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Transcendent Truth

atomic47

Member
Yeah, but at one time we didn't know where the sun went at night either. It's a problem that can be solved. How? I'm not sure. That's why it's great to have 6.5 billion minds and viewpoints here, we'll eventually figure it out, or die trying.
 

Ozzie

Well-Known Member
Is a transcendent foundation for truth, as is found in religions, necessary for peace?

Even if we can't agree on what that truth is, is it important that we have faith in a good that is higher than any human institution can be?
No it is important that we recognise that truth is whatever we determine it to be collectively.

If there is no good based upon a Transcendent Absolute, does that mean that the highest good is determined by power, rather than by truth?
Absolutely. Collective will of the people expressed as a political and tangible, rather than (superfluous) "transcendent" voice.
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
You see the cultural differences as mainly religious differences?
To a large degree. At this point in time religion isn't a unifying force and I'm not sure it ever can be. I mean, the differences are enormous when you think about it. For example, have you ever heard of Cargo Cults? Not that these are violent religions but they do contribute to communication and moral difficulties with the Western world for sure.

Cargo cult - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

lunamoth

Will to love
No it is important that we recognise that truth is whatever we determine it to be collectively.

Absolutely. Collective will of the people expressed as a political and tangible, rather than (superfluous) "transcendent" voice.

Interesting answer Oz. (The System says I don't have more furbals to give out tonight :sad4:)

I was not referring to a transcendent voice, but faith in a transcendent 'good.' A good not based on world powers.

You see the collective will of the people as the highest good? Won't there always be some that don't agree?
 

atomic47

Member
And I doubt we ever will.

To many people think that their transcendent truth is better/superior to/etc than any transcendent truth that is different from theirs.

Unfortunately, this is probably the reality of the world. But nothing is forever, and I do feel we can change.
 

lunamoth

Will to love
To a large degree. At this point in time religion isn't a unifying force and I'm not sure it ever can be. I mean, the differences are enormous when you think about it. For example, have you ever heard of Cargo Cults? Not that these are violent religions but they do contribute to communication and moral difficulties with the Western world for sure.

Cargo cult - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well, I do agree with you there. (did not check out your link yet) Religions don't serve to unify, but more to diversify. However, we can still find some things religions often have in common. One point in the essay above is that the diversity is good...as long as you realize that you can't resort to violence to make your truth ascendent.
 

lunamoth

Will to love
To many people think that their transcendent truth is better/superior to/etc than any transcendent truth that is different from theirs.

Yes, that's the point of a transcendent truth. You think it's right and you won't give it up. But, I don't think that necessarily leads to violence and social unrest. Disagreement, struggle to be in relationship with others who do not have the same truth, yes. But not violence. That's the point of of the essay above.
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
However, we can still find some things religions often have in common. One point in the essay above is that the diversity is good...as long as you realize that you can't resort to violence to make your truth ascendent.
This is all well intentioned if the whole of your audience is rational and peace loving. Not such an easy group to find in reality.
 

lunamoth

Will to love
Yes. Agreed for sure. :yes: But, I love you! :D It's a start!
You are such a sweetie. :hug: Thank you for always making my threads interesting.

I think the formula of reason + compassion is a pretty good one.

I don't like the idea of might makes right. :no: That's the danger of an ethic based only upon reason.
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
I don't like the idea of might makes right. :no: That's the danger of an ethic based only upon reason.
Right. And one person's rationality is another person's extreme fundamentalism.

I love my husband very much but every once in a great while I don't understand him no matter how hard I try. Can you imagine a whole world of people who aren't emotionally invested in each other trying to agree on what's just? Or, the worldly unanimous way to go about sustaining peace?

Look at the idiocy in Darfur. We see that situation as completely irrational.....yet to those doing the slaughtering, they obviously disagree, at least for now.
 

Ozzie

Well-Known Member
Interesting...had never heard of this before.

I wonder, if we were visited by space aliens with advanced technology if we'd all form a cargo cult based upon the aliens.
I wonder if the aliens would leave us with "transcendent truth" in the cargo.

From the perspective of either party, the other would resemble a "ship of fools" devoid of transcendent truth (premised on the belief one can possess such a thing).
Poor fools, both of them.
 
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