMONG US.

POLYGAMY IS FORNICATION! SEE ROMANS 1:29,32. YOU WILL NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING I SAY BECAUSE IT DESTROYS THE VERY EXISTENCE OF YOUR RELIGION.

THEN COLLECT AS MANY WIVES AS YOU CAN! AND FORNICATE.!!

Sola'lor · May 2, 2008

I adressed your above post in the other thread.

uss_bigd said:
YOU HAVE IGNORED COUNTLESS TIMES THAT THE LAW WAS CHANGED DURING THE TIME CHRIST BECAME HUMAN AND DWELT AMONG US.

No I haven't. It is part of my belief that Chrost fulfilled the Law of Moses and brought the Law of Gospel. I've never denied that.

POLYGAMY IS FORNICATION! SEE ROMANS 1:29,32. YOU WILL NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING I SAY BECAUSE IT DESTROYS THE VERY EXISTENCE OF YOUR RELIGION.

I won't accept what you say because it is based on your own interpretation. My interpretation is backed by Prophets of God.

Hmmm. uss_bigd's opinon? or God word as revealed through His living prophets? Which should I choose?

THEN COLLECT AS MANY WIVES AS YOU CAN! AND FORNICATE.!!

Why should I. God has commaned us not to practice polygamy. Any one who does so will be going against God's commandments and will be condemned.

Btw. It's impossible to fornicate if one is married.

Bishka · May 2, 2008

uss_bigd said:
YOU HAVE IGNORED COUNTLESS TIMES THAT THE LAW WAS CHANGED DURING THE TIME CHRIST BECAME HUMAN AND DWELT AMONG US.

No need to yell.

uss_bigd said:
POLYGAMY IS FORNICATION! SEE ROMANS 1:29,32.

Then I guess Abraham was a fornicator along with Jacob and David.

uss_bigd said:
YOU WILL NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING I SAY BECAUSE IT DESTROYS THE VERY EXISTENCE OF YOUR RELIGION.

Untrue, but wouldn't you like to believe it.

We don't accept your interpretation of what we believe or the Bible, because we believe ours is correct. It's really simple.

uss_bigd said:
THEN COLLECT AS MANY WIVES AS YOU CAN! AND FORNICATE.!!

Again, no need to yell.

Someone is getting their britches in a bunch!

zoe and vic · May 2, 2008

Sola'lor said:
Btw. It's impossible to fornicate if one is married.

"Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."

According to the Word of God... his own and her own is singular. This does not say that the man owns his wife either. It says they own each other. Also it says this is the only way to avoid fornication: they should have themselves to each other; man and wife.

It's not interpretation- it's simply reading a sentence.

If you're not justifying God in your argument then you are justifying man, institutions, theories, and lies. To justify God is to speak the truth of the matter, even at the detriment of your own belief.

Bishka · May 2, 2008

zoe and vic said:
"Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."

According to the Word of God... his own and her own is singular. This does not say that the man owns his wife either. It says they own each other. Also it says this is the only way to avoid fornication: they should have themselves to each other; man and wife.

It's not interpretation- it's simply reading a sentence.

If you're not justifying God in your argument then you are justifying man, institutions, theories, and lies. To justify God is to speak the truth of the matter, even at the detriment of your own belief.

Anybody feel like addressing my post?

Abraham, Jacob, David......

All had multiple wives and concubines.

Let me guess, they were all fornicating?

Autodidact · May 2, 2008

Please forgive me if this has been answered, as I am jumping in without reviewing the whole thread.

How did Judas die?

Autodidact · May 2, 2008

uss_bigd said:
YOU HAVE IGNORED COUNTLESS TIMES THAT THE LAW WAS CHANGED DURING THE TIME CHRIST BECAME HUMAN AND DWELT AMONG US.

POLYGAMY IS FORNICATION! SEE ROMANS 1:29,32. YOU WILL NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING I SAY BECAUSE IT DESTROYS THE VERY EXISTENCE OF YOUR RELIGION.

THEN COLLECT AS MANY WIVES AS YOU CAN! AND FORNICATE.!!

