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Any Pro-Gun Liberals?

A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Mercy Not Sacrifice said:
Huh. Just shows you how much I know about guns. :D

I wonder, though, what exactly would be an effective handgun that is safe for innocent bystanders (and sleeping family members)? Or is using hollow points enough?
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The safest handgun would be a .22 cal with hollow point rounds and at least a 4 inch barrel. It's not very intimidating, but it does have some stopping power.

note: Selecting a Home Defense Gun

One reason that my primary weapon is a shotgun is because pistols are inherently underpowered. While handguns possess the advantages of portability and concealability, no handgun is what you can call sufficiently powerful for self defense. There are only degrees of being underpowered. To get real power, the kind reliably sufficient to halt an aggressor, you need to use a shotgun or rifle. This is especially true of the criminal has been drinking, is on drugs, or is the kind of endorphin junkie that gets excited by pain. (Yes, the latter does exist, and if you run into him you have a real problem on your hands.)


The shotgun also possesses the aforementioned advantage that with birdshot loads, the projectiles won't whiz through a criminal, the wall behind him, and go on to strike one of my family members. Another advantage, which is not to be discounted, is that the sound of the slide being worked on a pump-action shotgun is very intimidating. The .62 caliber bore of a 20 gauge is pretty scary if it's pointed at you, too. When you consider that according to the research of Professor Gary Kleck, of the million or more defensive gun usages which occur in the U.S. every year, the vast majority never see a shot fired because the threat of being shot is usually enough to stop the crime in progress, an intimidating appearance or sound is very valuable.



In my opinion, a short-barreled 20 or 12 gauge shotgun is the top choice as a home defense gun for most people.
Other good choices in pump-action shotguns include the Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 and 590.
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Reverend Rick

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
Mercy Not Sacrifice said:
Huh. Just shows you how much I know about guns. :D

I wonder, though, what exactly would be an effective handgun that is safe for innocent bystanders (and sleeping family members)? Or is using hollow points enough?
Click to expand...

Hollow points need to penetrate at least 12 inches to hit vitals. Full metal jacket or powerball ammo can go clean through and harm someone else with a stray shot because of over penetration.

9mm is fine, .357 and 40 caliber is better, but .45 caliber has a good reputation of getting the job done without over penetration. Larger calibers are worth nothing if you are not accurate with them while shooting under pressure. Stay away from .22's they can travel up to a mile.

With an adrenaline dump, you have sweaty palms, shaky hands and tunnel vision. Not good for shooting large caliber handguns without the proper practice and training.

A shot gun, although messy, is the best defense weapon you can have in your home. No worries about a round going down the street and killing someone off in the distance.
 
yossarian22

yossarian22

Resident Schizophrenic
angellous_evangellous said:
Ha! Not me. Around here people who break in at night commonly do so in armed groups (two to four men). I would doubt very seriously that a knife or sword would bother them much.
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If one or two of them have firearms, you are screwed even if you have a gun. Best option is to just make some noise and run. If they have knives, Its 10 to 1 that they can't use em. And its an even safer bet that the knives they use are very crappy and just used for intimidation. Switchblades can be broken with a good chop from your forearm. And with a knife, its easier to be non lethal and scary as hell at the same time.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
yossarian22 said:
If one or two of them have firearms, you are screwed even if you have a gun. Best option is to just make some noise and run. If they have knives, Its 10 to 1 that they can't use em. And its an even safer bet that the knives they use are very crappy and just used for intimidation. Switchblades can be broken with a good chop from your forearm. And with a knife, its easier to be non lethal and scary as hell at the same time.
Click to expand...

Obviously I disagree. Armed home invaders and stalkers have been killed with success around here. In fact, I hear of that more than the alternative.
 
Mister_T

Mister_T

Forum Relic
Premium Member
Kungfuzed said:
I want a samurai sword, but my wife won't let me get one. :sad4:

I had a 12 guage shotgun growing up. My dad keeps it at his place. I've never owned a handgun. If we ever have an intruder I'll have to grab a kitchen knife.
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I've got a full, samurai sword set above my computer and a katana right next to my bed (next to my base ball bat). I'm on the fence about guns.

My dad also has a 12 gauge next to his bed, of course he's not a liberal.
 
