Just because there are Christians who twist the scriptures to meet their needs does not make it OK. It also does not make it OK (IMO of course) for Muslims to do the same.
I agree with you but as a muslim I don't think we try to twist it. For we do not know which context to take based on the verses contained.
It just there are so many christians with different ideologies that if we side with one meaning we try to look at it from one group of Christianity perspective. We would disagree and sound like we are twisting with another. If we take the side of the baptist as being the correct understanding or context of the religion when presenting the side of christianity to a catholic, seventh day adventis, mormon, JW etc we will disagree.
So who is twisting it and who is not. Not from our perspective but yours as christians? What is the correct understanding? Is Jesus God? Is He the son of God only? Is He the part of three all coexisting as one entity yet seperate? communion? Deeds are not neccessary just faith? Baptizm? Communion? Popes? Saints? Holiday pagan or not? Who is correct who is doing what Jesus said and who is not? Who is the true followers of Christ for everyone cannot be correct?
So what do we do as muslims, We use the Quran as the canon, or measurement to find out the truth in it because the christians make it hard for us to sort it out, no fault of any christians present today or on this forum. Allah says things were mentioned in earlier scriptures but people changed it and altered it. Surah Maidah (5):13,:41. Just read the whole surah if you can from the 1st to 41st.
and the same premise is also illustrated in the bible, in Jeremiah 8:8 and by many scholars church authorities and authors. theologians and sestagents. And the highest of scholarly church and academic authority.
and it's really not that we say it is invalid. It is altered and changed. And these changes were not authorized by God or Jesus. Just random no name scribes according to some of the church and christian scholars and historians. This is what they say, so what are we as muslims to think? If Church fathers, theolgians and other biblical authorities from early christian history to the present are saying that it is altered. And the Quran is telling us it is altered, and the bible says that the Jews altered the text again what are we supposed to think? I am not sure again I apologize I do not want to sound condemning
Why do you feel it necessary to affirm your prophet to Christians by finding characteristics of him in a Bible which you otherwise find 'invalid?' So far, the only Biblical mentions I've found predicting the arrival of prophets like Muhammed is in passages such as
this one...
Is not the one you found sufficient? How many verses do you need to believe that he is mentioned? If it says he is mentioned and you say you found one. Is that not an evidence that the Quran speaks the truth. Wait, don't answer that lol! You may look at this as I am trying to make you say something, very misleading I am sorry. I am not trying to make you say that lol
And I apologize if you feel I or muslims need to affirm Prophet Muhammed in the bible. I really do not need to as a muslim. And I think sometimes in us trying to show you something as far as what we believe in the Quran and Sunnah. We forget the etiquettes of delivering the Message or the etiquettes of dawah which is illustrated for us in our religion. So I apologize. It is easy to cast blame on my fellow brothers and christians, They say this they say that. But what am I doing? I hope that in what I am going to say that you look at it as not an attack on belief. But just a transfer of information and ideology based on of the scriptural evidence at least from my perspective and others who. So that perhaps maybe together we can bridge the gap of misunderstanding concerning this issue and find a way to discuss without beating each other down. Again please do not look at this as an attack or me twisting things for because of the subject matter it is hard to know who to follow so I will let the Christians sort it out.
Now the reason muslims look for these types of things is because the Quran tells us that he and his characteristics have been mentioned in the previous scriptures. So as muslims when we read verses like in the Gen 21:21 where Abraham took Ishmael and Hagar and made a settlement in Mecca, called Paran in bible. the well of Zam Zam is mentioned in Gen 21:19. And this is something known in our Islamic history so we look at it as truth.
We also read in the criterion of the Prophet of Jeremiah 28:9 about the prophet of peace and Islam signifies that for us as muslims, so we believe since it is Islam and Muhammed is its prophet we believe this verse could be talking about Muhammed as this particular individual. And because of the statements of Jesus in Luke 12:51-53 we say this is not associated with him
We also read about Shiloh, concerning the message of Jacob to his children before he died in Gen 49:1, when he tells them about the last days. Gen 49:10 how the scepter will not depart until shiloh comes and everyone will gather to him. Liguistically shiloh means tranquility or peace. So Israelite prophethood would stop when shiloh comes. Like in Surah Baqarah 2:133 in the Quran: "Were you witnessess when death came to Jacob? When he said to his sons, What will you worship after me?" They said, "We shall worship Allah, the God of you fathers Abraham, Ishmael, and Ishaq, One God and to Him we surrender [in Islam].
The shift was also mentioned in Jeremiah 31:36 and Jesus hinted to it in Matthew 21:43, "therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."
so when we look at the lineage of Prophethood through Abraham and the inheritants of his two sons as described in Gen. the succession of Prophethood for Israel was lost but at what point? It had to be after Jesus, and since Jesus never said another Prophet wouldn't come after him we cannot say prophet Muhammed is a false prophet. But since Jesus gave us the signs to recognize a false prophet we use it as a measurement. But why would we need to recognize signs of a false prophet if Jesus is it. If He was it then He would have said no one is coming after me. At least that what I think again you know I could be wrong but if Jesus didn't say no one was coming after him then I cannot say it for him and assume that everyone coming after him is false. I will know him by the signs.
We read things like Baca is Mecca in Surah 3:96 Bacca is mentioned, as is Mecca methioned in Surah 48:24. The two are synonymous in the Quran. And it is mentioned also by Prophet Dawood alaihi salam in Psalm 84:6. When it mentions the valley of Baca and a well. What is the well in Mecca. Zam Zam of courxe.
Isaiah chapter 60 describes the house of glory beautiful verses.
1.
Arise, shine for thy light is come and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee. compare with Surah 74:1-3 O you [Muhammed] wrapped up in garments! Arise and warn! And your Lord magnify!"
2.
For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth and gross darkness the people, but the Lord shall arise upon thee,... Advent of Muhammed was at a time of darkness when the world forgot the Oneness of God as taught by Abraham, Moses and all other Prophets including Jesus.
3.
"And the Gentiles shall come to thy light and kings to the brightness of thy rising.." Lift up thine eyes round about, and see all they gather themselves together, they come to thee..." Within 23 years the whole of Arabia was united under Islam by an illiterate shepard.
4.
"...because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of Gentiles shall come unto thee." Within a century Islam took over 2/3 of the world
5.
"The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah, all they from sheba shall come, they shall bring gold and incense;... "All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee, they shall come up with acceptance on mine alter, and I will glorify the house of my glory." The tribes of Kedar who is Kedar the bible teaches us in Gen 13 that Kedar is a decendant of Ishmael who settled in the land of Paran or Mecca which bible again confirms. so if we look at the statements made by the bible. the house of my glory refers to the House of Allah in Mecca and not the church of christ. It is a fact that the villages of Kedar (Arabia especially holy cities) has not been influenced by the Church. And was always under the religious decrees of the Quran and sunnah.
6. therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; they men may bring unto thee the foreces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought." It is a fact that the mosque surrounding the Holy Ka'bah in Mecca has remained open day and night since it was cleansed by Prophet Muhammed peace be upon him from the idols 1400 years ago. Rulers as well as subjects came for Pilgrimage.
