The dividing line between faith and religion

I have been doing a lot of thinking about the differences between faith and religion. I thought of something I never really thought about on a Christian forum I post at. They were talking about Catholics and Protestants and whether it was the same or not. I said that they were the same faith but a different religion. I am still wondering if what I wrote was really true or not.
To me, faith is a simple belief in God. Religion is all the rules and commands that go with it. If that is true, then it would be rare to have faith without religion (I have known a couple of people who have faith but no religion).
Do you think one can have faith without religion, or if someone can have religion without faith.
I sometimes wonder if religion and faith are the same or if they are different from each other.
Any comments on this are welcome.

Dear Christine:

I adhere to Christianity without the religion. For a good idea of what this means, go here:
Welcome to PTM !

Plain Truth Ministries proclaims authentic Christianity without the religion.
Our work is Christ-centered, based on God's amazing grace,
giving hope to those burned out by legalistic religion.

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I also believe there are many misconceptions out there about the concept of faith.

In the days of Christ, the idea of FAITH as a belief without rational reason was absurd. As it should be, but isn't, now. The Bible tells us "let us reason together" - but says nothing about trusting that something is real or believable without a good reason to do so.

I have faith in my husband, for example, because he has proven himself to be trust - worthy, reliable. I have basic faith in airline pilots, doctors, police officers within reason.

My faith in God is the same. God has proven himself to me: A. He exists and B. He is worthy of my trust in Him. To believe in God without reason is irrational, imho, as to believe in anything without evidence or beyond logic is irrational.

A faith unexamined is not worthy to be called faith! The Bible tells us "But sanctify the Lord God[a] in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you". Christ provided evidence of his divinity, the Old Testament provided prophecy that was fulfilled, the apostles provide first hand accounts - reliable testimony that we may believe:

JN 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas,[d] because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

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Anyway to answer your question: I see Christianity, the true following of Christ, as a vertical relationship (God-centered), and religion as a horizontal relationship (human-centered).

Jesus Christ established a body of believers united to him like nothing else in existence, through the power of grace and with the Holy Spirit, he dwells within each believer. God is with us - and within us. We have no need of human institutions though I believe we need to gather together, to make worship public, to support each other through the community of faith, so in that way we need "religion".

The trick is to insure that our particular community of believers does not fall into the trap of legalism, and if it does it should be corrected or abandoned.

Isaiah 1:18

18 “ Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the LORD

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Given your definition of religion, yes one can have faith without religion... one can also be a member of a religion without the faith... though they only fool themselves...

Fluffy,
So Christianity w/o "religion" is Evangelical Protestanism?

edit:

Do you think one can have faith without religion

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If you define religion as "rules and commands" one cannot have a faith in the Christian God without religion.

BTW, would you mind letting me know what the forum you are referring to is?

Religion is organized faith....PTM is as much religion as any other.
It may have thrown out many of the trappings of inherited religions...
but what is left is still a religion based around faith in the teachings of Jesus.

You can decide to rename the animal known as dog as Bow wow. but in any language or description it is still a Dog.
If you change the name of "organised faith" to some thing else it is still a religion.

Mister Emu said:

one can also be a member of a religion without the faith... though they only fool themselves...
If you define religion as "rules and commands" one cannot have a faith in the Christian God without religion.

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How so? "Without faith" (as per the OP) would imply that they have no illusions about their role as simply a participant in "going through the motions" of religion. In what way are they fooling themselves?

You can have faith without religion, but your faith will remain completely based on your experience alone if you do not allow religion to influence your beliefs. Some would say this is a good thing, but in my experience it is very difficult to mature your faith by your own will. Sure, you can study the Bible on your own and try to evangelize on your own, but you will find that it is very difficult to do.

The Holy Spirit is the gift from God that allows us to accomplish what we normally could not on our own, like being able to walk through the fires of life. However, human nature tends to weaken the Spirit and it becomes easy to be distracted by the ways of the world.

Enter religion: REAL church should be about encouraging you and your faith, maturing your understanding of your own purpose and the world around you, and finding fellowship with others. If you do not have religion, you are in danger of creating a false one of your own without even knowing it.

tomspug said:

You can have faith without religion, but your faith will remain completely based on your experience alone if you do not allow religion to influence your beliefs.

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On the contrary, it is written (Ephesians 2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Paul said faith is not of ourselves but is the gift of God. That means it is not based on our experience, but is a divine imparting of theological truth.

they just have different methods of obtaining salvation, men are a bit like that they tend to squabble about whos in charge

Francine said:

On the contrary, it is written (Ephesians 2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Paul said faith is not of ourselves but is the gift of God. That means it is not based on our experience, but is a divine imparting of theological truth.

