• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is God evil because He causes death?

lockyfan

Active Member
God is not killing the babies, this imperfect world is. there is a very large difference.

So you honestly believe a God that has allowed humans to live and learn from their mistakes is a God that is uncaring? To allow those who want to get to know him get to know him, and those who dont want to get to know him are still told repeatedly until Armageddon, so that they have a chance of life in a better world. but in the end they too will be destroyed along with Satans System. It is rather sad and unfortunate this has had to happen but hey, thats the way the cookie crumbles.

You would rather believe that the world is going to continue until it stalls and ends, thus no other life will be on it? Or would it be better to believe as I do that there is going to be an end of this horror, of people dying needlessly from horrible diseases and war and in the case of those poor unfortunate children just "because" and those who died will have a second chance at a better life in a world that is more like that described in John Lennon's song Imagine, than the one we live in now! I would prefer to have a hope of something continuing after this world ends than no hope at all.

I really think you missed the whole point of US HAVING TO LEAN FROM OUR MISTAKES. your parents did the same when you were a child, they told you NO! Dont or this will happen and you did it anyway and what happens they were right, you got hurt! thats what Jehovah is doing now!

the whole point of my "primitive myth system" is to tell you the fact that things will be better, When God is in charge of the earth. He is in total charge yes but he has allowed Satan to rule for now. To let satan prove a point. that man will NEVER be able to rule themselves without God.

And oh where did I say God orders people to KILL babies? huh? where was that? I said that child has a second chance of life, because it has died so young, it gets a second shot! Would you like a second shot at life? In a world that has no disease or sadness or war? I know I want to live in a world like that. I think all humans do, and that is the promise we have, that this will very soon end and it will be better.

I use an analogy, to show you, that if something is dented and you make something with it, that dent stays forever. sin is an inherited disease all humans have.

I too prefer to use my sense, evidence, logic and reason. I used them and came to the answers that I have. the world will be better, it will never end and it will be rid of the evils that it has now. You may not think so, but I do.

may I ask you what you think will happen with the world?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I said, ADAM WAS A CAKE TIN, not A CAKE! read carefully please. A tin that is dented will forever make a cake that is dented, because it is dented. Sin is inherited like all those genetic diseases that we get, but it is something that does not skip a generation. It is there ofrever, because humans are imperfect, but when god's System comes, we will have a chance to be perfect, no sickness death, war, all that will be gone forever.

So... if human beings are the cakes in your analogy, are you trying to imply that Adam was not a human being?

And to extend the analogy further, even with my marginally adequate handyman skills, I could pound a dent out of a cake pan with a block of wood and a rubber mallet to the point where it would make undented cakes. If I don't do this, it's because I don't really care about the pan or the cakes I make with it.

If God really does hate sin (or the "dent" in a "cake"), why doesn't He do the same? Why doesn't He "bang out" the dent from his "pan"?

You would rather believe that the world is going to continue until it stalls and ends, thus no other life will be on it? Or would it be better to believe as I do that there is going to be an end of this horror, of people dying needlessly from horrible diseases and war and in the case of those poor unfortunate children just "because" and those who died will have a second chance at a better life in a world that is more like that described in John Lennon's song Imagine, than the one we live in now! I would prefer to have a hope of something continuing after this world ends than no hope at all.

Sounds pleasant, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen.

I prefer to make the world we have now better, rather than hoping that some perfect world will be given to us later.

I really think you missed the whole point of US HAVING TO LEAN FROM OUR MISTAKES. your parents did the same when you were a child, they told you NO! Dont or this will happen and you did it anyway and what happens they were right, you got hurt! thats what Jehovah is doing now!

My parents never deliberately let me get hurt to teach me a lesson. Sure, I did bang myself up a bit like any child does, but that's just because it's not in the power of a human parent to protect their children against every danger.

Is it not in the power of God to protect His "children" from danger?

the whole point of my "primitive myth system" is to tell you the fact that things will be better, When God is in charge of the earth. He is in total charge yes but he has allowed Satan to rule for now. To let satan prove a point. that man will NEVER be able to rule themselves without God.
So... God allows Satan to reign over the world, causing countless people to suffer to "prove a point" with Satan? That sounds awful.

You said that Satan is "seeking to devour the world", yet you also say that God has allowed Satan to rule the world for now. What would you think of a parent that left a bear to babysit his children?

