Gay adoption is good for children

Remember, we're talking about adoption here, so none of this would apply. And, obviously, having a great relationship with someone doesn't require being exactly like them.

It's not required, but it sure helps having a few things in common. I think an older man would get along a lot better with a boy than a lesbian more often than not.

I am suggesting that it is better for the children to allow gay and lesbian couples to adopt them.

Yes, having parents, gay or not, is better than not having parents, I agree.

do you have any research to support your assertion that children with a mom and a dad are in any way mentally healthier than children with two moms or two dads?

It's just common sense to me, it's something I assume, I don't need nor care about so called research. I think most of the time a child with traditional parents will encounter less problems in their life, not's not to say they still won't have a good life aside from any bumps in the road. But like I said " you can't have masculine without feminine, therefore having both a masculine and feminine influence is a must to ensure the mental health of a child. I'm not saying it's not possible, but it's not the best for a child "

Autodidact said:

No, not better than adoption by a heterosexual family. My assertion is that it is better for children to allow gay and lesbian couples to be eligible to adopt them, the same as heterosexual couples.

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Well you know my feelings on this. I tihnk it is good for a child to have a mother and a father in the picture. You have to have two different perspectives in life. Two men or two women, regardless of how manly or feminine they are, are only going to offer one side. God loves wonderous variety. Gay adoption seems kind of repetitious.

Autodidact said:

But why is that preferred? Why is that a better role model?

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Because the odds are greater that is the relationship they will wind up in and consequently it should be modeled.

I think sandy has laid it out better than myself, at least more intelligently =)

kdrier said:

I think sandy has laid it out better than myself, at least more intelligently =)

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Wow, it's been a while since anyone has accused me of being intelligent.

9-10ths_Penguin said:

Why do you think that people would tend to follow the same pattern of behaviour as their parents in the way you've suggested?

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Human nature.

sandy whitelinger said:

Because the odds are greater that is the relationship they will wind up in and consequently it should be modeled.

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Then we should make a special effort to see that gay children are brought up by straight parents.

But actually, that's just silly. My parents taught me very well, by example, how a loving couple relate to each other and how they treat each other, and it's stood me in good stead in my marriage despite the fact that they're in an opposite-sex marriage and I'm in a same-sex marriage. If we needed a model that was exactly like ourselves, my parents' example would have been useless to me. The sex of the parents isn't what matters.

kdrier said:

see when two people have a child, usually their child is similar in one way or another, because they are produced the same genetics as their parents.. obviously.. that's biology.

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Not so. Genetics are not the only thing that make you who you are. Nature vs. nurture, they're both important.

There is a balance to life. You can't have black without white, you can't have the good without the bad. You can't have an up without a down, and you can't have masculine without feminine, therefore having both a masculine and feminine influence is a must to ensure the mental health of a child. I'm not saying it's not possible, but it's not the best for a child

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Who says the immediate family is a closed system? Was your mother the only adult female role-model in your entire life?

sorry this post might get kinda long...

kdrier said:

Hmm, I've never really gave the subject much thought.

My instinct disagrees with it I must admit. I'm not against queers or anything, whatever floats their boat, as long as they keep to themselves. but I don't think they would be good for raising children.

First of all the homosexuals are not suppose to have kids, I guess it's like some kind of genetic defect or something, but people who are attracted to the same sex are obviously not ment to reproduce, therefore they are not ment to have children. Not only that but the child would be ridiculed and made fun of most of their life for it, which would probably lead them to depression and all kind of mental disorders. Gay people are usually really sensitive to feelings and things of that nature, and it would probably rub off on their children way to much. Parents have more influence on their children than anyone else.

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gays are very resilient. i went through 5 years of rather intense bullying at school because i was gay, i took it and put up with it for 5 years before i started complaining. i know lots of homosexuals who's testimony is the same as mine. we are very, very resilient when we need to be.

Random said:

Really, the question should be; What happens if a child of same-sex parents grows up heterosexual but imbued with a dissociative complex regarding the opposite sex due to the parents negative attitude towards their opposite sex? For example, the daughter of a Lesbian couple who wants to engage men sexually, but is emotional stunted in relation to males due to her parents lifetime of treating the opposite sex like the untouchable "other". Where is her sex life and prospect of happiness in relationships going to wind up? Likewise, the son of a male homosexual couple who is sexually attracted to girls. What's his template? A boy without a mother is going to make a very f**ked up man, and a girl without male idols is going to be disadvantaged in attempting to forge lasting and emotionally fulfilling relationships with men. IMO, only...

