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Please respond and help me

DivineLegend

New Member
I am looking for answers and explanations about religion, and i hope i have come to the right place. I truely want to believe and have faith, but i am having a real hard time wrapping my analytical mind around something that i can't touch. My entire family are Southern Baptists, which is how i was raised. And for the longest time they have been pushing me to try and find the answers that i seek. So i have come to you all in hopes of trying to help everything make sense to me. Im not even sure if im posting this in the right place.

I have been through so much in my life, things that some people still believe only happens in the movies. Im in law enforcement, so not only have i experienced things, but ive been witness to some horrible things as well in my profession. Im not sure what i believe any more to be honest with you. Im not even sure if i believe that there is a God. I do believe in good and evil, however. that much i know for sure. It is really hard for me to trust in anything that i dont have proof of. And i know that this is one subject that i wont ever have physical proof of until its too late.

One of my main problems is the way i think about things. In my experience, my mind works differently than most peoples. Take cussing for instance. To me, cussing is not a sin. However, it is how you mean something, that is the sin. "Cuss" words were invented by humanity. And normally, throughout history have always meant bad things. But in todays society, i can say a cuss word, and not mean anything bad by it. I would give an example, but im not sure how you all would take that. If i was saying the word in effect to degrade something or someone, etc etc, then yes i consider it a sin. But if im just saying the word in a sentence and mean absolutely no harm or ill will towards anyone, how can it be a sin? Which, in my mind, turns it into just a word, and no longer a cuss word, hence, no longer a sin. Do you see what i mean by the way my mind works now?

To me, it is hard to live in the modern world with an analytical mind, and try to wrap your mind around the concept of religion. A concept that hasn't changed since it was created. Its hard for me to just believe in something. Because, in my experience, most of the things you believe in and trust in, turns out in disaster.

I guess the biggest question for me, is creation. Regardless of how everything was created (by god, big bang theory, etc etc) something had to exist before everything else, where did that something come from? If i have a blank page in front of me, i cant create anything without a pencil /pen, ok, where did the pencil/pen come from? If God created the universe, what/who created God? If the bible is 2000 and some odd years old, who's to say someone hasnt altered it as a joke, or for their best interest, or to have it interrupted into what they want it to say? I feel like the entire universe is a source of amusement/disappointment. It might have been something different at one time, according to the bible, God use to have his hand in everything, but now, the only time you even hear of God talking to someone is from some mental patient in a psych ward, or from someone who saw or heard something and "believes" it to be god, which ends in them completely devoting their life to God. It gives me the sense that God had been disappointed by his creation too much in the past to even care what happens now.

I asked my brother this question today... A man was arrested where i live recently for capital murder. he kidnapped a teenage girl and chopped her body up into pieces and ate her. I asked my brother if this man asked for forgiveness and believed in god, and ended up going to heaven, would he agree with that? and my brother said yes. I said, ok now, what if i, your brother, were to live my life as a cop, and helped people throughout my life, but never believed in god, and i went to hell, would he agree with that? and he said yes.
Does anyone see anything wrong with this picture besides me? I completely devote my life to saving and helping others and i go to hell, but a man who can torture someone and kill them can go to heaven. Am i the only person who has a problem with this picture? I live my life to make the world a better place, and he lives his to make it worse, and i am in the wrong? how is that right? How can any good human being worship God, when he plays by those standards? How? I can not, and i refuse to, but i dont want to believe that that is the truth of it. If i help people, and save peoples lives, and make the world a better place, i am doomed for eternity just because i dont believe in someone that has given me absolutely nothing to believe in? Im sure it would be different for me if i had lived the perfect life, or even a normal life, or if this was a perfect world, or even a normal world. But i havent, and its not. I dont blame God for anything that has happened to me, nor do i hate him for allowing them to happen to me. But, i am who i am today, and i believe what i believe today because of the hardships i have faced. How can he punish me for that? just because he can? i dont understand...