I use an analogy, to show you, that if something is dented and you make something with it, that dent stays forever. sin is an inherited disease all humans have.
Is sin also easily concealable with icing? :D
 

lockyfan

Active Member
So... if human beings are the cakes in your analogy, are you trying to imply that Adam was not a human being?

And to extend the analogy further, even with my marginally adequate handyman skills, I could pound a dent out of a cake pan with a block of wood and a rubber mallet to the point where it would make undented cakes. If I don't do this, it's because I don't really care about the pan or the cakes I make with it.

If God really does hate sin (or the "dent" in a "cake"), why doesn't He do the same? Why doesn't He "bang out" the dent from his "pan"?
Jesus' ransom sacrifice will achieve this, after armageddon


Sounds pleasant, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen.

I prefer to make the world we have now better, rather than hoping that some perfect world will be given to us later.

your idea is even less likely than mine. this world better? its getting worse and worse "Man has dominated man to his injury" from Ecclesiasties 8:9 We just have to hope and believe that a better world is really coming. the scriptures say so, so I believe it.


My parents never deliberately let me get hurt to teach me a lesson. Sure, I did bang myself up a bit like any child does, but that's just because it's not in the power of a human parent to protect their children against every danger.

Is it not in the power of God to protect His "children" from danger?
If he didnt let us get so bad now that his reputation has been challenged by satan (that God is an unfit ruler over men) then no one would have a chance of salvation. see he has to let satan try to prove his challenge that satan is a beter ruler than God. Look at the world around us, how could it be said that God who is described as BEING LOVE (1 John 4:8 God is Love) could be ruling a world that is as bad this one? it tells us in the scriptures that the world is in the hands of the wicked one, and that Jehovah will set things right.


So... God a
llows Satan to reign over the world, causing countless people to suffer to "prove a point" with Satan? That sounds awful.

I would rather that then god keep on destroying and starting again only to have to destroy and start all over again. If he had done that we wouldnt exist. We wouldnt be who we are. and god will stop it, when the time is right. when all those who are going to listen.. get the message. even god knows there are some who wont listen to his word and so does satan and unfortunately satan is out to get as many humans as possible. He has said to God that humans will turn against God. If given enough trouble. to save their own skins

You said that Satan is "seeking to devour the world", yet you also say that God has allowed Satan to rule the world for now. What would you think of a parent that left a bear to babysit his children?

but like I said, satan now has to be allowed to bring out the weeds in the garden so to speak. he needs to bring to light those who after anything that they are told, will not listen to the truth and will not turn their hearts toward God and praise him. You might think he is doing the wrong thing, but if he didn't let this happen after being challenged, if acted and destroyed satan, Adam and eve straight it would have proven to the other angels that what satan was say was the truth. so once the challenge was laid down, it was accepted and God put into place a way to get to what he intended the earth to be. A paradise for humans to live on. this is through the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christs perfect human life. to replace the one adam lost. All those who die now get a second chance. Whether Righteous or Unrighteous, to live forever on a paradise on earth.
some people may say I am strange, but I would rather believe that the world is going to get better, but not before it gets worse, and uit will because god has acted to stop the world from falling apart all together. the world has only gotten really bad in the last century really and that is because god has already enthroned Jesus in heaven and satan is now only concentrating on the earth.

revelation 12:10
And I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!
revelation 12:12
On this account be glad, YOU heavens and YOU who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to YOU, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time

The world has become much worse because satan has been sent to us and only has a short time before his destruction. the last thing to happen before the "great tribulation" (yes the world will become even worse sadly) is the destruction of Babylon the great. and then God's Kingdom will be on earth, as it is in heaven.

Is sin also easily concealable with icing? :D

Hahaha lol very funny I like this one. No sin is not concealable.

All this mess would have been avoided if Adam and eve had not been lied to by satan in the first place and had not eaten that apple.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Jesus' ransom sacrifice will achieve this, after armageddon
(I'll stay away from the idea of "ransom", because I have strong views on it and if I let them out, it'll probably derail the thread)

So... he doesn't care about humans born before Armageddon? Apparently, we were made with the bent pan, and God chose to make every single human being with it from Adam on down to present day. If God hates sin, why would He not do what it takes to ensure that no human being was born with this "dent" of sin in the first place?

your idea is even less likely than mine. this world better? its getting worse and worse "Man has dominated man to his injury" from Ecclesiasties 8:9 We just have to hope and believe that a better world is really coming. the scriptures say so, so I believe it.