Does it say somewhere in the Bible that polygamy is fornication?

Autodidact · May 2, 2008

zoe and vic said:
"Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."

I don't see the part where it says only one of each.

According to the Word of God... his own and her own is singular. This does not say that the man owns his wife either. It says they own each other. Also it says this is the only way to avoid fornication: they should have themselves to each other; man and wife.

It's not interpretation- it's simply reading a sentence.

If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights.

Exodus 21. It's not interpreation- it's simply reading a sentence, which clearly says that a man can marry another woman.

If you're not justifying God in your argument then you are justifying man, institutions, theories, and lies. To justify God is to speak the truth of the matter, even at the detriment of your own belief.

I can see through your house.

zoe and vic · May 2, 2008

Autodidact said:
I don't see the part where it says only one of each.

It is to be mutually exclusive.

Exodus 21. It's not interpreation- it's simply reading a sentence, which clearly says that a man can marry another woman.

We are talking about the revelation of Christ. Walking in the constant state of perfection in complete union with God. Anything outside of the character of God is flesh. If you operate in flesh then you live under the law. If you operate in the Spirit then God is alive and you are dead. Therefore the dead are not judged for sin. The Spirit was poured out on all flesh just as Moses prophesied to Joshua. In Christ we no longer live under the law; we live in grace.

This grace is actually a higher law. It's actually only approachable by those who believe God without equivocation, just as Abraham, without proof. The vehicle by which this proof is made manifest is faith.

To walk in complete unity with God, in the fulness of the Spirit, in Christ, eternal life, you cannot do anything outside of the character of God. God has one bride, which is one body of believers, regardless to how severed and crippled we have become, because it was prophesied. And we are mutually exclusive, God and His bride.

I can see through your house.

Good! Then I am not being vague and evasive. Won't you come on in and taste eternal life with the God who made you, as you can see I'm in the kitchen serving.

Autodidact · May 2, 2008

zoe and vic said:
It is to be mutually exclusive.

Where does it say that? Or is this just your interpretation?

We are talking about the revelation of Christ.

Oh, I thought we were talking about the Bible. What does Christ say about polygamy? btw, aren't Christ and God supposed to be the same? Or are you a polytheist?

Autodidact · May 2, 2008

"I can see through your house" was a joke. I was hinting that your house is made of glass, so you should be very very careful when throwing stones.

zoe and vic · May 2, 2008

Autodidact said:
Where does it say that? Or is this just your interpretation?

Oh, I thought we were talking about the Bible. What does Christ say about polygamy? btw, aren't Christ and God supposed to be the same? Or are you a polytheist?

The sentence says to avoid fornication... the object of the first objection.

for man and woman to own each other- own (idios) to belong to oneself.

the man belongs to his wife, the wife belongs to her husband.

This is not stated as commandment concerning polygamy, but grace in regards to fornication.

Polygamy by overseers is explicitly covered in Timothy.

But the above passage in question does lead to clarification of the condition of polygamy and what it causes.

Autodidact · May 2, 2008

zoe and vic said:
The sentence says to avoid fornication... the object of the first objection.

Right, but what does that have to do with polygamy? Polygamy isn't fornication, it's a form of marriage.

for man and woman to own each other- own (idios) to belong to oneself.

the man belongs to his wife, the wife belongs to her husband.

This is not stated as commandment concerning polygamy, but grace in regards to fornication.

Right, so this has nothing to do with polygamy. I don't know why uss is quoting it here.

Polygamy by overseers is explicitly covered in Timothy.

Overseers? You mean deacons? Can you cite the verse please?

So, clearly polygamy is permitted in the Bible, right? After all, God chose a polygamist to create His religion.

But the above passage in question does lead to clarification of the condition of polygamy and what it causes.

It does? What does it cause? Where does it say that? I just see it saying how a man should act when he takes his second or third wife.

SoyLeche · May 2, 2008

zoe and vic said:
The sentence says to avoid fornication... the object of the first objection.