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So when I have faith in the fact that it will rain tonight, it's because God made me have it instead of the cloudy day after 20 days of no rain?

Bouncing Ball said:

So when I have faith in the fact that it will rain tonight, it's because God made me have it instead of the cloudy day after 20 days of no rain?

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That it will rain tonight is not a fact, because you cannot observe future phenomena.

Francine said:

That it will rain tonight is not a fact, because you cannot observe future phenomena.

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So what faith is a fact then?
Wouldn't that take away the meaning of the word faith?

Bouncing Ball said:

So what faith is a fact then?

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The fact that Christ rose from the dead, for example, attested by the empty tomb and reliable eyewitnesses such as Peter.

Faith and religion are, ultimately, inseparable, since faith is part of the human experience, and human beings are social creatures. Faith can't be practiced in a vaccuum, since, at some point, we have to interact with each other. How I respond to my faith will determine, at least in part, how I respond to others. That interaction will influence the relationship in some way. Religion provides a normative social vehicle for human interaction, based upon an assumption of certain beliefs.

PTM is just another religious division.

Faith has no divisions. It recognizes the truth of ALL the religions and finds what is common rather than what is divisive.

If it creates division it is not of God. If it creates unity it is of God.

Regards,

Scott

ChristineES said:

I have been doing a lot of thinking about the differences between faith and religion. I thought of something I never really thought about on a Christian forum I post at. They were talking about Catholics and Protestants and whether it was the same or not. I said that they were the same faith but a different religion. I am still wondering if what I wrote was really true or not.
To me, faith is a simple belief in God. Religion is all the rules and commands that go with it. If that is true, then it would be rare to have faith without religion (I have known a couple of people who have faith but no religion).
Do you think one can have faith without religion, or if someone can have religion without faith.
I sometimes wonder if religion and faith are the same or if they are different from each other.
Any comments on this are welcome.

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By your definition then I have faith and some kind of religion but I don't see it that way.

My faith in God's existence is absolute and unwavering but I shun all religion because they all misrepresent God as an immature human-like tyrant. I avoid joining groups because I will not give anyone power over me and they tend to separate and divide people as much, and sometimes more, as they create a sense of belonging.

If morality is a religion then I have formed my own based upon my life experiences. I do not follow the "Golden Rule" because the earth is not set up for it. I treat others as they deserve to be treated. You don't pet wild lions when they attack you.

As for the Catholic/Protestant debate, it's like two first grade children wasting time criticizing each other when neither has any idea what Einstein really said.

ChristineES said:

I have been doing a lot of thinking about the differences between faith and religion. I thought of something I never really thought about on a Christian forum I post at. They were talking about Catholics and Protestants and whether it was the same or not. I said that they were the same faith but a different religion. I am still wondering if what I wrote was really true or not.
To me, faith is a simple belief in God. Religion is all the rules and commands that go with it. If that is true, then it would be rare to have faith without religion (I have known a couple of people who have faith but no religion).
Do you think one can have faith without religion, or if someone can have religion without faith.
I sometimes wonder if religion and faith are the same or if they are different from each other.
Any comments on this are welcome.

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You can have a religion about Jesus with all its rules and formalities, or you can have the religion of Jesus, which focuses on the relationship between man and God without all the rules and formalities. I choose the latter.

I think faith is a belief that can not be proven, about anything it doesn't have to be God, gods Santa it could be unicorns, monsters or people on Mars. Faith simply means I believe even if there is no evidence to support my belief or the evidence is contradictory to my belief. Religion on the other hand is more of a formal practice of a discipline. You could loosely say I am religious however I lack faith in anything as my religion requires no faith or belief in anything that is in conflict with the evidence. I hope that helps???

Somkid said:

Faith simply means I believe even if there is no evidence to support my belief or the evidence is contradictory to my belief.

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"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

That means that faith itself is (to those who possess it) evidence of the God who grants firm belief in things which can only be grasped by divine revelation.

Francine said:

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

That means that faith itself is (to those who possess it) evidence of the God who grants firm belief in things which can only be grasped by divine revelation.

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Merriam Webster has this to say about faith:

2 a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete trust3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>

I agree 100% and don't see how it can be turned to mean anything else. Notice it is NOT evidence of anything as the definition points out "no proof".