It's unlikely that the world will improve much if the majority of people consider it to be disposable. Personally, I tend to think that my eggs are all in one basket no matter what, so I should make the best of the situation I find myself in.


If he didnt let us get so bad now that his reputation has been challenged by satan (that God is an unfit ruler over men) then no one would have a chance of salvation.
If God hadn't let us "get so bad" in the first place, then would we even need salvation? To use another cookware analogy, you don't need to wash a cup that's sat clean and unused.

see he has to let satan try to prove his challenge that satan is a beter ruler than God.
Why? Why does God need to do this?

Look at the world around us, how could it be said that God who is described as BEING LOVE (1 John 4:8 God is Love) could be ruling a world that is as bad this one?
No idea myself, but I sense that this is being claimed by a number of people in this thread.

I would rather that then god keep on destroying and starting again only to have to destroy and start all over again. If he had done that we wouldnt exist.
I sense a false dichotomy; why are those the only two options?

but like I said, satan now has to be allowed to bring out the weeds in the garden so to speak. he needs to bring to light those who after anything that they are told, will not listen to the truth and will not turn their hearts toward God and praise him. You might think he is doing the wrong thing, but if he didn't let this happen after being challenged, if acted and destroyed satan, Adam and eve straight it would have proven to the other angels that what satan was say was the truth.

Why would the "weeds" need to be "brought out"? Can't God tell the seed of a weed apart from one of a good plant? Why would He need to let them grow to see their true nature?

some people may say I am strange, but I would rather believe that the world is going to get better, but not before it gets worse, and uit will because god has acted to stop the world from falling apart all together. the world has only gotten really bad in the last century really and that is because god has already enthroned Jesus in heaven and satan is now only concentrating on the earth.

I hope the world will get better, too, but I think it's up to us to make it happen.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
God is not killing the babies, this imperfect world is. there is a very large difference.
I realize this is hard for you, but try to think. Concentrate on logic. Who made this imperfect world?

So you honestly believe a God that has allowed humans to live and learn from their mistakes is a God that is uncaring?
Well, if by "learn from" you mean "kill." I mean, once you're dead, those lessons are kind of wasted, aren't they?
To allow those who want to get to know him get to know him, and those who dont want to get to know him are still told repeatedly until Armageddon, so that they have a chance of life in a better world. but in the end they too will be destroyed along with Satans System. It is rather sad and unfortunate this has had to happen but hey, thats the way the cookie crumbles.
Yup, tough luck for the baby who dies at birth, that's the way the cookie crumbles. Nice God you worship.

You would rather believe that the world is going to continue until it stalls and ends, thus no other life will be on it? Or would it be better to believe as I do that there is going to be an end of this horror, of people dying needlessly from horrible diseases and war and in the case of those poor unfortunate children just "because" and those who died will have a second chance at a better life in a world that is more like that described in John Lennon's song Imagine, than the one we live in now! I would prefer to have a hope of something continuing after this world ends than no hope at all.
I'd rather believe the truth, and I believe that in general, the best way to figure out the truth is by evidence and logic.
"Imagine no religion..." --John Lennon

I really think you missed the whole point of US HAVING TO LEAN FROM OUR MISTAKES. your parents did the same when you were a child, they told you NO!
They didn't kill me, though, or condemn me to everlasting torment.
Dont or this will happen and you did it anyway and what happens they were right, you got hurt! thats what Jehovah is doing now!
To use your analogy, kind of an abusive parent. And His name is Yahweh.

the whole point of my "primitive myth system" is to tell you the fact that things will be better, When God is in charge of the earth. He is in total charge yes but he has allowed Satan to rule for now. To let satan prove a point. that man will NEVER be able to rule themselves without God.
So the poor baby has to suffer and die, just to prove a point.

And oh where did I say God orders people to KILL babies?
Have you read the Bible? It's your religion; maybe you need to learn something about it.
1 Samuel 15 said:
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.

huh? where was that? I said that child has a second chance of life, because it has died so young, it gets a second shot!
O.K., now persuade me this is true.
Would you like a second shot at life? In a world that has no disease or sadness or war? I know I want to live in a world like that. I think all humans do, and that is the promise we have, that this will very soon end and it will be better.
What makes you think this is true?
I use an analogy, to show you, that if something is dented and you make something with it, that dent stays forever. sin is an inherited disease all humans have.
O.K., now show that there ever was such a person.