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then the parents are perhaps not fit parents.

kdrier said:

I guess my main concern would be that a homosexual couple might be overly sensitive to their children, as in I find it highly likely that they might be over protective of their children, or give them a semi-sheltered lifestyle, and if they did not subtely force a sheltered lifestyle onto their child, I'm sure the child would live one anyway. It's just weird, that's all. I'm sure they would not feel to comfortable taking their friends or significant others to their house to meet their homosexual parents.

For me, my dad is like my best friend and father. We talk about everything, drink beer together, you name it. My mom is very caring and motherly like. I don't talk to my mom the same way I do my dad, she has a feminine view on everything, we can't relate most of the time. I find it very important in raising a child they have both feminine and masculine influences in their life, because too much of just one isn't healthy in my opinion.

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no, i think most gays would actually be aware of their own past, of societies views towards them, and take that into consideration when raising children. of course there will be a few gay parents who bring their child up to be very sheltered, but so do some straight parents, so this isn't really a valid point, as this is more an issue on individual aptitude to raise kids than it is an issue on sexuality and family life.

kdrier said:

There is a "what if" to every scenario, and parameters to every scenario. If my dad was quite different from me I'm sure my life wouldn't be nearly as amazing as it is...I would be content probably. see when two people have a child, usually their child is similar in one way or another, because they are produced the same genetics as their parents.. obviously.. that's biology. I'd say nearly all the guys I know share a great relationship with their father, is it a must? no, but it sure helps in the raising of a child.

I'd say 9/10 times a traditional family is better for raising a child, for obvious reasons. Of course there is circumstances. If the child does not have ANY parents, sure, a homosexual couple willing to take them in would be great. If a kid had alcoholic parents, sure, a homosexual couple might be the best for them. I think biological parents play more in things than people think.

There is a balance to life. You can't have black without white, you can't have the good without the bad. You can't have an up without a down, and you can't have masculine without feminine, therefore having both a masculine and feminine influence is a must to ensure the mental health of a child. I'm not saying it's not possible, but it's not the best for a child

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i don't feel you have gone far enough to make obvious the "obvious reasons" for why a traditional family unit is best.

kdrier said:

So yes, depending on the scenario, I agree with gay and lesbian adoption. I don't agree with artificial insemination to lesbian couples though.

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that's nice, i'm grateful that you agree with gay and lesbian adoption to the extent that you do. i don't much care for your opinion on lesbians having artificial insemination, but that's for a different thread.




now then, you may have noticed that i have colored some parts of some posts red. i am going to address all of these parts i have colored red now.

all of the points colored in red are making the same point, that children need a male and a female role model in their lives as they are growing up, although for some reason no one has explained or justified this notion. this is my counter to this point: is the family just who ever lives in the house? no it is not, there is the extended family of aunts, uncles, cousins, grand parents etc. there are plenty of male and female role models in the extended family gay parents could use for their kids to draw upon if they feel that they are lacking certain gender-specific qualities their kids need to learn from. not that i believe there are gender-specific qualities, and i don't believe a kid will be adversely affected by not having parents of different sexes, but for those who do believe this, the extended family and the friends of the parents can counter this imbalance.

i was going to include my response to this post in my last post, but i felt like singling it out for what it is - the biggest contradiction i have seen in this thread.

rheff78 said:

Well you know my feelings on this. I tihnk it is good for a child to have a mother and a father in the picture. You have to have two different perspectives in life. Two men or two women, regardless of how manly or feminine they are, are only going to offer one side. God loves wonderous variety. Gay adoption seems kind of repetitious.

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God loves variety, but gays shouldn't be parents? that is hysterical. or is it only the variety that you approve of that God loves? variety of family types not a valid variety to have?

L.O.L.

Mike182 said:

this is my counter to this point: is the family just who ever lives in the house? no it is not, there is the extended family of aunts, uncles, cousins, grand parents etc. there are plenty of male and female role models in the extended family gay parents could use for their kids to draw upon if they feel that they are lacking certain gender-specific qualities their kids need to learn from. not that i believe there are gender-specific qualities, and i don't believe a kid will be adversely affected by not having parents of different sexes, but for those who do believe this, the extended family and the friends of the parents can counter this imbalance.

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Not that I don't agree with what you are saying, but isn't that a little unfair to the extended family to be expected to play that much of a roll into the child's development? In my case that wouldn't be an issue as my extended family is very important and close to me but I don't expect all families to operate like that. Very frequently, I find that my friends have aunts and uncles that they don't see on a regular basis and the only family they consider having are those in their immediate family. Anyway, not sure where I wanted to go with this but just thinking out loud. Maybe it would be better to concentrate on the immediate family first with the mindset that extended family isn't going to have any part in the child's development? If the extended family wants to have an active role and do as you suggest then that's great but if not, well, we planned for that scenario as well.

