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New Hampshire Debates

Buttercup

Veteran Member
Who was strongest tonight?

Did you change your mind about any candidate?

I was quite impressed with John Edwards this time around. His passion for drop kicking special interest groups and lobbyists seems genuine. Still, I'm not sure that topic is of enough importance to Americans to gather much steam for himself toward a vote.

Hillary overall has the most experience. Do Americans want change so badly they'll overlook that attribute in favor of a lesser experienced candidate like Obama?

Did you gain any ground toward who to vote for?
 

BUDDY

User of Aspercreme
Who was strongest tonight?

Did you change your mind about any candidate?

I was quite impressed with John Edwards this time around. His passion for drop kicking special interest groups and lobbyists seems genuine. Still, I'm not sure that topic is of enough importance to Americans to gather much steam for himself toward a vote.

Hillary overall has the most experience. Do Americans want change so badly they'll overlook that attribute in favor of a lesser experienced candidate like Obama?

Did you gain any ground toward who to vote for?
John Edwards - He is a triel lawyer and a member of the American Bar Association, probably the largest special interest groups in America (lawyers). I have a hard time trusting a guy who is so obviously hypocritical.

Hillary Clinton - Not even a full term as a Senator. I am not sure how she qualifies all of her experience. I am not sure that eight years as the wife of a president is qualification (never has been before). Also, she has never been elected to public office prior to her recent run for state senator. Besides, she waffles so much, I am not sure anyone knows what her stance is on Iraq and Immigration even is anymore.

Barack Obama - Say what you want about the guy, but at least he is consistent. You may not agree with all of his positions, but he can inspire and convince others of his stance. He is by far the most "presidential" of all the big three candates.

Personally, I think Richardson has the most experience out of all of them. Of course, I am a republican and won't be voting for any of them. That is just my thoughts on the subject. I think Hillary is the most beatable out of all of them.

Barack Obama -
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
John Edwards - He is a triel lawyer and a member of the American Bar Association, probably the largest special interest groups in America (lawyers). I have a hard time trusting a guy who is so obviously hypocritical.
Someone who is an attorney by profession does not automatically deposit them into the category you suggest. You might as well say all lawyers are crooks. :p

Barack Obama - Say what you want about the guy, but at least he is consistent. You may not agree with all of his positions, but he can inspire and convince others of his stance. He is by far the most "presidential" of all the big three candates.
What do you mean the most, "presidential" of the big three? As in acts the part? I like Obama but he's too cool for my tastes....not much genuine emotion and he hasn't convinced me yet he knows enough for the job.

I'm an Independent......but, I definitely won't be voting Republican. :D Tonight, the only Repub I thought debated half way effectively knowledge-wise was Guilliani. I really dislike Romney. He's just another big money politician who won't change much in Washington....at least that's my gut instinct.
 

BUDDY

User of Aspercreme
Someone who is an attorney by profession does not automatically deposit them into the category you suggest. You might as well say all lawyers are crooks. :p

What do you mean the most, "presidential" of the big three? As in acts the part? I like Obama but he's too cool for my tastes....not much genuine emotion and he hasn't convinced me yet he knows enough for the job.

I'm an Independent......but, I definitely won't be voting Republican. :D Tonight, the only Repub I thought debated half way effectively knowledge-wise was Guilliani. I really dislike Romney. He's just another big money politician who won't change much in Washington....at least that's my gut instinct.
Well, he was an ambulance chaser. So, while I won't say that all lawyers are crooks, I will say that all amulance chasing lawyers show crook like tendencies. Is that fair?

By presidential, I mean in the way he communicates. While passionate and inspiring, he is also distinct and clear. The others are not IMHO.

Why not vote republican if there is one that you can agree with. The party doesn't make the man or woman. For example, if you knew nothing about party affiliation, would you ever guess that Guiliani and Thompson are from the same party?
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Who was strongest tonight?

Did you change your mind about any candidate?

