Quoth The Raven
Half Arsed Muse
No, it's more like Monpoly, and the dice cup is a human skull.Ceridwen018 said:
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Job
- Thread starter Lightkeeper
- Start date
jewscout
Religious Zionist
It's not a gamble...it's a test of faith. He wanted to show that Job was a truely righteous man and no matter what, Job would remain righteous and not give into his anger or bitterness. Once it was all said and done and Job had past his test he was rewarded....Ceridwen018 said:
Job 42:10-13 said:
Feathers in Hair
World's Tallest Hobbit
What was it Terry Pratchett said, when he introduced the various pantheons of the Discworld, sitting around and having their games involving humanity?lady_lazarus said:
"I accuse the High Priest of the Green Robe in the library with the double-handed axe."
Fate (winning again)
They tend to like Chutes and Ladders, too, except with greased rungs.
My step-daughter went into a coma from e-coli infection in 2000, woke up a month later with both legs and most of her fingers amputated. I told her "God must have a purpose for you, your life was spared."
Yesterday morning, my cousin's truck was hit by a train, killing his girlfriend. He's in the ICU with his neck broken in 4 places, ankle and multiple bones broken, lungs punctured (who knows what else). If he lives and regains a Christopher Reeves kind of life, what should I tell him about God's plan?
Yesterday morning, my cousin's truck was hit by a train, killing his girlfriend. He's in the ICU with his neck broken in 4 places, ankle and multiple bones broken, lungs punctured (who knows what else). If he lives and regains a Christopher Reeves kind of life, what should I tell him about God's plan?
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
Mahayana, namaste.mahayana said:
I am so sorry for both your daughter and cousin and for you.
If you're really asking for advice, I wouldn't say anything to him about God's plan. I would just be there for him, and let him work thru this horrible event at his own pace.
One of the reasons why I so love the book of Job is because it touches on things like this - how the friends and loved ones respond to a person who is suffering. When Job has everything taken away from him, his three friends come to comfort him. But when Job complains about the misery of his situation, instead of agreeing with him, they tell him that it's all part of God's plan, to just accept it and God will make it better if he stays a good servant. Job balks at this, accuses them of not being good friends, and the whole thing escalates to his friends accusing Job of deserving his punishment and Job accusing God of rewarding the wicked. And in the end, God says that Job's friends did not speak the truth about Him.
The book of Job is an exageration of real life, taking everything to the extremes. But there is great truth in it, I think. When someone is suffering greatly for no apparent reason, they may not draw much comfort from hearing that it's all part of God's plan. Of course people respond differently, and if your cousin brings up God himself, searching for meaning, by all means support him on it. Give him what he needs. But for a lot people, talk of God's plan at a time like this is like an imposition on their suffering. It's almost like telling them that they don't have a right to grieve for their loss, that it shows a lack of faith in God.
I don't know if God plans out our lives or whether God just allows human agency and the natural chain of events to take their course. But I do know that when we are there for our loved ones, loving and supporting them, that too is God in action.
Please let us know how your cousin is doing.
-lilith
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Mahayana,
I feel your pain, and wish you a complete healing of your soul.
God doesn't deal much with the temporal. He has and he can, but his blessings are largely spiritual since he is spirit.
We look to often for OUTSIDE influences to make us happy. Relationships, health, wealth etc. But our happiness, courage and all should be determined by what's on the inside. While love can be demonstrated in the little things, it doesn't need them to express itself. You can not be truly happy unless your life is centered around loving others.
I feel your pain, and wish you a complete healing of your soul.
The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
God doesn't deal much with the temporal. He has and he can, but his blessings are largely spiritual since he is spirit.
We look to often for OUTSIDE influences to make us happy. Relationships, health, wealth etc. But our happiness, courage and all should be determined by what's on the inside. While love can be demonstrated in the little things, it doesn't need them to express itself. You can not be truly happy unless your life is centered around loving others.
Ceridwen018
Well-Known Member
Jewscout, this is what I see when I read that:
God: Ah yes, Job--well done! Here, have some money, land, and livestock.
Job: ....You're trying to pay me off for killing my entire family and making me live in anguish of every sort imaginable?
God: Well alright then--here, have some new family. These will be better than that old family of yours.
Do you see the point here, Jewscout?
jewscout
Religious Zionist
I can not change what you see Ceridwen...our interpretations of this story are going to be starkly different...Ceridwen018 said:
what i see....
G-d: You have shown yourself to be a righteous man and a loyal man of G-d. For the pain you have suffered i shall restore you to a greater stance than you were before.
Job: Thank you.
Of course i suppose our own personal beliefs are leading us to find things in this story which are in conjunctions with those beliefs...
You may see the story of a cruel Diety...
I see the story of a man who didn't give into bitterness and stayed with his faith and was rewarded in the end....
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
Ceridwen is ignoring the genuine happiness in the ending. God doesn't just restore Job's fortune and family; Job attains a peace of mind that he did not have before.jewscout said:
And Jewscout, you are ignoring the genuine anger in the middle. Job curses creation and accuses God of rewarding the wicked; how much more bitter can you get?!
Your reading of Job is like a Christian's reading.
Haven't you heard the Tanakh described as the recorded history of a people's one long argument with their God? The Jews have been arguing with God since day one. That's probably the thing that I love most about Judaism.C'mon you guys!! The book of Job is soooo cool! A human yells at God - how many people in their suffering have wanted to yell at God? - and God responds! And God doesn't punish Job for it; God rewards him. It's cool because it's complicated and paradoxical, like God (or our understanding of God).
I think I'm going to have to post an article on this...
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
Now who else on this board would know to do that except for you!No*s said:
I have compared the NSRV bible and the JPS Tanakh. They translate some parts differently but do not differ in structure. I also have Stephen Mitchell's translation, which leaves out Elihu's speech and the wisdom poem. How does the Septuagint's version differ from what us westerners are used to?
No*s
Captain Obvious
lilithu said:Now who else on this board would know to do that except for you!
There is one really crappy translation into English available I thought someone might have used
.lilithu said:
Well, the LXX is significantly shorter than the MT version (as in, less than half as long). They get to the same point, but the difference is substantial. I'll see if I can dredge up a link to Brenton's translation. The link in my article on the LXX here seems to be dead.
Keep your sticks away from you, is all the advice I have on reading it. I kept wanting to use some to pluck out my eyes
.
No*s
Captain Obvious
lilithu said:Whether they get to the same point depends on what the point is.
Of course, that's true. But...we all know that I have it all right
.lilithu said:
No, that's not it. I first read it when I couldn't read Greek much. As a result, I wanted to know what the LXX had, so I sought out an English translation. Only one complete translation into English exists. And I cannot stand the translation
.
No*s
Captain Obvious
Just an update- my cousin is at home now. Using a walker, chestplate with two steel rods holding his head stationary, has to wear that for 3 months. The RR investigator reported that his truck "struck the front of a moving train." What are the odds, that you can hit a train with your passenger door, and live to tell the tale?