Smoke

Smoke

Done here.
Mister_T said:
I've got a full, samurai sword set above my computer and a katana right next to my bed (next to my base ball bat). I'm on the fence about guns.

My dad also has a 12 gauge next to his bed, of course he's not a liberal.
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My problem with all that -- well one of my problems -- is access. I'm a sound sleeper. By the time John wakes up, and wakes me up, the prowler has a samurai sword. The trick is, how do you make sure you can get to it quickly, but they can't?

A friend of my parents used to scatter the kids' toys in front of all the doors and windows when her husband was away, so if anybody came in they'd make a racket. Nearly shot her husband one night when he came home early. :D
 
doppelganger

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
I think keeping a gun in my house is more likely to end up with it being used to shoot me or a member of my family or a neighbor kid than it is to ward off an intruder. Personally, I'd rather stick a "Protected by Smith & Wesson" sign in the window and go without the gun.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
MidnightBlue said:
My problem with all that -- well one of my problems -- is access. I'm a sound sleeper. By the time John wakes up, and wakes me up, the prowler has a samurai sword. The trick is, how do you make sure you can get to it quickly, but they can't?
Click to expand...

1) Get a dog if you can. Dogs can usually hear stuff before we do, and barking will wake you up and hopefully scare off scumbags. I have a 80 pound Golden with a big deep bark - he's scared off police officers from the yard. I have him around precisely for this reason - I thought someone was in the yard in the dark and let out the dog - sure enough, it was a cop looking for someone. Scared the crap out of him.

2) Get an alarm system for the house, even if it's cheap. You can have it set up to detect windows breaking and doors opening, and the alarm can be very loud.

3) Keep a large flashlight and cell-phone by the bed. I use a large police-style Mag light that actually is my first go-to weapon. It's obviously dual-purpose... I can see what I need to and beat people with it (perfect for teens). It has a nice heavy metal casing that can be deadly.

mag-light.shotgun1.jpg


4) My shotgun is actually closer to me than the light, but I can reach the light faster. In any case, right beside me is all that I need.

Also a good idea is keeping a deadbolt on your bedroom door. Not practical if you have kids, but intruders will have to actually kick down two doors to get to me and the wife - plenty of time for me to be ready.
 
Mister_T

Mister_T

Forum Relic
Premium Member
MidnightBlue said:
My problem with all that -- well one of my problems -- is access. I'm a sound sleeper. By the time John wakes up, and wakes me up, the prowler has a samurai sword. The trick is, how do you make sure you can get to it quickly, but they can't?

A friend of my parents used to scatter the kids' toys in front of all the doors and windows when her husband was away, so if anybody came in they'd make a racket. Nearly shot her husband one night when he came home early. :D
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The swords are all in my room. Before anybody could even try to grab the samurai swords from off of my desk, they would first have to open my door and pass by my bed. Then assuming that they could actually see in the darkness of my room that I have a set of samurai swords above my desk, they would have to pull it out of the rack and unsheath one of them before I grab my katana that I sleep with right next to my head and hope that they can use a sword better than I can :D....if they are ranged with a gun of course, then I'm screwed.

My dad sleeps with his 12 gauge next to his bed. I don't try to ever physically wake him up, gun or not. There were a couple of time I physically woke him up while he was in his chair and he instinctivly punched me in the face (military training never leaves ya)....needless to say I wake him up with a broom now.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Mister_T said:
There were a couple of time I physically woke him up while he was in his chair and he instinctivly punched me in the face (military training never leaves ya)....needless to say I wake him up with a broom now.
Click to expand...

All well and good until he beats you with the broom.:D
 
Reverend Rick

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
MidnightBlue said:
The trick is, how do you make sure you can get to it quickly, but they can't?
Click to expand...

This is a big issue. You don't want to come home to an armed bad guy who broke in earlier and is armed with your weapon. I have my weapons locked away in a gun safe. I also have a small weapons safe bolted to the floor that is handy when things go bump in the night, it has a finger print recognition lock so I can access a hand gun quickly.

Gun ownership is a big responsibility that needs to be taken seriously. You must keep your weapons locked away AND be able to get to them at a moments notice. Some folks just have a creative hiding spot. That is better than nothing.

