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Why Do Some Doubt The Deity of Christ?

linwood

Well-Known Member
iris89 said:
Hi Linwood

So you are one who can not concentrate on important main points and weighty matters, but concerns himself with trivial items of no importance which of course are not worthy of investigation since they are nothing but so whats.
No.
I am one who realises if a person cannot be truthful about the trivial matters they are most probably just as untruthful about the large ones.

Why do you seem to lack the ability of being able to differiantiate the important from the totally unimportant. Research products concentrate, or at least should, on weighty items; not trivial on which some have differences of opinions.
Considering the fact that your research led you to the conclusion that the canon of Wicca is wrong or false is extremely telling when I know that Wicca has no Canon.
This too leads me to distrust any other research you`ve done.

Then to find out that you base your research of the canon of Wicca on a book you glanced at in a used bookstore and read no further tells me that your research is not honest nor inclusive to any and all possibities.
It is actually not research at all.

Perhaps if you had actually read that book you would have known what it was, and what it was not.

Tell me Iris how does one research a book that does not exist?

What you did is the equivelent of me reading the first page of the Roman Missal and determining that the Bible is false.

There is at this point no way I could ethically even consider any conclusion you have on anything valid whatsoever

But please continue..I beg of you.

:biglaugh:
 

iris89

Active Member
Hi Everyone



What petty and silly to snipe at the trivial and of no importance and overlook the important things you should learn from, this situation was spoken of by Jesus (Yeshua) at Matthew 7:3, "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" (American Standard Version; ASV). It is time that you start acting like grown ups, and start learning instead of snipping.



You are snipping at what I wrote just to be snipping and not learning anything. Now let's look at what I said.

the fact that the Bible is NOT the product of one committee or strongman. It has over 40 individual writers who wrote under divine inspiration/guidance much as transcribing secretaries today taking transcription and then later typing it out. In other words one real author, God (YHWH), and many scribes each of whom wrote in his own style over a period of approximately 1,600 years. All of what people call or consider inconsistencies are really not such, but most often just a problem of translation and/or understanding, i.e., lack of understanding of what the original writer writing in his own language and culture meant/said in his original writing. What is remarkable, is the writers over such a period of time all wrote in harmony when even most posters on threads on this forum can not even stay on track or subject over a period of a few days and/or weeks at most with the original subject of the thread. This fact of harmony over a period so great as to almost stagger the imagination shows that it had one guiding force or author who divinely inspired its writers as humans of their own volition can not keep on track over short periods of time.


To wit, the Bible is the ONLY book God (YHWH) ever inspired men to write as his scribes. In other words, God is its author and men only put his thoughts given to them by divine inspiration into their own words, the words of men. Not only that, all the other writers of later so called religious guidance books borrowed from it and made changes in accord with their strong man or so called prophet. Take the example of Joseph Smith who borrowed from it to write the Book of Mormon, but failed to give credit or source to the Bible and twisted some borrowed things into bizarre distortions. Other examples are of course the bizarre writings of David Koresh the Prophet of the Branch Dividians of Waco, Texas (Now some snipe at this, yet this is a paraphrase of exactly what the Attorney General of the United States of America said about his writings at the time of the Waco affair, do you not pay attention to significant news events in your country and the world? Time to grow up.); and the Quran, and the Book of Wiccim ( I look at a book in a Chicago book store and read the first chapter and just refer ever so little to it and that just in passing and the snipes try and make something out of nothing, this is ridiculas. I am NOT applying this to Melody as she was sincerely trying to fill me in on information about a religious group I know little about since I am a Bible researcher as I have stated many times and not a Wiccim student. I do not get involved in the internal affairs of the Wiccim and whether they have all agreed on a book, but simply mentioned one book without any implication that it was accepted by all Wiccim, how silly to make a mountain out of a mole hill). Get reasonable and stop snipping.



Your Friend in Christ Iris89
 

iris89

Active Member
Hi Melody

Fear not, I am in no way critizising you, I am tired of silly snipes by others.



I went back in my post to find where I had used the word 'bizarre' and I found it was as a direct paraphrase of exactly what the Attorney General of the United States of America said about his writings at the time of the Waco affair. In my last post I asked these snipes if they do you not pay attention to significant news events in your country and the world? Why? Because their comments are ridicules and just an attempt to make a mountain out of a mole hill, in other words something out of nothing.



The same applies to the item over the Wiccim in that I only mentioned by name a book I saw in a Chicago book store, and that with no further comment as part of a general topic on something else. Silly sniping on the part of the snipes who know who they are even though I am not naming them.



Now what is sniping, the dictionary defines the verb snipe as follows:

Inflected forms: sniped, snip·ing, snipes
1. To shoot at individuals from a concealed place. 2. To shoot snipe. 3. To make malicious, underhand remarks or attacks.[source – American Heritage Dictionary, 4 ed.]



So thank you for the information that the snipes intentionally misapplied.



