Christian: What is Worship?

Joannicius · Mar 2, 2005

Is worship something we understand or experience every day?

How do we know when we are worshiping the God that created all things, or are we?

Is worship the same as veneration?

Scuba Pete · Mar 2, 2005

For me, worship is serving others. Whether it is helping feed the poor, or teaching Scouts values while they are having fun, worship is sacrificing my life a few minutes at a time.

michel · Mar 2, 2005

NetDoc said:
For me, worship is serving others. Whether it is helping feed the poor, or teaching Scouts values while they are having fun, worship is sacrificing my life a few minutes at a time.

Whilst I was trying to think of some profound answer I saw your definition, NetDoc; I can't better that. Fruballs to you!

Doc · Mar 2, 2005

If God is present in everything, and we do an act to help whatever that thing is, then we are worshiping God.

No*s · Mar 2, 2005

Joannicius said:
Is worship something we understand or experience every day?

How do we know when we are worshiping the God that created all things, or are we?

Is worship the same as veneration?

I'll have to get back to this later

.

Melody · Mar 2, 2005

NetDoc said:
For me, worship is serving others. Whether it is helping feed the poor, or teaching Scouts values while they are having fun, worship is sacrificing my life a few minutes at a time.

That reminds me of something I just read about who found greater favor in God's sight....the monks who prayed on their knees for 10 hours each day or the monk who joyfully cooked their meals. The author was making the point that praying is fine, but we truly worship when we serve others.

Master Vigil · Mar 2, 2005

On a christian perspective. I agree with NetDoc. I know even as the monastic and friar societies evolved they realized this as well. Which is why the benedictine order required work, and the franciscans built churches, and monks were used to missionary work and charity work. Even as a taoist, the greatest virtue is taking on the wants and needs of others as our own. I feel that is the same.

precept · Mar 2, 2005

"They that worship Him Must worship Him in spirit and in truth".....John 4:24.

This statement of Jesus makes the point that God desires worship, solely on His terms.

The ancient Jews decided to worship God on theirterms. Jesus' response? Read Mark 7:7 " But in vain they do worship me; teaching for doctrines the commandmenmts of men"

They that worship Him, says Jesus, MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH...Fot the Father seeketh such to worship Him". John 4:23

precept

No*s · Mar 3, 2005

Joannicius said:
Is worship something we understand or experience every day?

How do we know when we are worshiping the God that created all things, or are we?

Is worship the same as veneration?

I would tend to say that worship involves a sacrifice of sorts, the Eucharist to participate in Christ's sacrifice in the NT, and the various sacrifices of the Old Testament. Thus communal worship is designed to be sacrificial by nature.

Worship also involves adoration, whether individual or communal. Adoration is the giving of the highest, most expressive praise possible. We venerate people all the time, but we do not worship them.

Lastly, like NetDoc, I think worship is something we express in our lives. If I treat a human rightly, I am worshipping the creator

.

Joannicius · Mar 3, 2005

I think worship is our life given. What or who we give our life to is what or whom we worship. Sadly we see many giving their lives to pleasure, sports, etc. with their other aspects of life lived void of commitment or true love. I contend that the deepest adoration we have in our hearts and lives (treating others as we should knowing the love of our creator with compassion and self-sacrificing love, or as Lazar Puhalo would say co-suffering love) with the purity of heart and not any self seeking motive, expresses our worship. Agreeing with NetDoc, Doc and No*s

Veneration on the other hand is not worship and No*s you are correct that it is something we should express and give every day to others. A lot of error is in "Christendom" thinking we give the Saints and Mary worship when it is high reverence and veneration with the highest given to Mary as a perfect example....not a perfect human. If we worship anyone or anything other than the Trinity we error and are in need of healing and deliverance from bondage. The Councils forbid the worship of Mary or Icons (which they addressed because of the error) or anyone or anything other than the Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Melody - - An interesting note along this thought is that the monks and nuns are known as the scientists of the worship and knowledge of God. I have found them to be the most hospitable people I know. (see the post on "Origin of Heresy")

Precept - that is truth.