The most efficient way to avoid fornication would be for everyone to be married to everyone else...

zoe and vic · May 2, 2008

Autodidact said:
Right, but what does that have to do with polygamy? Polygamy isn't fornication, it's a form of marriage.

Sorry, friend. You would have to read all of the former passages concerning the subject.

Right, so this has nothing to do with polygamy. I don't know why uss is quoting it here.

Well, yes it does... very much the same way God didn't change anything in His Son. The things the Son said already existed in the bosom of the Father. The scripture says have His own and have Her own to avoid fornication concerning marriage. The scripture says own (idios) they own each other and the whole passage addresses the singularity of ownership exclusively to each other.

Overseers? You mean deacons? Can you cite the verse please?

"Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:"

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Bishop- Episkopos- overseer; [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]

a man charged with the duty of seeing that things to be done by others are done rightly, any curator, guardian or superintendent
the superintendent, elder, or overseer of a Christian church

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Deacon- Diakonos- [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]one who executes the commands of another, esp. of a master, a servant, attendant, minister

[/FONT]"This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;"

*FYI- [FONT=Arial, Helvetica] among the Christians, those who presided over the assemblies (or churches) The NT uses the term bishop, elders, and presbyters interchangeably

As well as pastors who are poimen- [/FONT] the presiding officer, manager, director, of any assembly: so of Christ the Head of the church1) of the overseers of the Christian assemblies
2) of kings and princes

So, clearly polygamy is permitted in the Bible, right? After all, God chose a polygamist to create His religion.

There is no commandment concerning it in the Bible except in it's regard to children, fornication, and overseer. For the Mormons to have commandment concerning it, such as, excommunication for involvement, is teaching for commandment the doctrine of men, because it is not God's Word concerning polygamy.

It does? What does it cause? Where does it say that? I just see it saying how a man should act when he takes his second or third wife.

God's word concerning it is that: to avoid fornication a man should have his own wife and a woman should have her own husband. Not sharing them with them others.

It certainly is not commandment, but this is the Word of God concerning it.

zoe and vic · May 2, 2008

I really enjoy the logical line of questioning presented by you my friend... it's nice to speak the truth in love with someone who has a genuine argument and contention with the God who loves him.

Autodidact · May 2, 2008

zoe and vic said:
Sorry, friend. You would have to read all of the former passages concerning the subject.

Give me any passages you want. Show me any passage or group of passages to the effect that polygamy is prohibited or is fornication. It's not my contention--it's yours. I say there aren't any; you say there are. What are they?

Here's what the Bible actually says about polygamy:

If a man has two wives,...

Deuteronomy 21. Obviously, if it were prohibited, it would say, "A man shall not have two wives..." Clearly, polygamy was customary in the Ancient Near East, including Israel.

Well, yes it does... very much the same way God didn't change anything in His Son. The things the Son said already existed in the bosom of the Father. The scripture says have His own and have Her own to avoid fornication concerning marriage. The scripture says own (idios) they own each other and the whole passage addresses the singularity of ownership exclusively to each other.

No, it doesn't. If God had wanted to say that, I think He would know how, don't you? Remember, fornication means sex OUTSIDE of marriage, not what type of marriage.[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][/FONT]

"This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;"

Right, Paul thinks that deacons and bishops should not be polygamous. Obviously, then, just as an ordinary man can drink wine and not teach, he an also have more than one wife. Otherwise, rather than "deacon," it would say "man." That seems so obvious to me.

There is no commandment concerning it in the Bible except in it's regard to children, fornication, and overseer.

Thank you. There is no commandment concerning it. It is not prohibited. It is permitted. That's all I'm saying.

God's word concerning it is that: to avoid fornication a man should have his own wife and a woman should have her own husband. Not sharing them with them others.

Right. It doesn't say anything about a man having several wives.

It certainly is not commandment, but this is the Word of God concerning it.

No, it's not. And remember, there are 613 commandments in the OT alone, proscribing what you eat, wear, and shave, when you work, how to plough, and exactly how to sacrifice the many animals called for and when. But nothing about polygamy.

contradictions in the bible???

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meh...

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