I was quite impressed with John Edwards this time around. His passion for drop kicking special interest groups and lobbyists seems genuine. Still, I'm not sure that topic is of enough importance to Americans to gather much steam for himself toward a vote.

Hillary overall has the most experience. Do Americans want change so badly they'll overlook that attribute in favor of a lesser experienced candidate like Obama?

Did you gain any ground toward who to vote for?
Those were actually some pretty good debates. No silly videos or stupid questions from citizens, and I like the candidates being able to respond directly to each other.

On the republican side, I have to say Huckabee is beginning to impress me with his honesty and common sense. The others are frighteningly stuck in the idiocy of neo-con propaganda, parroting and praising George Bush; the most disastrous president in U.S. history. And they're mean-spirited about it, to boot. They still don't see the complete stupidity of the whole concept of "offensive defense" even after the United States has just made one of it's greatest and most costly blunders in history because of it. They're still parroting the Bush administration's lies about how the "surge is working" in Iraq when clearly it's not. They continue to claim that free markets are some sort of sacred and divine totum that will solve all of america's problems if we will just let the profiteers free to do whatever they want. They continue to completely ignore the health care crisis by proposing silly, ineffectual changes that would do basically nothing to significantly change the system as it is now. And they didn't really even talk about the economy, which they have driven into recession, thanks to their unfettered free market mentality. I was basically disgusted by them. They're hopelessly out of touch, and anyone who dared to express their concerns in the form of a new idea (like Ron Paul) got responded to with humiliating insults. It's the Bush nightmare all over again. Blind arrogance still reigns supreme in republican land. And I think that has a lot to do with why Iowa went for Huckabee. At least he knows how to be humble.

On the democratic side, I was a lot more impressed. At least they know how badly off course this country has gotten, and how desperately we need to change that course. I fear that none of the candidate have the experience or the strength to make those changes real. Hillary keeps saying that she is so experienced, but when she was asked to prove that claim, directly, all she could give as real evidence of taking on the special interests was what her husband did in office. But we aren't electing her husband. The truth is that SHE doesn't really have the big track record of taking on special interests that she wants us all to think she does. And I worry about that dishonesty.

On the other hand, neither do the other candidates, and I believe that those special interests lobbies are going to be extremely difficult to fight. They already own a lot of politicians in the Senate and Congress and those people are not going to just roll over and die. Barrack claims he can take them on through his gift for inspiring by-partisanship. But can he? Edwards claims that he's been fighting corporations for years, but that was in the courts. Does that experience really translate into politics? And Richardson is a governor. His job has been partly to court big business and to give them incentives to move into his state. I don't see that as any sort of experience at trust-busting.

The one thing I did hear that I liked, regarding this issue of lobby and trust-busting, was from Obama. He said that he understood the need to get the american people fired up about this, and that without them, no one would be able to make many real changes in government. And that is the truth. He also said that he believed he has the ability to speak to the american people in a way that would help convince them to join in this fight, and I believe that's also true. That comment made an impression on me.

So there were a couple of comments that stuck with me, and they both inclined me toward Obama. However, I appreciated the very strait-forward talk of Edwards, regarding the oppression of the poor by the wealthy. It's wonderful to finally see a politician who's willing to stand up in public and call the spade a spade. Yet that kind of talk will not get the job done.
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
On the republican side, I have to say Huckabee is beginning to impress me with his honesty and common sense. The others are frighteningly stuck in the idiocy of neo-con propaganda, parroting and praising George Bush; the most disastrous president in U.S. history. And they're mean-spirited about it, to boot. They still don't see the complete stupidity of the whole concept of "offensive defense" even after the United States has just made one of it's greatest and most costly blunders in history because of it. They're still parroting the Bush administration's lies about how the "surge is working" in Iraq when clearly it's not.
So true. In fact, while listening to the GOP candidates, I felt the nation will remain pretty much status quo if any of those contenders are elected. We can't afford for our international relations to sour further, special interests/lobbying will remain entrenched and big money will continue to rule. Notice also how global warming was not brought up? And, Ron Paul was just an embarrassment. Sheeesh.