Vigil - the goal of the Orthodox monks and nuns (and should be for all ) is to be busy with our lives, usually sleeping and/or resting six hours a day and less.

precept · Mar 3, 2005

Joannicius said:
Precept - that is truth..

Not true!...Those are "your" words! Joannicius....Not God's!.

It is God's words that is Truth!. John 17:17.

precept

Joannicius · Mar 4, 2005

precept said:
"They that worship Him Must worship Him in spirit and in truth".....John 4:24.

This statement of Jesus makes the point that God desires worship, solely on His terms.

The ancient Jews decided to worship God on theirterms. Jesus' response? Read Mark 7:7 " But in vain they do worship me; teaching for doctrines the commandmenmts of men"

They that worship Him, says Jesus, MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH...Fot the Father seeketh such to worship Him". John 4:23

precept

I was speaking of the above post ! !

THAT IS TRUTH ! ! !

keevelish · Mar 15, 2005

worship is doing God's will.

may · Mar 16, 2005

"This is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments."1 JOHN 5:3.

Regarding the obligation that humans have to worship God, Jesus said: "You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind." (Matthew 22:37) How should we demonstrate this love? The Bible answers: "This is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments." (1 John 5:3) With what fine result to those who do? John said: "He that remains in love remains in union with God."1 John 4:16b.

If we love God, we will not give our worship to any creature, alive or dead, but to God only. (Luke 4:7, 8) The apostle Peter, and even an angel, refused to accept worship from humans. (Acts 10:25, 26; Revelation 22:8, 9) Also, Jesus showed that his mother, Mary, should not be given any worshipful honor, for such belongs only to God. (Luke 11:27, 28; John 2:3, 4; Revelation 4:11) Misdirecting ones worship will result in conflict with Gods commandments, for "no one can slave for two masters."Matthew 6:24

Joannicius · Mar 16, 2005

keevelish said:
worship is doing God's will.

That is definately a broad brush....... but true.

Joannicius · Mar 16, 2005

may said:
"This is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments."1 JOHN 5:3.

Regarding the obligation that humans have to worship God, Jesus said: "You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind." (Matthew 22:37) How should we demonstrate this love? The Bible answers: "This is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments." (1 John 5:3) With what fine result to those who do? John said: "He that remains in love remains in union with God."1 John 4:16b.

If we love God, we will not give our worship to any creature, alive or dead, but to God only. (Luke 4:7, 8) The apostle Peter, and even an angel, refused to accept worship from humans. (Acts 10:25, 26; Revelation 22:8, 9) Also, Jesus showed that his mother, Mary, should not be given any worshipful honor, for such belongs only to God. (Luke 11:27, 28; John 2:3, 4; Revelation 4:11) Misdirecting ones worship will result in conflict with Gods commandments, for "no one can slave for two masters."Matthew 6:24

I love that scripture (in union with God) ... our goal, as Christians. At least it should be.
We call that goal "Theosis" The Saints of old say "God became man so man may become god." I love it.

"worshipful honor"... what is that type of honor, May? Can we give Mary high honor as the one who gave birth to God in the flesh? I think she is due more honor than any man I know on this earth, at this present time, and that is quite a lot of honor....... no?
I think we can, without it being worship.

BUDDY · Mar 16, 2005

Worship is defined by the Bible. It is a specified time in which we devote to God and remember the sacrifice of his son. Not all of life is worship. Not everything that we do, even if it is kind, is worship. The way I understand the Bible, there is a distinct difference between setting aside a time for worship and living an obedient life. The two are not the same to me.

may · Mar 17, 2005

Joannicius said:
I love that scripture (in union with God) ... our goal, as Christians. At least it should be.
We call that goal "Theosis" The Saints of old say "God became man so man may become god." I love it.