Why gay adoption is good for children:
1. If you have a heart of steel, go to the website of your state's Department of Social Services, and click on a link for "waiting children." There you will see the beautiful faces of dozens of children who did not choose to be born to parents who couldn't take care of them, and who have been living in foster care, children whose only wish and desire is a "forever family." They deserve to get one, but there just aren't enough of them to go around. If gay and lesbian families are available and willing to adopt some of these children, as I have, it would make their dreams come true.
2. That may be why every child welfare agency favors allowing gay and lesbian people to adopt.

The Child Welfare League of America's (CWLA) official position is that gay, lesbian, and bisexual parents are as well suited to raise children as their heterosexual counterparts.

"The CWLA supports the case by case placements of children in qualified adoptive homes and those homes can include gay men and lesbians," Rob Woronoff, a Director at the Child Welfare League of America, told NOW on April 3, 2006

The Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute, a national adoption organization, strongly supports the rights of gays and lesbians to adopt, and urges that remaining obstacles be removed.

"The bottom line for those of us who advocate for children is clear," said Adam Pertman, the Executive Director of the Adoption Institute in a March 23, 2006 statement. "There's simply no credible research to indicate that children are harmed in any way when they're adopted by gay and lesbian parents, but there's lots of evidence to indicate that they do well in those homes."

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from here.
3. All of the unbiased research based on sound methodology has found that children of gay and lesbian parents do at least as well on every measurable outcome as children of heterosexual families.

Certainly, research has found no reasons to believe lesbian mothers or gay fathers to be unfit parents ... On the contrary, results of research suggest that lesbian and gay parents are as likely as heterosexual parents to provide supportive home environments for children.

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The research is summarized here.

jringer04 said:

Not that I don't agree with what you are saying, but isn't that a little unfair to the extended family to be expected to play that much of a roll into the child's development? In my case that wouldn't be an issue as my extended family is very important and close to me but I don't expect all families to operate like that. Very frequently, I find that my friends have aunts and uncles that they don't see on a regular basis and the only family they consider having are those in their immediate family. Anyway, not sure where I wanted to go with this but just thinking out loud. Maybe it would be better to concentrate on the immediate family first with the mindset that extended family isn't going to have any part in the child's development? If the extended family wants to have an active role and do as you suggest then that's great but if not, well, we planned for that scenario as well.

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i concede your point, not everyone sees their extended family regularly, and it certainly would be unfair to commit them to a child against their will. the point i was trying to address and counter was the point that a gay parentage lacks any sense of a masculine/feminine balance and lacks either a male or female role model to the point where we should forbid gay adoption. if it is found that gay parents are lacking in this aspect, it can easily be balanced by introducing a strong male or female character into the child's life.

As for the role model issue, I think that what children need as role models are good people, people with morals, caring people, who can model for the child how to be a functioning, caring, competent adult. I just don't think that the gender aspect of role modelling is that important--children grow up to be the gender they are born, and express their individual version of that. They have plenty of opportunity to observe people of both genders around them every day, not only in the extended family, but at school, with friends, in clubs, through siblings, and so forth. What gay and lesbian adoptive parents model is contributing to society by committing to taking care of a child, and that is more important than teaching "how to be a young lady" or "how to be a real man."

kdrier said:

do you have any research to support your assertion that children with a mom and a dad are in any way mentally healthier than children with two moms or two dads?

It's just common sense to me, it's something I assume, I don't need nor care about so called research. I think most of the time a child with traditional parents will encounter less problems in their life, not's not to say they still won't have a good life aside from any bumps in the road. But like I said " you can't have masculine without feminine, therefore having both a masculine and feminine influence is a must to ensure the mental health of a child. I'm not saying it's not possible, but it's not the best for a child "

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I have colored red that part of your post which indicates a blatant disregard for reality.
In fact, there are actually some ways in which gay and lesbian parents outshine heterosexual parents.

I think love is the most important part of any child's upbringing. I could care less what their sexual orientation is as parents, it's the love they give the child. And the child they bring up would be one less homophobic person in the world.

I don't even know why people are even bothering to discuss this. This should be a non-issue.

What it boils down to is that it anyone could be a good or bad parent regardless of their sexual orientation or anything else.

Given that I can't seem to find the actual methods used in the study. Didn't see any mention of alpha levels or anything eye popping, so I have to go with the null hypothesis here. Gay/Lesbian parents are equal to heterosexual parents in parental skills, as well as everything else.

As this is kind of a new concept I think we have to wait a few years and see what the end result is psychologically on the adopted children.

Somkid said:

As this is kind of a new concept I think we have to wait a few years and see what the end result is psychologically on the adopted children.

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i sort of agree with you, but there are much worse things for a kid to grow up with than gay parents, which while damaging, are not the end of the world. i don't think there are going to be any adverse affects of gay adoption on kids psychologically speaking.