What do you feel is wrong with atheism?

logician said:

Why should one belief trump, or be more important than, the other. This puts both on an equal footing. Certainly many people believe in god because they are afraid to be considered godless.

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Do they?

It's not about elevating one above the other, I think that the characterisation of atheism as a response to theism is etymologically justified. To call yourself an atheist is to say you are not a theist. If they bore an equivalent linguistic relationship wouldn't being an atheist be "not a theist who is not not a theist who is not a theist who is....."

Ye follow?

I agreed with Dark Sun that there is nothing wrong with atheism (by itself). Atheists are entitled to follow this road that there being "no god".

But if you talking about atheists. There are good and bad atheists, just as there are good and bad theists. It is behaviour and conduct of individual atheist (or theist) that may be a problem, not the belief of there being 1 god, many gods or no god.

credance said:

I don't want to leave anyone out.

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1. Like any religion can be, atheism is not always controlled by reason, logic and facts. You may disagree with me but in this forum, I find most atheist have an emotional ax to grind. Their belief may be based on another person's hypocritical behavior or some other bad experience, like the death of a child or loved one. All these are bad experiences for which it would be just as easy to blame Satan or fate as God.
2. Atheist solve the problem of evil and good by ignoring it or believing evil does not exist.
3. Atheist do not offer a stable criteria for morality other than humanism, which is probably the most unstable standard or moral behavior. It is kin to might makes right or goes along with survival theories.
4. Evils such as communism, socialism, racial prejudice, mercy killings, state supremacy, etc. are promoted by atheism.
5. Atheism offers no reason to provide for your fellow man.
6. The golden mean is absurd in atheism.
7. Headism has a higher value than love in atheism.
8. There is no ontology in the philosophy of atheism.
9. Epistemological systems tend to fail in atheism.
10. Cosmology can not be adequately explained in atheism.
There are more things I do not like about atheism but that is a good start.
GadFly

GadFly said:

1. Like any religion can be, atheism is not always controlled by reason, logic and facts. You may disagree with me but in this forum, I find most atheist have an emotional ax to grind. Their belief may be based on another person's hypocritical behavior or some other bad experience, like the death of a child or loved one. All these are bad experiences for which it would be just as easy to blame Satan or fate as God.
2. Atheist solve the problem of evil and good by ignoring it or believing evil does not exist.
3. Atheist do not offer a stable criteria for morality other than humanism, which is probably the most unstable standard or moral behavior. It is kin to might makes right or goes along with survival theories.
4. Evils such as communism, socialism, racial prejudice, mercy killings, state supremacy, etc. are promoted by atheism.
5. Atheism offers no reason to provide for your fellow man.
6. The golden mean is absurd in atheism.
7. Headism has a higher value than love in atheism.
8. There is no ontology in the philosophy of atheism.
9. Epistemological systems tend to fail in atheism.
10. Cosmology can not be adequately explained in atheism.
There are more things I do not like about atheism but that is a good start.
GadFly

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Dude ... that was so dumb. :slap:

Gadfly said:

1. Like any religion can be, atheism is not always controlled by reason, logic and facts. You may disagree with me but in this forum, I find most atheist have an emotional ax to grind. Their belief may be based on another person's hypocritical behavior or some other bad experience, like the death of a child or loved one. All these are bad experiences for which it would be just as easy to blame Satan or fate as God.

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Sorry, but most atheists I have met personally, don't talk, write or read about religion. They just get on with their life, and don't participate theists and believers in debate.

Seriously, I don't talk to people about religion in real life. I don't ask people if they belonged to a religion or believe in anything. Religion and spirituality matters are personal. I come here to discuss, debate or learn, but leave my non-cyber-life out when I am not in this forum or others.

You will that the majority of atheists, agnostics and other non-theists will not choose to challenge your belief, because "your belief" is your own, and it is none of their business. And they deserved the same respect from you; it's none of your business in what they believe or don't believe.

The rest of your list is pure rubbish.