I too prefer to use my sense, evidence, logic and reason.
No you don't, you prefer to use myth, faith and stories.
I used them and came to the answers that I have.
No, you didn't. Are you trying to tell me that you believe because of evidence, and not because of faith?
the world will be better, it will never end and it will be rid of the evils that it has now. You may not think so, but I do.
Yes, bubba, we know you think this. We also know you have absolutely no basis on which to base this belief. If you do have some basis, please present it; I wait with great anticipation.

may I ask you what you think will happen with the world?
As far as I know, it will eventually perish when the sun goes nova, isn't that right?
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Jesus' ransom sacrifice will achieve this, after armageddon
I realize that this concept is foreign to your entire worldview, but: evidence, please?

your idea is even less likely than mine. this world better? its getting worse and worse "Man has dominated man to his injury" from Ecclesiasties 8:9 We just have to hope and believe that a better world is really coming. the scriptures say so, so I believe it.
Why? Why scriptures, and why these scriptures in particular?

If he didnt let us get so bad now that his reputation has been challenged by satan (that God is an unfit ruler over men) then no one would have a chance of salvation. see he has to let satan try to prove his challenge that satan is a beter ruler than God. Look at the world around us, how could it be said that God who is described as BEING LOVE (1 John 4:8 God is Love) could be ruling a world that is as bad this one? it tells us in the scriptures that the world is in the hands of the wicked one, and that Jehovah will set things right.
I wish you could read this over from the perspective of someone outside your belief system and see just how whacko it sounds.

I would rather that then god keep on destroying and starting again only to have to destroy and start all over again. If he had done that we wouldnt exist. We wouldnt be who we are. and god will stop it, when the time is right. when all those who are going to listen.. get the message. even god knows there are some who wont listen to his word and so does satan and unfortunately satan is out to get as many humans as possible. He has said to God that humans will turn against God. If given enough trouble. to save their own skins
Listen, is this God supposed to be all-powerful or not?

but like I said, satan now has to be allowed to bring out the weeds in the garden so to speak. he needs to bring to light those who after anything that they are told, will not listen to the truth and will not turn their hearts toward God and praise him. You might think he is doing the wrong thing, but if he didn't let this happen after being challenged, if acted and destroyed satan, Adam and eve straight it would have proven to the other angels that what satan was say was the truth. so once the challenge was laid down, it was accepted and God put into place a way to get to what he intended the earth to be. A paradise for humans to live on. this is through the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christs perfect human life. to replace the one adam lost. All those who die now get a second chance. Whether Righteous or Unrighteous, to live forever on a paradise on earth.
Furthermore, the Einherjar are waiting at Valhalla to defend the Gods when Rajnarok comes.

some people may say I am strange, but I would rather believe that the world is going to get better, but not before it gets worse, and uit will because god has acted to stop the world from falling apart all together. the world has only gotten really bad in the last century really and that is because god has already enthroned Jesus in heaven and satan is now only concentrating on the earth.
No, you're not strange; you're typical. What is unusual is a rational, empirical approach to the world. Most people, like you, spend their entire lives enmeshed in the myth-system they were inculcated with as children.

The world has become much worse because satan has been sent to us and only has a short time before his destruction. the last thing to happen before the "great tribulation" (yes the world will become even worse sadly) is the destruction of Babylon the great. and then God's Kingdom will be on earth, as it is in heaven.
Oh please stop. Just stop. Fantasy is fundamentally boring.

All this mess would have been avoided if Adam and eve had not been lied to by satan in the first place and had not eaten that apple.
For just one second, imagine you were not raised with this particular myth system, and try to see how primitive and just plain silly this is.
 

Sola'lor

LDSUJC
And yet you're both "Christian." Interesting.

Yep. It is interesting isn't it.

But I thought of something. Can we actually determine the factual value of something based on how reasonable it sounds? I've seen so many things and when relating them they sound completely ridiculous, but yet they actually happened.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Yep. It is interesting isn't it.

But I thought of something. Can we actually determine the factual value of something based on how reasonable it sounds? I've seen so many things and when relating them they sound completely ridiculous, but yet they actually happened.