I dont want to believe, and i can not make myself believe, in a God that would do such a thing. How can he judge me for not believing in him, even though i live a good life, and i help humanity, when he flooded the world and killed millions of living things? I asked that question to my family, and they told me that the people who died were evil... ok... how does that make sense? the man who killed that teenage girl and ate her is evil as well, but he still has the chance to go to heaven, and i dont unless i believe?

I could talk about this for forever, and i still have so many points to make, but i want to see what you all have to say. Maybe someone can help me and explain this to me so that i can understand.


Thank you, and i appologize if i have offended anyone, it is not my intent, i am just lost and im trying to find my way.

Brandon
 

methylatedghosts

Can't brain. Has dumb.
Don't worry too much about figuring out a label for yourself. Take things as they come. I would certainly say, that if you spend time searching these forums here, you'll find something that will ring true for you. There are so many PoV around that I guarantee you'll find your own niche.

I do look forward to other posts you make though!

Just remember, sometimes to find the "right" you need to dismiss what you already "know"
 

DivineLegend

New Member
I don't think you have a problem. I think your family members are the ones who are confused.

i agree, i dont think i will ever be able to believe everything that they do and i dont necessarily agree with the things that they believe.

Just remember, sometimes to find the "right" you need to dismiss what you already "know"

Thank you for that Meth, i am doing my best to go into this with an open mind, but all i have to base anything on is from the baptist religion, and from what my family has told me. I'll keep searching the forums. I've already found this forum quite interesting, if not helpful just yet, i definately like how everyone seems to have an open mind here.
 

Nick Soapdish

Secret Agent
Excellent insight Divine Legend.

As a Christian, I believe we live in a broken world, and God has a plan to fix it. As you know, the world is not always a nice place. It is hard to understand how a loving God can put suffering in the world, but suffering is necessary for us to understand acts of love. If no one suffered, then we would have no need for acts of love. God has put together a powerful human story which He is a central participant.

For some of us God's existence is obvious--as you have implied there is so much elegance, complexity and awesomeness in the Universe for it to pop into existence by itself. I believe God is infinite and does need a creator.. he is simply the opposite of nothing existing.

There is a lot of reasoning that can go into being a believer, but in the end it is a matter of heart--it is possible to doubt God. Christianity requires faith and hope.

Thank you for your service in law enforcement. I have only a vague idea of how challenging of a career it is, but it is very much appreciated.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I asked my brother this question today... A man was arrested where i live recently for capital murder. he kidnapped a teenage girl and chopped her body up into pieces and ate her. I asked my brother if this man asked for forgiveness and believed in god, and ended up going to heaven, would he agree with that? and my brother said yes. I said, ok now, what if i, your brother, were to live my life as a cop, and helped people throughout my life, but never believed in god, and i went to hell, would he agree with that? and he said yes.

Does anyone see anything wrong with this picture besides me?
Uh... yeah. No wonder you're frustrated, confused, etc. etc. etc. Anyway, welcome to RF. You have come to the right place! I enjoyed your intro, even though it kind of made me angry with your brother. (Sorry, I suppose he's probably a nice enough guy.) Keep posting. Keep asking questions. Explore all of the possibilities and I suspect you'll find some answers that satisfy you.
 

methylatedghosts

Can't brain. Has dumb.
Thank you for that Meth, i am doing my best to go into this with an open mind, but all i have to base anything on is from the baptist religion, and from what my family has told me. I'll keep searching the forums. I've already found this forum quite interesting, if not helpful just yet, i definately like how everyone seems to have an open mind here.

Sweet as bro!

Some of my greatest insights have come from thinking "what if I was wrong". (It's that kind of thinking that allowed Columbus to discover America wasn't it? :D)
 

Somkid

Well-Known Member
Not all religions are "come and believe, do as I say" some are come and see, if it works for you take what you need and leave the rest...
 
A power that can create the universe would certainly have more compassion for His creation than some religions would have you believe. Jesus Christ said you must come to Him as a child. This makes sense to me because a child would come with complete trust and leave it up to Him. The more I try to analyze and rationalize hell the more confused I get. It doesn't make sense to me. It really stirs me up when any religious person no matter what religion says God will seen you to hell for eternal suffering and damnation. I figure a loving, merciful God would at least be as compassionate as me and I would never send another human soul to hell for eternity. Maybe some (like the butcher) need a good cleansing to rid them of evil. Maybe some would have nothing left if the evil was destroyed. Anyway I am not going to search for God just for fear of hell. My search will be to know the magnificent Power that created the universe and the wonderful miracle of life.
 

