Born agian = incarnation

Hello everyone

Id like to compare notes regarding what you think is the meaning of being BORN again.

I have recently contemplated whether being born again means we have to be incarnated.

(NOT RE-incarnated)

But anyway, Jesus seemed determined to let us know that we must not MARVEL at the idea that we have to be born again.

Together with the above statement of Jesus and the event where he said that we must not forbid the little children to come to him for the kingdom consisted of such, I am left to believe that we are perhaps missing something regarding the meaning of being BORN AGAIN.

Tradisionally being born again, means that you receive Jesus as your lord and saviour.

I dont think that is entirely correct.

If you will indulge me, I will try to explain very briefly what I think BORN again means.

It means...YES, you HAVE to be BORN AGAIN.

Meaning you have to be born from a mother, but not as a result of the human desire but because you are born by the desire of GOD for you to be here.

If we start at the beginning, the bible says that the natural man comes first and then the spiritual. As I interpret it, it means you are born a natural man, and then you are born again, a spiritual man.

When you are born a natural man, you are born a slave. Sinful, and unable to overcome the fleshly nature.

When you are born a spiritual man, you are born free. Free to walk out of darkness and into the light

Once you were born a natural man, under the law, and a slave to sin, and since you were a slave, you had no means, or no right to leave your master.

Jesus was your randsom, to buy you from your slave master.

He set you free, and who the son sets free, is free indeed.

So when he died he set your free, BUT you need to use that freedom to walk out of darkness and into the light.

To do that you need to be born under grace, not under the law, a slave to sin.

You therefore, like Jesus have to be INCARNATED. Your spirit comes from HEAVEN and enters the body of your mother, and you are born of water, blood AND the spirit.

When you were born a natural man, you were born of water and of blood only.

This spiritual man, has been given the power to overcome sin, whereas the natural man had no such power!

Jesus was the first fruits of those that would be born of the spirit.

Jesus was said to be the ONLY one that have come from heaven.

So,...where does your spirit come from when you are incarnated?

Im not sure, really, it could be heaven, it could be paradise. Hence Jesus could tell the thief on the cross that he would see him in paradise, since he was about to go and set him free from his slave master.

So our spirits were in a very dark place, and when Jesus died he took the keys that kept our spirits locked up there and unable to leave the slave master.At that point we were free. IF we were in christ we were also RESSURECTED with him.

And our spirits joined him in heaven or paradise. It is from here that we are incarnated.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the spirit is spirit. The spirit you have when you are incarnated is powerfull to overcome the world and the evil tendencies of the flesh.

How do we know if we are born of the spirit? We do not continue to sin, since we have the power to not sin anymore. The natural man had no such power. We are overcomers in this world, since the SEED of GOD remains in us.

There is a bit of a complication though. Even though you are born a spiritual man, you need to overcome the flesh, and to those that overcome they will be called the sons of God.

So even though you are free, born free, you have to follow the path of the cross.

You have to die to the flesh nature that wars with your spiritual nature. But being born of the spirit you HAVE the power to overcome the flesh.

I think the reason God did not take away our fleshly nature is so that we make a determined decision to have nothing to do with the fleshly nature and to prove ourselves overcomers. To work out our salvation with fear and trembling. As free men and women, we have to use that freedom, NOT to sin, but to overcome!

Jesus overcame the flesh, and we have to do the same, and we CAN if we are born of the spirit.

Some people would probably ask, how do you get born by the desire of God, and not because of human desire.

Well, the spirit the bible says, is like the wind, you neither know where it comes from or where it goes. It is the spirit of God that moves over your mothers womb, were there is complete darkness and out of the darkness he creates you. And while you are in your mothers womb in complete darkness the spirit is hovering over you all the time. And like a litte seed that is planted in darkness you are born to be a light bearer.

Of course it does not mean that your mom and dad did not get up close and personal, it just means that the baby that is born, is not as a result of THEIR desire, but because the spirit of God was there when you were concieved. And so there are three witnesses to your birth. Water from your mother, blood from your mother, and the spirit, hovering over your mothers womb.