No, Sola, I agree--you can't. For that you need evidence and the scientific method. At least, that's the only thing I've seen to work.
 

lockyfan

Active Member
(I'll stay away from the idea of "ransom", because I have strong views on it and if I let them out, it'll probably derail the thread)

So... he doesn't care about humans born before Armageddon? Apparently, we were made with the bent pan, and God chose to make every single human being with it from Adam on down to present day. If God hates sin, why would He not do what it takes to ensure that no human being was born with this "dent" of sin in the first place?

No adam and eve created the bent pan for us. god created them perfect they were supposed to live forever, but didnt listen. those who are before armageddon, do get to live again with the exception of those who die at armageddon


It's unlikely that the world will improve much if the majority of people consider it to be disposable. Personally, I tend to think that my eggs are all in one basket no matter what, so I should make the best of the situation I find myself in.
Those are the kinds of people that wont make it throuh Armageddon, the ones who think it is "disposable" Which basket are your eggs all in?

If God hadn't let us "get so bad" in the first place, then would we even need salvation? To use another cookware analogy, you don't need to wash a cup that's sat clean and unused.
If Adam and eve hadn't have sinned, we woudn't be in this mess. God's going to fix the problem, but he has to let it run its course, or else it will go on forever.

Why? Why does God need to do this?
If God didn't and just destroyed satan there and then, then another angel would have brought up the same question, so he allowed it, so that others would see that what happen if they lived without Jehovah God himself and went their own way. so it is for all people to benefit.

No idea myself, but I sense that this is being claimed by a number of people in this thread.
so the logical thought, would then be, well if it isnt God ruling who is it? Well the answer satan, because his point had to be proven for the benefit of all those in existance. so that this mess NEVER happens again.



I sense a false dichotomy; why are those the only two options?
what toher option was there? destroy Adam and Eve and satan and start all over again or let this all happen and stop it at the correct time, not before and not too late?


Why would the "weeds" need to be "brought out"? Can't God tell the seed of a weed apart from one of a good plant? Why would He need to let them grow to see their true nature?
He doesn't as he can read your heart, but all people need to be given the chance over and over again to change their ways so that they too can live. thats why this world is going on, so that all those who can be saved, will be saved.


I hope the world will get better, too, but I think it's up to us to make it happen.
Man Will Dominate Man to his Injury. Man has been ruling this worldfo th best part of 6000 years (biblical times) How well has man done?
 

lockyfan

Active Member
I realize this is hard for you, but try to think. Concentrate on logic. Who made this imperfect world?
Sin. Is that such a difficult concept for you to grasp? Humans and Satan also. Is that so hard?

Well, if by "learn from" you mean "kill." I mean, once you're dead, those lessons are kind of wasted, aren't they? Yup, tough luck for the baby who dies at birth, that's the way the cookie crumbles. Nice God you worship.
And yet you keep missing the point of they get to live again. So what do you believe happens to the dead?

I'd rather believe the truth, and I believe that in general, the best way to figure out the truth is by evidence and logic.
"Imagine no religion..." --John Lennon

And your logic is what? Your truth is what? Your evidence is what?
"imagine no possessions, I wonder if you can, no need for greed or hunger a BROTHERHOOD OF MAN" --- John Lennon - Imagine

They didn't kill me, though, or condemn me to everlasting torment. To use your analogy, kind of an abusive parent. And His name is Yahweh.

I dont think its an abusive parent who tells you "stop doing that, or you will get hurt" I think thats a kind parent, because One they have told you not to do what your doing and two, you will get hurt if you continue. they have given you and instruction and a reason not to. hmm sounds like a good parent to me.
Yeah is it? funny how even the King James version refers to him as Jehovah in the places it actually uses his name!

So the poor baby has to suffer and die, just to prove a point.
Where is the suffering? the baby in your situation is alive all of what two minutes? sound like the poor baby hasn't even suffered really. its a sad thought though isn't it, A child dead at such a young age, but like I said, well they get to live again, later and learn the truth about god, just like us all, whether you choose to listen or not is the choice we all have.

Have you read the Bible? It's your religion; maybe you need to learn something about it.
Yes, I have as I have seen through the twisted horrible mess that satan has made of it and seen the truth, that there is a better world awaiting those who are faithful to the end.

O.K., now persuade me this is true. What makes you think this is true?
i have given you all the information you need to know before this, plus I thought you didn't believe in what the bible said, so I cant persuade you any further than that can I?
O.K., now show that there ever was such a person.
Again the bible, but if you don't believe in it, then how can I show you?