"worshipful honor"... what is that type of honor, May? Can we give Mary high honor as the one who gave birth to God in the flesh? I think she is due more honor than any man I know on this earth, at this present time, and that is quite a lot of honor....... no?
I think we can, without it being worship.

when Mary was notified by an angel that she would bear a son, she was told: "Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. For that reason also what is born will be called holy, Gods Son." (Luke 1:35) So Jesus was Gods Son, not God himself in human form. Hence, Mary was the mother of Gods son Jesus, not the mother of God in human form. That is why neither Jesus nor his disciples ever called Mary the "mother of God."

The way Jesus viewed his mother indicates her relative position. At a marriage feast in Cana, the Bible account tells us: "When the wine ran short the mother of Jesus said to him: They have no wine. But Jesus said to her. What have I to do with you, woman?" Here the Roman Catholic Douay Version of the Bible reads: "Woman, what is that to me and to thee?" (John 2:3, 4) On another occasion, someone said to him: "Happy is the womb that carried you and the breasts that you sucked!" That was a fine opportunity for Jesus to give special honor to his mother and to show that others should do the same. Instead, Jesus said: "No, rather, Happy are those hearing the word of God and keeping it!"Luke 11:27, 28.

Such references show that Jesus took care not to give devotion or undue honor to Mary or to address her by any special title. He did not allow their relationship to influence him. And the apostles and disciples followed his example, for nowhere in their inspired writings is Mary given any undue honor, title, or influence. While they respected her as the mother of Jesus, they did not go beyond that. Certainly they never referred to her as the "mother of God." They knew that Jesus was not Almighty God in human form and, hence, that Mary could not possibly be Gods mother, a position far beyond what Gods Word allows for Mary.

precept · Mar 17, 2005

"What is true worship?" is the question the "woman of Samaria" asked Very God. The answer very God gave then is the same answer He gives today. " They that worship "Me" Must Worship "Me" in Spirit and in Truth" because these are the people God wants to worship Him. In other words, neither the Jews in Jerusalem nor the Samaritans on Mount Gerizim; neither group was worshipping Him, God; because if either group was worshipping Him, they would have recognized their God walking among them.

If either group had knowledge of TRUTH, a knowledge readily available from the true understanding and interpretation of the [B[ WORD OF GOD,[/B] they by so understanding and interpreting the THE WORD OF GOD would by so doing be Worshipping God. The scriptures support this fact in these words... "Sanctify them[us sinners] through thy TRUTH, THY WORD IS TRUTH John 17:17. Truth is most important to worshipping God! because it precludes any misguided devotee bringing an unworthy offering to Him in worship as were the unacceptable offerings brought to Him by both Cain and king Saul. So important to worship is Truth, that God would allow no human to define His Truth, and so He sends His Holy Spirit to guide us sinners into His Truth ....John 16:13 states this very clearly..."Howbeit when He the Spirit of Truth is come, He will guide you into all truth.....".

Since "God's word IS Truth; and since "HE" the Holy Spirit is sent by God to guide us sinners into HIS TRUTH, then it stands to reason that the definition of worship is that of God's and God's alone. And ours only to do when we seek to discover True worship as defined by God in His scriptures.
Abel discovered True worship as defined by God.....Cain worshipped as he chose to do; so he worshipped on his own terms[just as some do on these forums].Cain's worship was unacceptable to God; no matter how sincere Cain might have been; and Cain's worship was rejected. Abel's worship was defined by God and followed faithfully by Abel. Abel's worship was accepted by God and Abel was proclaimed "faithful" by the Word of God; While Cain is condemned to hell fire, despite his worshipping God as he chose!

precept

prosecutor · Mar 17, 2005

I would like to offer a suggestion. Why not look up the original words for "service" and "worship"? You will find that while all worship is service, not all service is worship. True worship requires (1) an object to be worshipped; (2) the intent to worship; (3) meeting the specified requirements set forth to engage in acceptable worship. The Bible teaches at least four types of worship, three of which are condemned: "Vain worship"; "ignorant worship"; "will worship"; and "true worship."
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