Rolling_Stone

Well-Known Member
Not all religions are "come and believe, do as I say" some are come and see, if it works for you take what you need and leave the rest...
Frubals, Somkid.

God is not within you to be worshipped, feared, or even to be understood, DivineLegend, but to be experienced and known. God-as-a-concept not there to be placed on a pedestal, but to point to the source of one's own essence.

For many, the keys to the doors of heaven are found in the depths of hell.
 

DivineLegend

New Member
Uh... yeah. No wonder you're frustrated, confused, etc. etc. etc. Anyway, welcome to RF. You have come to the right place! I enjoyed your intro, even though it kind of made me angry with your brother. (Sorry, I suppose he's probably a nice enough guy.) Keep posting. Keep asking questions. Explore all of the possibilities and I suspect you'll find some answers that satisfy you.

ya tell me about it, frustration is a feeling i have been fighting for quite some time regarding this particular topic. Im glad i have come to the right place, i wasnt so sure at first... When i first started this post it was much longer, and a lot more detailed, but 3/4's of the way through i got an error message from internet explorer and it closed down my browser, LOL, talk about ironic, i just sat there for a few minutes, looked at the ceiling, and decided to rewrite it, but it got a lot shorter this time, lol.

And as far as my brother, well, he is a good guy, hasnt always been that way though, in fact he is the reason for one of the hardships ive faced in my life. One of those "only in the movies" things i was talking about. Probably a little too vulgar to talk about on a forum based around religion though.

And Nick...

I do agree with you there, i believe ( and the only reason i do is because who i have become from the things i have overcomed and survived) that you can not truely appreciate things in life if you have been fed from a silver spoon all your life. Take my girlfriend for instance, there is no way i would feel the way i do about her or appreciate the small things that she does, if i hadnt ever been mistreated and cheated on and etc etc. She treats me like a King, but i would have never realized that if i hadnt been treated like a peasant in the past.



Thank you all for the warm welcome, and believe me, i have many things to discuss, and will share my two cents when i can.
 

DivineLegend

New Member
A power that can create the universe would certainly have more compassion for His creation than some religions would have you believe. Jesus Christ said you must come to Him as a child. This makes sense to me because a child would come with complete trust and leave it up to Him. The more I try to analyze and rationalize hell the more confused I get. It doesn't make sense to me. It really stirs me up when any religious person no matter what religion says God will seen you to hell for eternal suffering and damnation. I figure a loving, merciful God would at least be as compassionate as me and I would never send another human soul to hell for eternity. Maybe some (like the butcher) need a good cleansing to rid them of evil. Maybe some would have nothing left if the evil was destroyed. Anyway I am not going to search for God just for fear of hell. My search will be to know the magnificent Power that created the universe and the wonderful miracle of life.

I was raised into the Southern Baptist religion as a child. It was easy back then, but i have to say that i am glad for the way things happened. I, the person that i am today, would not want to be blindly led into believing in something. I prefer the choice i have now, to research religion and speak with people to decide my own way. I am not saying it is wrong to have a child grow into a religion, and maybe "blindly led" is the wrong way to put that, but what i am trying to say is, atleast concerning my family, there never was a choice, it was the way they were raised and they refuse to look in any other direction. They are narrow and simple minded people, which leads me to the solution that i MUST have been adopted because i am nothing like them, mentally or spiritually. I feel like, as a child, i was forced into believing what everyone around me believed, and i like the fact that i have an open mind, and that i have a choice, even if i choose wrong, i will be happy, and i will live my life the way i continue to live it. I just feel that there are a lot of religions that are an easy "no", and what i mean by that is, its easy for me to decide that that isnt the religion for me. For example, my girlfriend is a Jehovah's Witness, and after talking with her, some of the things she has told me about what they believe, and the "guidelines" you have to live by or your disfellowshipped (practically banned from them and anyone who is of that religion) i can easily decide "hey, thats not for me."