No you don't, you prefer to use myth, faith and stories. No, you didn't. Are you trying to tell me that you believe because of evidence, and not because of faith? Yes, bubba, we know you think this. We also know you have absolutely no basis on which to base this belief. If you do have some basis, please present it; I wait with great anticipation.
The bible, tells the truth if you can see it plus, Thats why its called a leap of faith. Ever heard that expression? plus it makes more sense than "this world is going to go on and on and on and on and on, getting worse and worse and worse and worse, and never getting better. Funny how the saying "its always darkest before the dawn" now makes much more sense to me. the world is REALLY BAD now and yet there is a promise for it to become better.

As far as I know, it will eventually perish when the sun goes nova, isn't that right?
No because Jehovah god has the power to keep it going if he wants to, which he does or else it would never have existed.
 

lockyfan

Active Member
Revelation 21:4
And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

Revelation 21:3
With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them.

Obviously God is not with us now, otherwise it would not say "the tent of god is with mankind"

matthew 4:5-10
Then the Devil took him along into the holy city, and he stationed him upon the battlement of the temple and said to him: “If you are a son of God, hurl yourself down; for it is written, ‘He will give his angels a charge concerning you, and they will carry you on their hands, that you may at no time strike your foot against a stone.’” Jesus said to him: “Again it is written, ‘You must not put Jehovah your God to the test.’” Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, and he said to him: “All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.” Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.

John 12:30-31
In answer Jesus said: “This voice has occurred, not for my sake, but for YOUR sakes. Now there is a judging of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
Jesus is saying the ruler of the earth will be cast out

1 John 5:18-20
We know that every [person] that has been born from God does not practice sin, but the One born from God watches him, and the wicked one does not fasten his hold on him. We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one. But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us intellectual capacity that we may gain the knowledge of the true one. And we are in union with the true one, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting

Isiah 9:6-7
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom in order to establish it firmly and to sustain it by means of justice and by means of righteousness, from now on and to time indefinite. The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this.

Isiah 65:16-17
so that anyone blessing himself in the earth will bless himself by the God of faith, and anyone making a sworn statement in the earth will swear by the God of faith; because the former distresses will actually be forgotten and because they will actually be concealed from my eyes.“For here I am creating new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart.

2 Peter 3:13
But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Sin. Is that such a difficult concept for you to grasp? Humans and Satan also. Is that so hard?
I'm confused. I thought God made the world.

And yet you keep missing the point of they get to live again.
And you keep missing the point that you have no evidence that this is the case. However, people's unsupported belief that this is the case causes them to murder other people (because, after all, they get to live again) which is evil. Finally, I thought only a faithful minority gets to live in eternal bliss, and the rest of us suffer permanent torment, which makes the evil even greater under your silly belief system.
So what do you believe happens to the dead?
The evidence seems to indicate that they remain dead.
And your logic is what? Your truth is what? Your evidence is what?
My logic and evidence for what? Please be specific.
"imagine no possessions, I wonder if you can, no need for greed or hunger a BROTHERHOOD OF MAN" --- John Lennon - Imagine
Lennon seems to believe that this is only possible without religion. I don't think this is the world you want to imagine.

I dont think its an abusive parent who tells you "stop doing that, or you will get hurt" I think thats a kind parent, because One they have told you not to do what your doing and two, you will get hurt if you continue. they have given you and instruction and a reason not to. hmm sounds like a good parent to me.
Right, and if you disagree, the parent kills you. That's some parenting.
Yeah is it? funny how even the King James version refers to him as Jehovah in the places it actually uses his name!
Again, I realize this is a challenge for you, but try, really try to think before you type. When was the King's James Bible produced? In what language? When was the OT written? In what language?

Where is the suffering? the baby in your situation is alive all of what two minutes? sound like the poor baby hasn't even suffered really. its a sad thought though isn't it, A child dead at such a young age, but like I said, well they get to live again, later and learn the truth about god, just like us all, whether you choose to listen or not is the choice we all have.
Unfortunately, forum rules do not permit me to respond honestly to this post. In any case, words fail me in the face of such barbaric callousness. If anyone here was considering converting to your version of Christianity, I'm sure that this post alone would be enough to dissuade them.