Hi Gadfly,

GadFly said:

1. Like any religion can be, atheism is not always controlled by reason, logic and facts.

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Unlike any religion, atheism is not a religion. Atheists might be zealous or emotional about atheism, but it does not alter the status of atheism. Atheism is a conclusion or position. Like theism it is not a religion of itself.

Gadfly said:

2. Atheist solve the problem of evil and good by ignoring it or believing evil does not exist.

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This is a problem with atheists and not atheism. For the record the Problem of Evil is not a problem for atheism.

Gadfly said:

3. Atheist do not offer a stable criteria for morality other than humanism, which is probably the most unstable standard or moral behavior. It is kin to might makes right or goes along with survival theories.

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Again this is a problem with atheists. A fictional one.

Atheism, by the way, does not offer a stable criteria for morality because it is not an ethical theory. I'll try to demonstrate why this is,

If Boy A feels unconvinced by the evidence/argumentation presented for X, he may conclude that he does not believe X. His status where X is concerned is disbelief. If I were to tell you that X is quantum theory, you would not then criticise his non-belief on the grounds that it can't offer a stable criteria for morality. Do you agree?

Gadfly said:

4. Evils such as communism, socialism, racial prejudice, mercy killings, state supremacy, etc. are promoted by atheism.

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No they aren't...

Oddly enough, a few sentences ago you equated atheism and humanism. Don't you perceive a bit of conflict in your understanding of the matter there?

Gadfly said:

5. Atheism offers no reason to provide for your fellow man.

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Neither does chocolate. Is this a problem with chocolate?

Put it this way, people did not stop believing in God in order to provide for their fellow man, although it might have helped.

Gadfly said:

6. The golden mean is absurd in atheism.

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The Golden Mean is irrelevant to atheism.

Gadfly said:

7. Headism has a higher value than love in atheism.

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Neither are dealt with.

Gadfly said:

8. There is no ontology in the philosophy of atheism.

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There is no philosophy of atheism as far as I know.

Gadfly said:

9. Epistemological systems tend to fail in atheism.

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What does that mean?

Gadfly said:

10. Cosmology can not be adequately explained in atheism.

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Atheism doesn't contain cosmology.

Gadfly said:

There are more things I do not like about atheism but that is a good start.
GadFly

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OK. I await your response.

credance said:

I don't want to leave anyone out.

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in my opinion what's wrong is UNAVOIDABLE LACK OF MEANING.

If only Atheists International would overturn the motion to boycott dictionaries....

Seriously speaking ... Athiests have to prove things.

Why do athiests have to prove anything? I mean ... religion plays with not satisfying any burden of proof, so we are we having to work our butts off when they wouldn't?

Double standards anyone?

Captain Civic said:

Dude ... that was so dumb. :slap:

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A GadFly dude has to have better questions with which to work. Let's see you do better.:cigarangel2:

gnostic said:

Sorry, but most atheists I have met personally, don't talk, write or read about religion. They just get on with their life, and don't participate theists and believers in debate.

Seriously, I don't talk to people about religion in real life. I don't ask people if they belonged to a religion or believe in anything. Religion and spirituality matters are personal. I come here to discuss, debate or learn, but leave my non-cyber-life out when I am not in this forum or others.

You will that the majority of atheists, agnostics and other non-theists will not choose to challenge your belief, because "your belief" is your own, and it is none of their business. And they deserved the same respect from you; it's none of your business in what they believe or don't believe.

The rest of your list is pure rubbish.

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You must be talking to the wrong fly. I did not ask the question of this thread. I only gave a direct answer without checking out with you if it was the proper thing to do. What you say about yourself may be true. Congratulations on your decorum. I could use a little of that myself. Yet, many of your co-hearts can not keep their opinions to themselves and that is why they are here. That is why they post thread here, because they invite me into their lives. Respect, sure. You can have all you deserve and you have nothing that I need to know as far as I know. So I will mind my own business and you are welcome to mind yours. Why did you even write this dumb note? Did something bite you?
GadFly

GadFly said:

A GadFly dude has to have better questions with which to work. Let's see you do better.:cigarangel2:

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Nice cop out.
Wonder if anyone is buying it?