People serious about security have barriers to give an early warning. Fences, dogs or motion sensor lights offer additional time to be ready for an intruder. Just locking your storm door would slow an intruder down and cause him to make noise that could alert you. I have a driveway sensor that rings a door bell when someone pulls into my drive. It's super simple to add an additional light inside your bedroom tied to motion sensor lights on your home. Even when your not home, the light inside your house may send intruders away. The cheapest and safest thing you can do is have alarm company signs at your home, the alarm is optional. Most thieves pass you by for an easier mark. Same for dog owners.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Reverend Rick said:
This is a big issue. You don't want to come home to an armed bad guy who broke in earlier and is armed with your weapon. I have my weapons locked away in a gun safe. I also have a small weapons safe bolted to the floor that is handy when things go bump in the night, it has a finger print recognition lock so I can access a hand gun quickly.

Gun ownership is a big responsibility that needs to be taken seriously. You must keep your weapons locked away AND be able to get to them at a moments notice. Some folks just have a creative hiding spot. That is better than nothing.

People serious about security have barriers to give an early warning. Fences, dogs or motion sensor lights offer additional time to be ready for an intruder. Just locking your storm door would slow an intruder down and cause him to make noise that could alert you. I have a driveway sensor that rings a door bell when someone pulls into my drive. It's super simple to add an additional light inside your bedroom tied to motion sensor lights on your home. Even when your not home, the light inside your house may send intruders away. The cheapest and safest thing you can do is have alarm company signs at your home, the alarm is optional. Most thieves pass you by for an easier mark. Same for dog owners.
Click to expand...

My driveway sensor has an alarm on it, and I keep the alarm in the garage. That way I'm not awakened by stray cats and such, but the scumbag (or animal, or whatever) hears the alarm and not me. I have it on really loud, and I have heard it myself from the other side of the door. Some of my best work.:D

I like the idea of the safe, especially bolted to the floor with the fingerprinting. Very cool, but too slow for my area. I just take the 9mm with me when I go on trips and check out the house with it on arrival, leaving the guns locked when I leave, unlocked at home.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Reverend Rick said:
The cheapest and safest thing you can do is have alarm company signs at your home, the alarm is optional. Most thieves pass you by for an easier mark. Same for dog owners.
Click to expand...

I don't know of anything that has stopped folks in my city. Everyone in my area who has been burglarized has alarms, many have dogs. The guy who was shot had an alarm, but the scum kicked in his backdoor at 1pm in the afternoon on a Saturday (dispelling at least the sticker/sign myth). Another neighbor's alarm has scared off scumbags, but they either were too stupid to understand the signs or didn't care. Didn't care about the dog barking either, but it was small.

Anyway, with any luck they will die driving drunk or killing eachother over drugs or something before they murder someone else.
 
Todd

Todd

Rajun Cajun
Texas Lynn said:
I always have a Glock 9mm under the driver's seat of the van and always will.

Gun control is to me like abortion: if you don't believe in it, don't get one, and otherwise mind your own business.

The gun control panic by hunters, self-defense advocates, etc. stymied much social progress. People were tricked into voting against themselves and as a liberal i have to say it was our own dang fault.
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I'm not liberal, but I have a friend that is liberal, and he's actually looking into getting a hand gun. As for myself, I have several (38 special, 22 long rifle, Mac 90 rifle). Although, I hate killing things, so I only use them at the target range.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Todd said:
I'm not liberal, but I have a friend that is liberal, and he's actually looking into getting a hand gun. As for myself, I have several (38 special, 22 long rifle, Mac 90 rifle). Although, I hate killing things, so I only use them at the target range.
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Would you use your guns to defend your life?
 
Todd

Todd

Rajun Cajun
angellous_evangellous said:
Would you use your guns to defend your life?
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Yes I would (with no hesitation), if I was put into that situation. Funny thing is, I almost had to pull out my gun last night shortly after going to bed. I was laying there, and all of a sudden, I heard a gun shot. It's happened before, so I'm starting to get used to it.
 
Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I grew up in a rural area where most people had at least a shotgun in the house, and nearly everyone was taught to use firearms responsibly. Despite the sheer quantity of guns in my county, there had been only one murder in 125 years at the time I was growing up. So, I tend to be ok with guns, although I bemoan the increasing tendency of people -- especially in urban areas -- to use them against each other.
 
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