Your Friend in Christ Iris89
 

Hope

Princesinha
Iris, with all due respect, I believe you are going about your "enlightening others" in totally the wrong way. First of all, as others have pointed out, this is a debate thread, and in fact most threads in this forum are debate threads, so if you've no desire to debate, then it makes no sense why you are posting here. Secondly, you will gain no respect from others if you belittle them verbally, and condescendingly reprimand them for not seeing things or knowing things like you do ( such as, "it is a well-known fact that Jesus is the son of God", etc....). I am a Christian, so I am not arguing about many of the points you make, as I agree with a lot of them; however, what bothers me is the manner you are going about 'making your points.' I am sorry to say that you are just setting yourself up to be ragged on. People will never listen to you or respect you if you first don't respect them!! People don't enjoy being 'talked down to.' As a follower of Yeshua, I would urge you to look at His example. He talked to them---not down at them. He met them where they were. He was the ultimate example of humility and grace. One could spout words of wisdom all day long, but unless one gets past their own 'enlightened state' to see and treat other people as simply that---people---they will never be seen as more than full of hot air.

Grace and peace to you.....
 

iris89

Active Member
Hi Hope

FIRST, I do not debate nor post on debate forums. Someone moved my post to this forum.

SECOND, The International Encyclopedia of the Bible says this of Jesus (Yeshua) which is common knowledge as you well know:

Jesus Christ:

The Founder of the Christian religion; the promised Messiah and Saviour of the world; the Lord and Head of the Christian church.

I. The Names.

1. Jesus:

(Iesous) is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew "Joshua" (yehoshua`), meaning "Yahweh is salvation." It stands therefore in the Septuagint and Apocrypha for "Joshua," and in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8 likewise represents the Old Testament Joshua; hence, in the Revised Version (British and American) is in these passages rendered "Joshua." In Matthew 1:21 the name as commanded by the angel to be given to the son of Mary, "for it is he that shall save his people from their sins" (see below on "Nativity"). It is the personal name of the Lord in the Gospels and the Acts, but generally in the Epistles appears in combination with "Christ" or other appellative (alone in Romans 3:26; 4:24; 1 Corinthians 12:3; 2 Corinthians 11:4; Philippians 2:10; 1 Thessalonians 4:14; Hebrews 7:22; 10:19, etc.).

2. Christ:

(Christos) is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew "Messiah" (mashiach; compare in the New Testament, John 1:41; 4:25, "Messiah"), meaning "anointed" (see MESSIAH). It designates Jesus as the fulfiller of the Messianic hopes of the Old Testament and of the Jewish people. It will be seen below that Jesus Himself made this claim. After the resurrection it became the current title for Jesus in the apostolic church. Most frequently in the Epistles He is called "Jesus Christ," sometimes "Christ Jesus" (Romans 8:1,2,39; 1 Corinthians 1:2,30; 4:15; Ephesians 1:1; Philippians 1:1; Colossians 1:4,28 the King James Version; 1 Thessalonians 2:14, etc.), often "Christ" alone (Romans 1:16 the King James Version; Romans 5:6,8; 6:4,8,9; 8:10, etc.). In this case "Christ" has acquired the force of a proper name. Very frequently the term is associated with "Lord" (kurios)--"the (or "our") Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 11:17; 15:11 the King James Version; Acts 16:31 the King James Version; Acts 20:21; 28:31; Romans 1:7; 5:1,11; 13:14; 1 Corinthians 16:23, etc.).

II. Order of Treatment.

In studying, as it is proposed to do in this article, the earthly history of Jesus and His place in the faith of the apostolic church, it will be convenient to pursue the following order:

First, as introductory to the whole study, certain questions relating to the sources of our knowledge of Jesus, and to the preparation for, and circumstances of, His historical appearance, invite careful attention (Part I).

Next, still as preliminary to the proper narrative of the life of Jesus, it is desirable to consider certain problems arising out of the presentation of that life in the Gospels with which modern thought is more specially concerned, as determining the attitude in which the narratives are approached. Such are the problems of the miracles, the Messiahship, the sinless character and supernatural claims of Jesus (Part II).

The way is then open for treatment in order of the actual events of Christ's life and ministry, so far as recorded. These fall into many stages, from His nativity and baptism till His death, resurrection and ascension (Part III). A final division will deal with Jesus as the exalted Lord in the aspects in which He is presented in the teaching of the Epistles and remaining writings of the New Testament (Part IV).[source - International Encyclopedia of the Bible]
THIRD, I am not belitting anyone, but being belittled by snipes.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89
 

Scott1

Well-Known Member
Iris,

To prevent any further debate on your part..... please PM me after you complete and post a new thread. I will lock the thread so no one else can post on it.... this way you can be sure to get your message out with out debate and discussion.