But yes, that is what i was trying to say, i will not seek God only for the purpose of fearing what will happen to me after death. I feel that that is what someone like the murderer i told you about would do. And that is a point my mother has tried to instill into my head several times "if you dont believe in God, your going to hell when you die" Ahhh, ok, i should force myself to believe just because of the punishment i might recieve if i dont? i dont think so. thats not for me. I believe the things i believe because of my experiences, i do not believe in anything because of fear. i do not fear death, nor do i fear what comes after death. i have lived a good life. i have saved lives. i have changed lives. If i am to be punished for that, then i will face it with open arms because i am not afraid, a clinched jaw because i will not scream, and pride because i will face my punishment with no regrets.

I am a good man, and a loving, caring human being. I have saved lives and changed them for the better, should i accept anything less from God?
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
First off, Brandon, welcome to the looney bin known as RF. I hope you enjoyed your frubal. :)

I see the "holy rollers" have avoided commenting in this thread, so far, and that is good. Friend, you do not have your head on backwards. You are seeing things as they are. You have nothing whatsoever to fear from that which is within you. My advice is to ignore the theists who insist on their fiery hell worlds. "Tis nothing more than the ol' carrot and stick routine tarted up to pass muster, but still, in reality, is a tawdry whore of understanding."

"God" for lack of a better word is not what you have been led to believe. I don't have much use for "god" concepts any longer, but there is something "there" and it is rooting for you. It wants you to be the best person you can be and from the sounds of it you are doing just fine. To me, "god" doesn't give a flying fooey if you do things "right" or do things "wrong". All it wants you to do is do the very best that you are capable -- to use your resourcefulness and not cower away from adversity. Being a police officer, I am sure you have that one down pretty well by now, hehe.

The thing is Brandon, you save lives, you make a difference. You know that. Tell me, what kind of "god" would be anything less than your own example? Forget the fools, toss the so-called "scriptures" aside and simply do what you must. It may sound hollow, coming from a stranger on an internet forum, but I personally assure you that the service you provide to your fellow man does not go unnoticed, even if you might feel that way at times.

Welcome aboard.
 

kai

ragamuffin
welcome to Rf you will find lots of info and advice here heed it or ignore it its your choice ,its up to you , i am in general agreement with what Ymirgf has said so that saves me typing too much ,

once again welcome
 

DivineLegend

New Member
Thank you Ymir and Kai.

I have no clue what a frubal is, but i have over 3000 of them, lol. And thank you for the comments about my chosen profession. It means a lot to me to know that there are people out there who actually appreciate the things that i do. Its hard some times to believe that because the only people i am ever around hate me just because i wear a badge. Your compliments warm my heart, and i am honored by your words.
 

Rolling_Stone

Well-Known Member
In Hinduism, at least from what I've read, the way of the mind, the intellect, is the most difficult.

You are on the brink of a grand adventure, my friend. Your darkest moment will be your shining moment: when you shake your fist at the heavens and swear by all that is holy that you will not accept the material universe as a viable aspect of reality, you will have transcended the barrenness that your cultural conditioning supports (but you may not recognize it as a turning point for many years).
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Hi, Brandon!

I believe it's relatively easy to demonstrate that various intangibles are important, too!

(I'm a Baha'i, BTW. If you're investigating the various religions, I commend you and encourage you to investigate the Baha'i Faith as well as the other great religions! I won't, however, presume to tell you what you should believe or which path you should follow: that's YOUR decision!)

As to the importance of things intangible, I would draw your attention to marriage.

You probably agree that love and marriage are important, and indeed may well be married yourself!

Yet love is an eminently intangible thing, and there is NO WAY one can objectively prove that person A loves person B because A might be acting for any of a number of private reasons (some of them possibly ulteriour). Nonetheless, millions of folks stipulate love and marry every day!

And I put it to you that God and religion are no different in this respect. While the evidence and the proofs are largely subjective rather than objective, it is nonetheless eminently possible to arrive at reasoned conclusions and then to act on them!