Yes, I have as I have seen through the twisted horrible mess that satan has made of it and seen the truth, that there is a better world awaiting those who are faithful to the end.
Try to follow along here. You said that the Bible does not command people to kill babies. Here's the passage. In fact, Moses rebukes the soldiers for letting the babies live, and sends them back to finish the job and be sure to kill all the babies. That's right, failing to kill babies was a sin, refusing to fulfill God's will. Now at this point a person with any honor would admit their mistake. It's not that hard, but it requires a trait few Christians have: humility.

i have given you all the information you need to know before this, plus I thought you didn't believe in what the bible said, so I cant persuade you any further than that can I?
Got it. You have no evidence whatsoever to support your assertion. That's what I figured.

Again the bible, but if you don't believe in it, then how can I show you?
Exactly. Now, why do you believe in it? That is, of all the holy books ever written (all of which, I assume, you've read) why do you find this particular one the most persuasive?

The bible, tells the truth if you can see it plus, Thats why its called a leap of faith. Ever heard that expression? plus it makes more sense than "this world is going to go on and on and on and on and on, getting worse and worse and worse and worse, and never getting better. Funny how the saying "its always darkest before the dawn" now makes much more sense to me. the world is REALLY BAD now and yet there is a promise for it to become better.
Yes, it means believing things without any evidence. I find it quite dangerous but if it's your thing, I have some money in a Nigerian account that I need to transfer to the U.S. Can you help?

No because Jehovah god has the power to keep it going if he wants to, which he does or else it would never have existed.
So basically you reject astronomy then?
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
No adam and eve created the bent pan for us. god created them perfect they were supposed to live forever, but didnt listen. those who are before armageddon, do get to live again with the exception of those who die at armageddon



Those are the kinds of people that wont make it throuh Armageddon, the ones who think it is "disposable" Which basket are your eggs all in?


If Adam and eve hadn't have sinned, we woudn't be in this mess. God's going to fix the problem, but he has to let it run its course, or else it will go on forever.


If God didn't and just destroyed satan there and then, then another angel would have brought up the same question, so he allowed it, so that others would see that what happen if they lived without Jehovah God himself and went their own way. so it is for all people to benefit.


so the logical thought, would then be, well if it isnt God ruling who is it? Well the answer satan, because his point had to be proven for the benefit of all those in existance. so that this mess NEVER happens again.




what toher option was there? destroy Adam and Eve and satan and start all over again or let this all happen and stop it at the correct time, not before and not too late?



He doesn't as he can read your heart, but all people need to be given the chance over and over again to change their ways so that they too can live. thats why this world is going on, so that all those who can be saved, will be saved.



Man Will Dominate Man to his Injury. Man has been ruling this worldfo th best part of 6000 years (biblical times) How well has man done?

I beg of you, please stop describing your personal myth-system to us. Believe me, we're familiar with it. Do you have any assertions you can support in any way? Or, if you think the Bible is good support, do you have some support for the reliability of the Bible as a source?
 

Sola'lor

LDSUJC
When people are killed by someone, or some thing (such as a God), and it is not their choice to die, then it is evil and the person, entity, God or whatever is evil.

When somebody is killed by another person before God wants that person to die then it is evil. But God has ultimate authority and control over when we die. So it is not evil fo God to kill someone because He is the Master. But it is evil for someone to kill another person becuase it goes against God's plan for that person.
 
There's so many arguments against God because He cause people to be killed in the Flood, or because I commanded nations to be destroyed. Or they argue God is evil because He allows innocent children to die or people to die 'before there time.' So I'm going to take this argument to is logical conclusion.

Is God evil because He allows TRILLIONS of people to die from old age? Surely and all knowing, all loving God, would not allow trillions of people to die from problems with their bodies.

I could never believe in such a God that would allow death to come to EVERY elderly person in the worlds history. Such a God could NOT be a loving God!

:sarcastic


Your kinda humorous. Actuall I found your pic and " I'm a guy not a chick, or I'm a gay and not a guy, or I'm a chick and maybe a guy , " routine about as logical as your above post.
 

Sola'lor

LDSUJC
Your kinda humorous. Actuall I found your pic and " I'm a guy not a chick, or I'm a gay and not a guy, or I'm a chick and maybe a guy , " routine about as logical as your above post.

Hehe. My OP was intended to be sarcastic.

I have the I'm a guy not a chick because everybody thinks I'm a woman just because I have a female avater. They keep calling me Ms. or she. So I thought I would clarify.
 
Top