GadFly said:

1. Like any religion can be, atheism is not always controlled by reason, logic and facts. You may disagree with me but in this forum, I find most atheist have an emotional ax to grind. Their belief may be based on another person's hypocritical behavior or some other bad experience, like the death of a child or loved one. All these are bad experiences for which it would be just as easy to blame Satan or fate as God.
2. Atheist solve the problem of evil and good by ignoring it or believing evil does not exist.
3. Atheist do not offer a stable criteria for morality other than humanism, which is probably the most unstable standard or moral behavior. It is kin to might makes right or goes along with survival theories.
4. Evils such as communism, socialism, racial prejudice, mercy killings, state supremacy, etc. are promoted by atheism.
5. Atheism offers no reason to provide for your fellow man.
6. The golden mean is absurd in atheism.
7. Headism has a higher value than love in atheism.
8. There is no ontology in the philosophy of atheism.
9. Epistemological systems tend to fail in atheism.
10. Cosmology can not be adequately explained in atheism.
There are more things I do not like about atheism but that is a good start.
GadFly

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Oh c'mon Gadfly. What is this list based on? I don't believe in God but I don't see my beliefs or way of life represented at all in this list. Sometimes I feel like people on this forum (both theists and atheists) have some lengthy definition of atheism and "what atheists believe" or "what they don't believe" but there is no atheist dogma. People put far too much weight on it. As just one example, I see PLENTY of reasons to provide for my fellow man. To me, the reasons can be seen without the lense of religion. If someone finds motivation to help others via their religion then that's wonderful. But you can't automatically assume others don't have that motivation if they don't have religion.

And I don't know, perhaps there are certain "evils" that could be attributed to atheism. But certainly the same could be said for religion. I'll refrain from giving examples as I am sure you know many of them and have heard them before.

I see lists like this and I think....maybe I'm not an atheist....maybe I don't fall into any category......

gadfly said:

You must be talking to the wrong fly. I did not ask the question of this thread.

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But I was addressing the OP; I was addressing your post.

credance said:

I don't want to leave anyone out.

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There's only one thing wrong with the atheist, They don't believe the way I do

The way I see it is I have several alternatives:
1 :slap: beat my way of thinking into them

2:tsk: try a good tongue lashing

3:eat: ask them to my house for dinner, Hoping the way to their heart is through their stomach

4:ignore:I could ignore them

5:group: I guess I'll just love them and accept them as they are!:foryou:

Neither are dealt with.
Here is your response:
You understand of course that I was not attacking atheist but simply answering the question posed in the thread. This represents what I did not like about atheism, which is why I have chosen a different path. Of course I realize that not every atheist believes everything that I referred to in why I do not care to be an atheist. And I defend your right to disagree. What I know about atheist are the things that I learned on this forum the few months I have been here. It has been an enlightening experience. My education on atheism has been at the hands of atheist. They can be a hard bunch but I like most of them, especially the ones willing to share their beliefs.

Unlike any religion, atheism is not a religion. Atheists might be zealous or emotional about atheism, but it does not alter the status of atheism. Atheism is a conclusion or position. Like theism it is not a religion of itself.

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I agree that some, not all atheist, are very emotional. It does not alter any conclusions to be emotional. But ultimately, when facts are reduced down or deduced as far as evidence will take one, I have yet had an atheist to come to a concrete conclusion. All they say is that you can not prove anything for sure or 100%. That is as close as they come to a position. It sounds like an argument of faith to me. But if that is all you have, use it.

This is a problem with atheists and not atheism. For the record the Problem of Evil is not a problem for atheism.

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I am not sure what you mean about atheism does not have a problem with evil but the atheist on this forum certainly discuss it often. It seems to me like they have a problem in explaining it. I would agree with you if you said everybody has this problem and maybe some don't, but that is not the experience expressed here on this forum.

Again this is a problem with atheists. A fictional one.