YOU were born for such a time as this!

Please let me know what your thoughts on being BORN again is.

Love
Heneni

"Born again", to me, means shedding attachment to rigid and certain identity by expanding awareness of how symbols, words and ideas determine the reality I perceive, and then experiencing being and the universe of my experience increasingly free of preconceived notions and symbolic boundaries.

It is not a one time event, but a process, or more aptly, a infinitely recurring cyclical process.

Heneni said:

Meaning you have to be born from a mother, but not as a result of the human desire but because you are born by the desire of GOD for you to be here. If we start at the beginning, the bible says that the natural man comes first and then the spiritual. As I interpret it, it means you are born a natural man, and then you are born again, a spiritual man. When you are born a natural man, you are born a slave. Sinful, and unable to overcome the fleshly nature. When you are born a spiritual man, you are born free. Free to walk out of darkness and into the light. Once you were born a natural man, under the law, and a slave to sin, and since you were a slave, you had no means, or no right to leave your master. Jesus was your ransom, to buy you from your slave master. He set you free, and who the son sets free, is free indeed. So when he died he set your free, BUT you need to use that freedom to walk out of darkness and into the light. To do that you need to be born under grace, not under the law, a slave to sin. You therefore, like Jesus have to be INCARNATED. Your spirit comes from HEAVEN and enters the body of your mother, and you are born of water, blood AND the spirit. When you were born a natural man, you were born of water and of blood only. This spiritual man, has been given the power to overcome sin, whereas the natural man had no such power!

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Much ado about nothing, it seems.

Some people would probably ask, how do you get born by the desire of God, and not because of human desire. Well, the spirit the bible says, is like the wind, you neither know where it comes from or where it goes. It is the spirit of God that moves over your mothers womb, were there is complete darkness and out of the darkness he creates you. And while you are in your mothers womb in complete darkness the spirit is hovering over you all the time. And like a litte seed that is planted in darkness you are born to be a light bearer. Of course it does not mean that your mom and dad did not get up close and personal, it just means that the baby that is born, is not as a result of THEIR desire, but because the spirit of God was there when you were concieved. And so there are three witnesses to your birth. Water from your mother, blood from your mother, and the spirit, hovering over your mothers womb.

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What makes you think the experience of the Womb is one of immersion in complete darkness? Do you remember what it was like in there?

Please let me know what your thoughts on being BORN Again is.

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Metanoia.

Within historical biblical Christianity, being born again has nothing to do with the incarnation. Jesus Christ is the eternal God within the god-head of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God became flesh (incarnation) when Jesus Christ was sent by His Father into the world 2,000 years ago (Christmas - Nativity account) to rescue His people for their sins. Incarnation means God in the flesh.

John 1

The Word Became Flesh

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Being born again has to do with a spiritual birth of a Christian. Within historical biblical Christianity, all humanity is physically born into this world spirituality dead and in enmity with God due to their rebellion against God. Everyone is spirituality blind and dead to God in a relational basis. The Bible teaches that those who have not been born again have Satan as their Father. Therefore, a spirituality dead person needs to be born again by the Spirit of God to be alive to God in a relational basis, enabling the spirituality person to call God abba Father since the new birth adopts you into the family of God. The new spiritual birth transfers you from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light. Without being born again, a person does not have the Spirit of God dwell in him. Therefore, the man without the Spirit of God cannot discen spiritual things because he is spirituality dead. A person needs to be born again to understand spiritual truth and be alive to God.

Corinthians 2

When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.

Wisdom From the Spirit

We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. However, as it is written:
"No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him"—but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
"For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

Hello Fish

Thank you for your respons.

What you are propossing then, is that a person is born again, spiritually, when they 'accept Jesus as their lord and saviour', am I correct?

If its not what you are saying, please let me know...but if that is the case, is there any biblical proof that you are BORN again, when you accept the lord Jesus as your lord and saviour, when for example you say a prayer or you go forward for an altercall.