On the democratic side, I was a lot more impressed. At least they know how badly off course this country has gotten, and how desperately we need to change that course. I fear that none of the candidate have the experience or the strength to make those changes real. Hillary keeps saying that she is so experienced, but when she was asked to prove that claim, directly, all she could give as real evidence of taking on the special interests was what her husband did in office. But we aren't electing her husband. The truth is that SHE doesn't really have the big track record of taking on special interests that she wants us all to think she does. And I worry about that dishonesty.
Do you think Americans are interested in the whole special interests issue though? Do they even know what it's all about? Hillary has some good health care experience, people are more interested in that aspect I believe.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Do you think Americans are interested in the whole special interests issue though? Do they even know what it's all about? Hillary has some good health care experience, people are more interested in that aspect I believe.
That's where Obama's comment about being able to talk to the american people made sense to me. The answer is that no, most people do not yet fully understand or appreciate the strangle-hold that the wealthy corporations currently have on our government, or the terrible harm they are doing to EVERY CITIZEN as a result. But the current recession is the direct result of it, and THAT is sinking into the american consciousness very quickly. And it will be sinking in even quicker as things get worse, and they are going to get worse. We haven't yet even begun to pay for the terrible waste, incompetence, and toadying of the Bush administration. Things are going to get worse, and the next president needs to be able to capture the fear and anger that results and channel it into a siren call for REAL political change. I think Obama is the best orator of the pack, and I also think he recognizes the necessity for doing so.

Hillary has been taking the lobbyists money, just as her husband did, yet she claims that she's not in their pockets. This just doesn't strike me as honest. Those people don't throw money around without some expectation of making a profitable return.
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
I think Obama is the best orator of the pack, and I also think he recognizes the necessity for doing so.
I'm still hesitatingly optimistic about Obama. I want to believe his platform but am reluctant to trust any politician.

Hillary has been taking the lobbyists money, just as her husband did, yet she claims that she's not in their pockets. This just doesn't strike me as honest. Those people don't throw money around without some expectation of making a profitable return.
What else do you know about that issue and Hillary?

Any other thoughts on Edwards?
 

PureX

Veteran Member
What else do you know about that issue and Hillary?
Bill Clinton set a record when he was in office for taking in corporate campaign money. (Bush has since broken that record.) And the corporations are now throwing their money at Hillary, and she's taking it. Obama is not, and neither is Edwards. Those corporate contributions show us who the corporate interests think will win, and who they hope will win. They would prefer a republican, because the republicans tend to do whatever they want. But if they can't get a republican in office, and they probably will not be able to, this time, then they throw their money at whatever democrat they think will win, so that they can have access to them after they're elected. It's basically bribe money, for special and easy access. When a candidate refuses to take the money, they are not then beholding to the donors to give them special access if they win the job. Hillary, however, has taken their money, and they will expect special access in return.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Barrack Obama has matched her in campaign contributions, yet most of his money came from individual voters who sent in small amounts of money to support him. That says a lot about who is backing him, and who he will be beholding to if he's elected. If Hillary did NOT take corporate money, she wouldn't have so much money to campaign with, because she can't raise it from the rank and file like Barrack can.
Any other thoughts on Edwards?
He claims he wants to fight the influence of the corporation on government, and people are responding to this message. That's good, but is he really able to do that if he gets elected? That's the real question for all of the democrats. He has a record of suing corporations and winning settlements as a trial lawyer, but how does that translate into fighting them as a politician? The answer is we don't know.

To me, the real question is: who do I believe will be willing and able to take on corporate influence for real? Obama has a long history of working to better the lives of regular people. He has worked in and around Chicago for years starting and running organizations that help people at the grass roots level. This tells me about his commitment. I believe it's real. He also tends to appeal to democrats, independents, and even some republicans because he does not use a lot of anti-republican rhetoric. He has a conservative personality and demeanor that makes it easy for him to get along with republicans, and we need a president who can overcome partisanship if we want any hope of making any real changes. Hillary antagonizes the republicans in a BIG way, and I don't believe they will work with her willingly. Edwards has taken such a strong anti-corporate line that he may find it difficult to work with the republicans as well. The fact that he was a trial lawyer against business tends to really stir up their animosity.