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It is more than fictional, humanism is by default the standard of morality for an atheist, unless he does not think that man exist either.

Atheism, by the way, does not offer a stable criteria for morality because it is not an ethical theory. I'll try to demonstrate why this is,

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Don't bother to demonstrate why atheism is not a moral theory because I agree with you, which also proves my point. Humanism or any other idea of atheists do not meet the criteria for moral and ethical conduct in the Western Civilization. Now that is a fact, and many on the moral fringe would like to reverse it so they would be free to do whatever their lust and passion would lead them to.

No they aren't...

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That's what I do not like about atheism. It fails, in this case, to recognize the greatest evil of the last century, which is communism, as evil. That might be because all the little commie atheist stick together against the morals of the Western Civilization. Again, that is simply fact.

Let's see, your reference to chocolate does not make sense to me. I am sure it is not your fault, I just don't know what you are saying. Now, about the golden mean, we agree, it is meaningless to atheist.

Ontology, the theory of being, we agree. Atheist have no ontology and epistemological theories have little or nothing upon which to base knowledge, logic or reasoning in the world of atheist. It makes me wonder how they survive in a cosmological world they can not adequately explain. But, I have hundreds of eyes with which to see (that fly thing).

Now let me say again, I know many atheist will want to take me to task over my opinions, but these are my opinions and represent what I do not appreciate about the beliefs of atheist. Other than these things atheist are just like me, except they can not fly or bite.:angel2:
GadFly

texan1 said:

Oh c'mon Gadfly. What is this list based on? I don't believe in God but I don't see my beliefs or way of life represented at all in this list. Sometimes I feel like people on this forum (both theists and atheists) have some lengthy definition of atheism and "what atheists believe" or "what they don't believe" but there is no atheist dogma. People put far too much weight on it. As just one example, I see PLENTY of reasons to provide for my fellow man. To me, the reasons can be seen without the lense of religion. If someone finds motivation to help others via their religion then that's wonderful. But you can't automatically assume others don't have that motivation if they don't have religion.

And I don't know, perhaps there are certain "evils" that could be attributed to atheism. But certainly the same could be said for religion. I'll refrain from giving examples as I am sure you know many of them and have heard them before.

I see lists like this and I think....maybe I'm not an atheist....maybe I don't fall into any category......

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Now Texan1, have I not always answered you questions in a measured and friendly manner? I am innocent here of any evil doing. Everybody knows I am an opinionated fly. I was even told to mind my own business before I even said a word on this thread. I actually thought the op wanted an honest answer. I said it was my opinion and all that apologetic stuff. I just don't know why nobody loves me. The life of a fly is hard.
GadFly

gnostic said:

But I was addressing the OP; I was addressing your post.

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I stay close to old time preachers who venture into the country sometimes. I heard one say that preaching the word was like throwing a rock into a patch of dog. He said the one that was hit with the rock would come out barking. Bark on brother.
The GadFly

Neo-Logic said:

Seriously speaking ... Athiests have to prove things.

Why do atheists have to prove anything? I mean ... religion plays with not satisfying any burden of proof, so we are we having to work our butts off when they wouldn't?

Double standards anyone?

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I have not seen any butts around here that were not connected. Has somebody challenged your belief, surly not on a debate forum like this? Don't feel bad, for like you say, you have nothing to prove. I am certainly not asking you to do the impossible because I know you don't believe in super natural events.
GadFly

GadFly said:

You must be talking to the wrong fly. I did not ask the question of this thread. I only gave a direct answer without checking out with you if it was the proper thing to do. What you say about yourself may be true. Congratulations on your decorum. I could use a little of that myself. Yet, many of your co-hearts can not keep their opinions to themselves and that is why they are here. That is why they post thread here, because they invite me into their lives. Respect, sure. You can have all you deserve and you have nothing that I need to know as far as I know. So I will mind my own business and you are welcome to mind yours. Why did you even write this dumb note? Did something bite you?
GadFly

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Congratulations on your self-awareness of ego!