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Theology and intersex.

gnomon

gnomon

Well-Known Member
Anyone know their religions modern theological view on intersex?

Considering that marriage, stem cell and abortion have all been considered why not intersex? Why not gonadal dysgenesis, congenital adrenal hyperplasia, mosaicism, etc?

I know there are certain religious beliefs, and quite old ones as well, that actually considered hermaphroditism as just a different gender. However, as far as I know there is no recorded case of a true human hermaphrodite. Actually, the term hermaphrodite is no longer used medically as far as I know.

When the biological sciences are showing us that the male/female binary view may no longer be as sound as we once believed how are modern religious views considering this? Ignoring it?

edit: I won't bite!
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I did a quick Google search, and every Christian site I came across assumed a binary male/female nature to sexuality. If they acknowledged that there was a dilemma at all, it was with regard to determining which gender an intersex child was "more" like so that the way they would be raised and medical interventions could be chosen (but all assumed that one gender or the other would be definitively chosen - none assumed any sort of middle ground). The few that actually gave any sort of religious or scriptural support for this idea cited Genesis 5:2 - "He created them male and female".

In my personal opinion, I don't see how creating a single individual both "male and female" goes against Genesis 5:2.

I did a quick look through the index of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and nothing applicable jumped out at me (they did cite the same verse of Genesis... though it seemed to be more directed at homosexuality than at intersexuality).
 
Rowenn

Rowenn

Member
I'm (I have) my own religion to a certain extent, and I know that I am open to people of all genders... So, I think my "Higher Power" would be as well (though I don't believe that a supreme being would have care for such things. Perhaps it's simply a form of apathy?)
 
gnomon

gnomon

Well-Known Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
I did a quick Google search, and every Christian site I came across assumed a binary male/female nature to sexuality. If they acknowledged that there was a dilemma at all, it was with regard to determining which gender an intersex child was "more" like so that the way they would be raised and medical interventions could be chosen (but all assumed that one gender or the other would be definitively chosen - none assumed any sort of middle ground). The few that actually gave any sort of religious or scriptural support for this idea cited Genesis 5:2 - "He created them male and female".

In my personal opinion, I don't see how creating a single individual both "male and female" goes against Genesis 5:2.

I did a quick look through the index of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and nothing applicable jumped out at me (they did cite the same verse of Genesis... though it seemed to be more directed at homosexuality than at intersexuality).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply.

I was truly hoping by now that at least someone could provide some information. At least Victor in another thread tried to find some information as well.

I just find it odd that for those who hold such strong, theological positions on homosexuality cannot find anything, or just don't care, about this as well.
 
Mike182

Mike182

Flaming Queer
i'm not at all sure how to answer this from a Pagan perspective. we are very liberal with regards to homosexuality, but i don't know of any writers in the Pagan field to have touched upon this subject, and i myself have not given any thought to it.
 
S

Somkid

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what you mean by "intersex" but if you mean same sex relationships they are perfectly acceptable, here in Thailand people are openly gay with no problems or harassment as are cross dressing, trans gender and the like.

Marriage is not a "sacrament" nor is it a religious thing many people simply live together and call each other husband and wife.

Stem cell research is legal as is stem cell treatment which they are having great success with.

Abortion however is only legal in certain situations but not the norm primarily because most doctors find it unethical and do not encourage it as a form of birth control

I don't know if that answers your question or not but we are accepting of almost anything.
 
gnomon

gnomon

Well-Known Member
Willamena said:
Thanks for the information.
*bump*
Click to expand...

No problem.

I'm still bouncing around websites trying to find out some more information on the major religious beliefs on this but cannot find much. Several forums and blogs on people within those religions asking the same question but no consensus on the Christian, Islamic, Jewish...most religions.
 
gnomon

gnomon

Well-Known Member
gnomon said:
Anyone know their religions modern theological view on intersex?

Considering that marriage, stem cell and abortion have all been considered why not intersex? Why not gonadal dysgenesis, congenital adrenal hyperplasia, mosaicism, etc?

I know there are certain religious beliefs, and quite old ones as well, that actually considered hermaphroditism as just a different gender. However, as far as I know there is no recorded case of a true human hermaphrodite. Actually, the term hermaphrodite is no longer used medically as far as I know.