On the other hand, Bill and Hillary working together, could be a powerful force in Washington, in spite of all the republican hatred for them. I personally, however, think the nation would be better off with less partisanship. It's time to put away all this silly bickering, if that's possible, and start fixing the mess we've gotten ourselves into.
 

Ozzie

Well-Known Member
Who was strongest tonight?

Did you change your mind about any candidate?

I was quite impressed with John Edwards this time around. His passion for drop kicking special interest groups and lobbyists seems genuine. Still, I'm not sure that topic is of enough importance to Americans to gather much steam for himself toward a vote.

Hillary overall has the most experience. Do Americans want change so badly they'll overlook that attribute in favor of a lesser experienced candidate like Obama?

Did you gain any ground toward who to vote for?
I thought a monkey might be a perfectly acceptable candidate tonight.

Actually, how important is diffentiating between candidates based on policy?
 

Ozzie

Well-Known Member
Bill Clinton set a record when he was in office for taking in corporate campaign money. (Bush has since broken that record.) And the corporations are now throwing their money at Hillary, and she's taking it. Obama is not, and neither is Edwards. Those corporate contributions show us who the corporate interests think will win, and who they hope will win. They would prefer a republican, because the republicans tend to do whatever they want. But if they can't get a republican in office, and they probably will not be able to, this time, then they throw their money at whatever democrat they think will win, so that they can have access to them after they're elected. It's basically bribe money, for special and easy access. When a candidate refuses to take the money, they are not then beholding to the donors to give them special access if they win the job. Hillary, however, has taken their money, and they will expect special access in return.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Barrack Obama has matched her in campaign contributions, yet most of his money came from individual voters who sent in small amounts of money to support him. That says a lot about who is backing him, and who he will be beholding to if he's elected. If Hillary did NOT take corporate money, she wouldn't have so much money to campaign with, because she can't raise it from the rank and file like Barrack can.
He claims he wants to fight the influence of the corporation on government, and people are responding to this message. That's good, but is he really able to do that if he gets elected? That's the real question for all of the democrats. He has a record of suing corporations and winning settlements as a trial lawyer, but how does that translate into fighting them as a politician? The answer is we don't know.

To me, the real question is: who do I believe will be willing and able to take on corporate influence for real? Obama has a long history of working to better the lives of regular people. He has worked in and around Chicago for years starting and running organizations that help people at the grass roots level. This tells me about his commitment. I believe it's real. He also tends to appeal to democrats, independents, and even some republicans because he does not use a lot of anti-republican rhetoric. He has a conservative personality and demeanor that makes it easy for him to get along with republicans, and we need a president who can overcome partisanship if we want any hope of making any real changes. Hillary antagonizes the republicans in a BIG way, and I don't believe they will work with her willingly. Edwards has taken such a strong anti-corporate line that he may find it difficult to work with the republicans as well. The fact that he was a trial lawyer against business tends to really stir up their animosity.

On the other hand, Bill and Hillary working together, could be a powerful force in Washington, in spite of all the republican hatred for them. I personally, however, think the nation would be better off with less partisanship. It's time to put away all this silly bickering, if that's possible, and start fixing the mess we've gotten ourselves into.
Nice points Purex. I hope that voters accidentally select a President that is the best candidate for leadership of the real world and its problems. I think the US has to develop a real skill to delegate responsibilty in order to solve real world problems.
 

Francine

Well-Known Member
Nice points Purex. I hope that voters accidentally select a President that is the best candidate for leadership of the real world and its problems. I think the US has to develop a real skill to delegate responsibilty in order to solve real world problems.

It is arrogant to assume that the US has any responsibility to delegate. Much better to approach the table with humility and listen to other nations attentively.
 
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