So I give you many regards, and wish you good hunting! :)

Bruce
 

Wandered Off

Sporadic Driveby Member
My entire family are Southern Baptists, which is how i was raised. And for the longest time they have been pushing me to try and find the answers that i seek.
I was also raised in a loving Southern Baptist family, and I ended up with many of the questions you have. It seemed I was having to stretch more and more to reconcile what was being preached with what I was observing in the world.

Eventually, I realized the effort was misplaced, and I would be better off simply observing what is and drawing conclusions from that. It meant ignoring second-hand revelation. It meant ignoring other humans who claimed contact with God. I found it also meant a rapturous release from imposed guilt and fear, mind traps created to resist my departure. By letting go of those beliefs, I realized I was not failing God at all, despite their dire warnings.

You have indeed come to a great place to get many perspectives. If you're like me, you can find something to agree with in almost all of them. As Somkid said, take what works and don't sweat the rest.
 

roli

Born Again,Spirit Filled
I am looking for answers and explanations about religion, and i hope i have come to the right place.
To perfectly frank with you DL, we are all loooking for answers,as a Christian, born again believer in Jesus Christ, I still scratch my head about lifes circumstances, but the answers you are looking for must come from somewhere within, men may lead you to some ideas and even some personal views and opinions of what they have themselves expereinced or arrived at, but ultimately it will come from and I believe is already within you.
I'm not describing humanistic mindset where you are the be all end all, where your the power in the universe and you can achieve godhood ,or some notion like that.
But I beleive what you learned as a child and expereinced as an adult are part and parcel in your finding answers about God, relgion,your purpose, where you came from, why your here and where your going when you die.
These are all questions we ask and will continually ask.


I truely want to believe and have faith, but i am having a real hard time wrapping my analytical mind around something that i can't touch. My entire family are Southern Baptists, which is how i was raised. And for the longest time they have been pushing me to try and find the answers that i seek. So i have come to you all in hopes of trying to help everything make sense to me. Im not even sure if im posting this in the right place.
Well you must be prepared to find a diverse group of people here and although there are some really good people ,my hope is that you don't get further confused because although they are all nice people there are so many contridictory views towards christianity alone that would make anyone shake their head and much is contrary to sound doctrine if that's what you have read.
In regards to the Christian faith ,as a baptist background you understand the story of creation, heaven, hell, the cross ,sin, judgement etc.
I'm not here to hit that message home to you it's not my job,but if you want a site where many people water that particulr message down,make it,"user friendly, revamp the story to possibly soothe their purpose, you have come to the right place.

I must confess the positional world views, oppositions, rejecting, refutations of the full gospel message of Jesus Christ regarding the subjects I mentioned above are presently in the world as I'm sure you know and you will find it rampid on this site as well.
Those who say they are christian based according to what Christ and the great writers of scripture qualify one as being Christian, they are diametrically opposed in many ways. That's where I hope you don't get confused

I'm trying not to be bias here, but the world downplays and has always watered down and or rejected the full or very important parts of the message Jesus taught regarding the teachings of Christ, heaven hell, holiness,judgment,sin ,punishment etc.
I look at it this way, it's more suitable for any of us to create a god in our minds that will love us all ,despite what we have done and not assign punishment,render consequence or serve justice. How easy to follow a god like that who see's no problem in our lying,hating,murdering,conveting, adulterous, fornicating hearts.
But society today looks for a seeker sensitive relgion, politically correct

I have been through so much in my life, things that some people still believe only happens in the movies. Im in law enforcement, so not only have i experienced things, but ive been witness to some horrible things as well in my profession. Im not sure what i believe any more to be honest with you. Im not even sure if i believe that there is a God. I do believe in good and evil, however. that much i know for sure. It is really hard for me to trust in anything that i dont have proof of. And i know that this is one subject that i wont ever have physical proof of until its too late.
I agree and those times of confusion and doubt are bound to come ,but keep your head up and always rememebr what it is you've learned and experienced in your past
......(I'll continue later I'm probable over my word count)
 
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