When the biological sciences are showing us that the male/female binary view may no longer be as sound as we once believed how are modern religious views considering this? Ignoring it?

edit: I won't bite!
Click to expand...

I'll tackle this myself.

From a Christian perspective, and those which share a similar concept, the idea of the Fall would be an explanation for how, when God created them male and female, we now see that humans no longer develop as such a perfect creation.

Would that be a correct view? It's short but even when I was among the Baptists I never really accepted this idea of the Fall popular among Christians and New Age enthusiasts.

Besides, what would that imply about those individuals? Would they be less than perfect? Why should they suffer so in God's eyes for something that is no choice of their own?

I don't know enough about the Hindu religion's concept of human creation. However, I think this is a valid question for those who follow the "Abrahamic" paths.
 
Draka

Draka

Wonder Woman
I don't believe that there is any real "stance" held by Pagans in general about intersex. I'm sure that doesn't help you though. :p

As far as I know though, there are hermaphrodites and cases of it around. Since I happen to know one I'm pretty sure of this.
 
gnomon

gnomon

Well-Known Member
Draka said:
I don't believe that there is any real "stance" held by Pagans in general about intersex. I'm sure that doesn't help you though. :p

As far as I know though, there are hermaphrodites and cases of it around. Since I happen to know one I'm pretty sure of this.
Click to expand...

Aye. I wasn't expecting much from Pagans. Not saying that in a bad way. I just don't know of any theological view expressing a perfect creation of male/female among modern paganism. I might be wrong but male and female tend to be more symbolic in importance rather than the actual biological definition.

I would be skeptical of the hermaphrodite claim. A human hermaphrodite would have to have functional testes and ovaries. I'm thinking of the mythological hermaphrodite. However, if you are talking about gonadal mosaicism, which is called true hermaphroditism then I definitely agree.

Here is an interesting story.

BORN TRUE HERMAPHRODITE - Pictorial Profile
 
Draka

Draka

Wonder Woman
gnomon said:
Aye. I wasn't expecting much from Pagans. Not saying that in a bad way. I just don't know of any theological view expressing a perfect creation of male/female among modern paganism. I might be wrong but male and female tend to be more symbolic in importance rather than the actual biological definition.

I would be skeptical of the hermaphrodite claim. A human hermaphrodite would have to have functional testes and ovaries. I'm thinking of the mythological hermaphrodite. However, if you are talking about gonadal mosaicism, which is called true hermaphroditism then I definitely agree.

Here is an interesting story.

BORN TRUE HERMAPHRODITE - Pictorial Profile
Click to expand...

Well, I don't know what you would want to call it. I only know what she has shared with me. She has had children of her own. Given birth to them. She definitely goes as a female. BUT she has a penis, which does become erect when aroused and functions fully as far as she has told me. It's not like I asked her about her testes you know? Though she did comment once that she could get another woman pregnant. I haven't exactly examined her, but her husband maintains that she is telling the truth as well.

She also has a brother that was born the same way, but he identifies male.
 
gnomon

gnomon

Well-Known Member
Draka said:
Well, I don't know what you would want to call it. I only know what she has shared with me. She has had children of her own. Given birth to them. She definitely goes as a female. BUT she has a penis, which does become erect when aroused and functions fully as far as she has told me. It's not like I asked her about her testes you know? Though she did comment once that she could get another woman pregnant. I haven't exactly examined her, but her husband maintains that she is telling the truth as well.

She also has a brother that was born the same way, but he identifies male.
Click to expand...

I'm not arguing. Most stories I've read do not mention any account of someone who has two functioning sex traits. I stand corrected.:sorry1:

And yes, it might not be the best idea to ask her. Even more so to examine her. I imagine that would be very awkward.
 
Draka

Draka

Wonder Woman
gnomon said:
And yes, it might not be the best idea to ask her. Even more so to examine her. I imagine that would be very awkward.
Click to expand...


Oh, ya think? :p

I just kind of figure than when an old friend of mine decides to come out and tell me something along those lines, in all confidence, then I'm not about to ask her to "present them" you know? ;)
 
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