Here to help...... Scott
 

rsttlcollado

New Member
"the statement and the word became flesh is a clear degradation of God becoming a mere word and a flesh. the fact is, he was accorded virgin birth to justify his being a deity, however in the history of mankind, there are at least seven gods who were also accorded virgin birth before jesus, to name a few, the greek god Apollo and the egyptian god osiris. Therefore, the Virgin birth is not original and just a mere justification. So one might ask? Why are the catholics consider Jesus as God when Jesus himself did not consider himself a God (luke 18: 18-19) when a wise man ask jesus, "Good man what will i do to inherit the world" Jesus replied, why do you call me good? ONLY GOD IS GOOD! To me, this statement of Jesus is clear and literal and leaves no room for interpretation. He is no God! And was made only a god by the catholics, you ask me how? by a "VOTATION" in the council of nicea, out of the 350 member bishops at that time 348 voted Jesus as god. people like me are weary of a person made god thru votation.
 

iris89

Active Member
Hi rsttlcollado vbmenu_register("postmenu_381727", true);
FIRST, Jesus (Yeshua) is the Son of God (YHWH) and NOT Almighty God (YHWH) his Father. Check out Matthew 16:16, "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." (Authorized King James Bible: AV); and Jesus (Yeshua) himself said to pray only to his Father (YHWH) at Matthew 4:9-10, "And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." (AV).
SECOND, The Council of Nicea of 325 AD was where most of the Christians went apostate. For details, go to:
http://preacher.proboards7.com/index.cgi?board=belief&action=display&thread=1137232810
THIRD, For detailed information on the events leading up to the Council of Nicea of 325 AD and what transpired there, go to:
http://love.proboards9.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=religious&thread=1135723580&page=1
FOURTH, With respect what is genuine, the New Testament and the Old Testament decide that and not some group of mere men by vote. God (YHWH) is not governed by men and when they try and USURP his position with regard to declaring what is true, they are just going apostate. Any religious group that does this is apostate, prima facia.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
 

opuntia

Religion is Law
Christ is not found by the faculties of reason. Philosophers use reason as the basis for finding relative truth in their fields of expertise. Christ is found, Paul the Apostle said, by the Holy Ghost:

"Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost." (1 Corinthians 12:3; KJV).

Reading Scripture alone will not suffice for a testimony, one may read the Scripture and know what it contains just as any other book is read. True testimony, according to Paul, goes beyond the ordinary and mundane, it is knowing by a revelation that Jesus is the Christ. Paul wrote:

"But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

"For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ." (Galatians 1:11-12).

Divine inspiration reveals Christ to the receptive soul.
 

rosewater

New Member
As a Muslim and studier of the Bible, I see there are many contradictions in the Bible. This should spark one reason why God Revealed the Holy Quran [Final Revelation] which is the only REVELATION of GOD in it's original form. The Bible itself is unreliable if it has contradictions. God Does not contradict. Contradiction no.1 Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel? a) God did (2 Samuel 24:1) or b) Satan did (1 Chronicles 21:1). Contradiction #2 In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel? a) Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9). b) One million, one hundred thousand (1 Chronicles 21:5). Mind you, there are tons more contradictions. Also, Jesus was tempted by the devil for 40 days and 40 nights in the desert. So, here also we can see, he is not God as God does not have any weakness.
Book of Acts: Jesus is a servant of God. Lastly, Paul is the inventor of Christianity. The Message of Jesus was Islam. Islam means submission to the will of Allah (God). Jesus never spoke of the Trinity for one thing. According to the Holy Quran, Isa [Jesus] said, "My Lord is your Lord." The Holy Quran accepts the Injeel which was Revelaed to Prophet Isa [jesus]. The Injeel is the Original Gospel which no longer exists. Islam is to accept the Original Revelation of God before alterations took place due to corruption. So, worship Allah [the One True God] Who Created Jesus. By the way Jesus was not his real name. Isau is the name for Jesus and Alaha is the name for God in the Aramaic Bible. Prophet Isa [jesus] spoke Aramaic and Hebrew.
The Holy Quran was Revealed to God's Final Messenger of God (Muhammad) through Angel Gabriel (Jibraeel). Angel Jibraeel is the Messenger Angel of God who was sent to the past Messengers and Prophets of God. Peace be upon them all.
Allah is the One True God
HOLY QURAN [7:194] Verily, those whom you call upon besides Allaah are slaves like you. So call upon them and let them answer you if you are truthful.
It is a fundamental truth that if one prays to a TREE it is really GOD who answers the call for help and not the tree. Prophet Muhammad [saws] said, "Allah answers the call of anyone in distress even if they are disbelievers." So worship the Creator and not the creation. The true believers in God are the ones who accept all the TRUE and unaltered Revelations of God and all the Messengers of God.
 

Krie

Member
i hold a lot of doubt b/c of how much just seems, twisted and how much of the original Bible might have been taken out or twisted by the Pope in the old days when all that mattered to them was ruling everyone by teaching them that Christianity was the right religion. But they had taken out pieces to hide some truth. I don't believe in liars
 
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