I cant find proof in the bible that the moment you are spiritually reborn, is when you 'accept' Jesus as your lord and saviour.

Good to hear from you
Love
Heneni

For anyone that would like to also contribute to this discussion

Here are a few scriptures:

4for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

51Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God,

. 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

29If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him.

. 12But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.

23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. (THE WORD...is JESUS made flesh)

23His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.

. 4But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. 6Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba,A Father."

7So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.

, "You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."

-- 13children born not of natural descent,C nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

11I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist;

Heneni said:

Hello Fish

Thank you for your respons.

What you are propossing then, is that a person is born again, spiritually, when they 'accept Jesus as their lord and saviour', am I correct?

If its not what you are saying, please let me know...but if that is the case, is there any biblical proof that you are BORN again, when you accept the lord Jesus as your lord and saviour, when for example you say a prayer or you go forward for an altercall.

I cant find proof in the bible that the moment you are spiritually reborn, is when you 'accept' Jesus as your lord and saviour.

Good to hear from you
Love
Heneni

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I agree with your statement. The Bible does not teach sinner's prayers and altar calls for the new birth. The Bible never teaches that someone "accepts" Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. It is clear that the Bible proclaims Jesus Christ "AS" Lord and Savior. Jesus "IS" Lord and Savior, regardless if someone acknowledges that proclamation. I think altar calls and sinner's prayers can be traced back to the 2nd Great Awakening in America with Charles Finney. The theological term calls this modern day phenomenon as decisional regeneration. Because all people are born into this world as being spiritually dead, nobody has the ability to "accept" Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. The work of the Spirit of God is needed to enable a person to believe in Jesus Christ. In John chapter 3, Jesus tells us the new birth is like the wind. The Holy Spirit like the wind blows mysteriously... causing the new birth of God's elect by hearing the gospel proclaimed.

Hello Random

Well its not like there was a street lights in the womb...so for arguments sake, it was pretty dark in there, and I dont have to remember it, its just that it plain as day, that there are no light switches in the womb.

Being "born again" means being born of the (Holy) Spirit. When the Holy Spirit begins to reside in a person, that person is born again. In American evangelicalism, it sounds as though "receiving Jesus" is equivalent to this, but it's not. Consider this passage:

John 1:12 - 13:
"But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God, who were born, not of blood or of the will of the flesh or of the will of man, but of God."

Here we see that being "born...of God" is contrasted with being born of blood, born of the will of the flesh, and being born of the will of man. So being born of God is not a matter of being born of blood. This may mean a couple of things. First, John might be trying to undercut the Jewish claim to special status by their genetic heritage from Abraham. This would make sense of a lot of what Jesus had to say during his ministry. For example:

John 8:39 - 45 39
They answered him, ‘Abraham is our father.’

Jesus said to them, ‘If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing what Abraham did, but now you are trying to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. You are indeed doing what your father does.’

They said to him, ‘We are not illegitimate children; we have one father, God himself.’

Jesus said to them, ‘If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now I am here. I did not come on my own, but he sent me. Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot accept my word. You are from your father the devil, and you choose to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me."

This passage is complex. The Jewish claim was that they had genetic descent from Abraham. Thus they were children of Abraham. But Jesus says that there's an important sense in which they are not children of Abraham. Children are apt to look like their fathers, but Jesus charges that they are illegitimate children because they don't act as Abraham did (or would). Jesus' opponents retorted that they were children of God. They made this boast probably because they were the stewards of God's revelation and the nation with whom God had covenanted. Jesus claimed that they couldn't have been children of God because despite the fact that Jesus is from God, they opposed him and even wanted to kill him. Their actual "father" was the devil.

So being "born again" is a matter of changing one's father from the devil to the living God.

So the question remains how one is born again. The key passage is of course John 3:5 - 8. After Nicodemus expresses surprise that the people of God (the Jewish nation) must be born again, Jesus continues:

‘Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit.* Do not be astonished that I said to you, “You* must be born from above.”* The wind* blows where it chooses, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.’

So Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be "born again." Then it appears that Jesus is using other terms interchangeably with it: "born of the Spirit" and "born from above." It thus appears that all these terms: "born again," "born of the Spirit," "born of God," and "born from above" all denote the same event. And so how does this event take place? This brings us back to John 1:12 - 13:

"But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God, who were born, not of blood or of the will of the flesh or of the will of man, but of God."

If you receive Jesus, you become a child of God born of God. So what does it mean to "receive" Jesus? It means, among other things, to welcome gladly. But it also means to acknowledge who he is, namely Lord and Master. So receiving Jesus implies submission to him.

It should be noted how different this is from simply "inviting Jesus into your heart." Jesus is the Lord of All. He's not waiting for an invitation. He's making a rightful demand to your loyalty. Your options are to submit and gain blessing or remain aloof and remain under a curse. It helps that the Lord you are submitting to actually loves you, but that doesn't change what Jesus is demanding.

So no, being born again is not "asking/inviting Jesus into your heart." Being born again is receiving new life from God as a result of acknowledging and submitting to His Son.

Fish-Hunter said:

The work of the Spirit of God is needed to enable a person to believe in Jesus Christ. In John chapter 3, Jesus tells us the new birth is like the wind. The Holy Spirit like the wind blows mysteriously... causing the new birth of God's elect by hearing the gospel proclaimed.

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Yes, well put.

Ok then we agree, but when is it that you think you first heard the GOSPEL?

When someone preached it to you??

Consider this scripture:

. 18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whomD also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledgeE of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand--with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

Hello Dune

The scripture in John

Yet to all who received him, (past tense) to those who believed in his name (past tense), he gave the right to become children of God-- 13children born (present tense) not of natural descent,C nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

Heneni said:

Hello Dune

The scripture in John

Yet to all who received him, (past tense) to those who believed in his name (past tense), he gave the right to become children of God-- 13children born (present tense) not of natural descent,C nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

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Yes, but John wrote his gospel for Christians alive at the time, well past the events of Jesus' life. I think it's safe to assume that even though the word is in the past tense, it's speaking of a general principle. Those who received Jesus before were born again. And it's the same for us. If we receive Jesus in the present, we will be born again.

This is certainly born out in the rest of the gospel, especially the very end, where John states why he wrote the gospel:

31John 20:30-31
Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book. But these are written so that you may come to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through believing you may have life in his name.

You are born of the Spirit by "receiving" Jesus. Another way of putting that is "believe he is the Messiah." John wrote his gospel so that we might believe in Jesus and so have life, that is, so that we might have the Spirit of God indwell us.

Hello Dune!


6For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. (spirit being YOUR spirit, not the HOLY spirit)

Hello Dune

What you say BORN of the spirit means is the HOLY spirit comes to live IN you, when you make the decision to accept Jesus.

I say that when you are born of god, your spirit comes from GOD when you are conceived. The HOLY spirit is the one that RESTS upon you and have been with you since your conception. Its by the HOLY spirit that is with you from your birth, that you are drawn to God. No one can come to him unless He draws them.

Once you were born a natural man, then you have to be born a spiritual man, ie. your spirit comes from GOD.

Your spirit that comes from GOD, was ressurrected with Jesus IF you were IN him on the cross.

Whether you were IN him on the cross depends on whether you paid attention to the gospel when it was preached to you while you were a NATURAL man, born of natural desire, and not born of GOD.

When you were born of human desire, you were born of flesh. When you are born as a baby by the desire of God, you are BORN of GOD.

The bible does not teach that when you accept Jesus as your lord and saviour is when you become BORN of GOD.

When the gospel is preached, it is foolishness to some. But those who HAVE (present tense) the spirit of truth, listens to the truth. You can not have the spirit of truth if you are not born of of God, since our spirits testify to the truth. The truth preached to those that are not born spiritually can not understand the truth, because they are not born of God. Our spirits are refered to as spirits of truth, since others are referred to as having a different spirit, and they listen to their father the devil, who has NO truth in him.

To accept the truth, you have to be born of GOD first, you dont get BORN again when you accept the truth. You are born again, when you are born of a mother, but by the will of GOD.

The purpose of the HS is to remind you of the gospel since you have no recollection of the gospel when you were born of natural desire.

The prophets of the old testament knew of the gospel because the Holy Spirit teached them about it.

12It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven.

This is why Jesus said that it is good that he goes away so that the HOLY spirit could come and REMIND us of what the gospel is all about. And when the truth is preached to us, our spirits accept it because our spirit is born of GOD.

We are 'born again' through baptism.

Q: What is the inward and spiritual grace in Baptism?
A: The inward and spiritual grace in Baptism is union with Christ in his death and resurrection, birth into God's family the Church, forgiveness of sins, and new life in the Holy Spirit.

I think the earliest re-incarnation thoughts are Hindu. So...you know.

Re-incarnation, to me is simple. It is a soul (essentialy what you REALLY are) that enters a body. Without a soul in a body, there is no life. Similarly, you do not see clothes walking around, there must be a person wearing those clothes. Re-incarnation is more or less this to me.

I hear some phrase it as "the re-cycling of atoms" Sounds nice. Though the soul is no atom. Or atoms.

Heneni said:

Hello Dune!


6For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. (spirit being YOUR spirit, not the HOLY spirit)

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The first time you hear the gospel is when it is proclaimed to you. Regeneration comes before faith....or a new heart is given to enable someone to believe.

Romans 10

Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them." But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down)"or 'Who will descend into the deep?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?" Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
"Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world." Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says,
"I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;
I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding." And Isaiah boldly says,
"I was found by those who did not seek me;
I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me." But concerning Israel he says,
"All day long I have held out my hands
to a disobedient and obstinate people."

Ephesians 1-2
Spiritual Blessings in Christ

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.

For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

Made Alive in Christ

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Hi Fish!

About this scripture:

The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,"

The word is said to be already IN your mouth and IN your heart. So, what remains? Is for you to BELIEVE that which is in your heart, and to CONFESS with your mouth.This is EVIDENCE that you are born of GOD. Ofcourse if you have the wrong idea of what the gospel is no amount of confessing and believing is going to make you a son of god either.

that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:

I.e that which is IN your heart and ON your mouth is what they are proclaiming, and your spirit testifies to the truth they are proclaiming. Your spirit wont be doing this if you are not BORN OF GOD.

That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

The last part of this scripture says that you are saved when you confess with your mouth. You dont get born again when you confess, when you confess it is evidence that you are BORN AGAIN.

"Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Who is it that call upon the name of the LORD? Those that have the spirit of truth in them, which you only recieve when you are BORN of GOD.

How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in?
They cant.

And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard?

This is why the gospel has to be preached so that your spirit can testify with the truth, and if your spirit accepts the truth you have been BORN of GOD.

And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good.

The purpose of preaching the gospel is so that your spirit of truth can testify to the truth you hear, and so that you can be assured that you have been BORN OF GOD.

But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

This scripture explains how you got saved, not born again. You were dead, but IF you were IN christ when he died, you have been raised up with him as well. This was the point where your spirit was set free from slavery to sin, and this spirit is the spirit that enters you mothers womb, in which case you will be BORN of GOD.

Love
Heneni.

Hello Don!

Im not advocating re-incarnation. :cover:.

Incarnation is different in the sense that the natural man has to be born a spiritual man.

What I am saying is that INCARNATION is only the same as RE-incarnation in the sense that there has to be another, but quite different birth.

The first birth is because of human impuls and desire, and the second is because God sends your spirit into your mother, by his will and design. This spirit is the spirit of truth, and testifies to the truth of the gospel when you hear it as a child BORN OF GOD.

Love
Heneni.