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The Colorado killings

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
Most of us have heard what has happened there this last weekend, and excuse me if this has been discussed. An ARMED security guard at the church shot the wacco, and he then killed himself... Since when do churches have ARMED security guards? It was a "blessing" that they did, but I have never been to a church with ARMED guards. Have any of you ever been to a church with ARMED guards? Heard of any such church?
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Most of us have heard what has happened there this last weekend, and excuse me if this has been discussed. An ARMED security guard at the church shot the wacco, and he then killed himself... Since when do churches have ARMED security guards? It was a "blessing" that they did, but I have never been to a church with ARMED guards. Have any of you ever been to a church with ARMED guards? Heard of any such church?

Jeff, I don't think that the security gaurd was armed.

Police seek link in Colorado attacks - USATODAY.com
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
It appears she was and that they put her in place when they heard about the other shootings. Good plan!

Oh, I see. I read this as unarmed:

Police seek link in Colorado attacks - USATODAY.com
When the shots were fired "she rushed toward the attacker and took him down in the hallway," he said.

The attacker never got more than 50 feet inside the building.
"She probably saved over 100 lives," Boyd said.

He described her as a highly trained volunteer member of the church with a law enforcement background whose role was to provide security.He said she was not wearing a uniform and is licensed to carry a gun.

Here's the statement from the church:
http://www.newlifechurch.org/db_images2/12-10-9am.pdf
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
According to CNN, the security guard fired and hit him with at least 3 rounds. But Pete, this brings up another question. If you suspect that a deranged mad man might show up and start killing people, why would you hold service, putting innocent people in arms way? At least inform the members. I'm sure the father that got shot and lost his two daughters would have liked that opportunity to have had that option of whether to come to church of not.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
If you suspect that a deranged mad man might show up and start killing people, why would you hold service, putting innocent people in arms way? At least inform the members. I'm sure the father that got shot and lost his two daughters would have liked that opportunity to have had that option of whether to come to church of not.
This assumes that they weren't told and that they did not make an informed opinion.
 

Smoke

Done here.
Most of us have heard what has happened there this last weekend, and excuse me if this has been discussed. An ARMED security guard at the church shot the wacco, and he then killed himself... Since when do churches have ARMED security guards? It was a "blessing" that they did, but I have never been to a church with ARMED guards. Have any of you ever been to a church with ARMED guards? Heard of any such church?
No. At my parents' church they have member patrolling the parking lot during services to deter vandals and thieves, but they're not armed.

What's really interesting is that they not only have armed guards at that church, but the minister, or one of the ministers, said the woman in question usually served as his personal security guard, but was sent out to keep an eye on things because they were worried about the possibility of violence.

It strikes me more than a little strange when these men of god feel the need for armed personal security. I mean, to live is Christ, and to die is gain, right? And they have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, don't they? Wouldn't Jesus warn them of any danger, unless it was his will to call them to the sweet by and by?

A cynical person -- not a wide-eyed innocent like myself, but a cynical person -- could almost get the idea they don't believe what they're preaching.
 

lunamoth

Will to love
What a waste and a shame. Four young people have been brutally killed. Senseless violence is senseless violence. It can't be anticipated or stopped, unless of course you'd like a lot more of your civil liberties taken away, and even then it is impossible to stop the psychotic loner from acting in such an unpredictable way. I think this conversation is missing the boat. It's not about religion, the religious, God. It's about how fragile and vulnerable we all are, and how we let each other down. Why are the victims here overlooked as compared to say the school or mall shootings? I pray for peace, strength, and support for these families as they mourn their dead children.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
No. At my parents' church they have member patrolling the parking lot during services to deter vandals and thieves, but they're not armed.

What's really interesting is that they not only have armed guards at that church, but the minister, or one of the ministers, said the woman in question usually served as his personal security guard, but was sent out to keep an eye on things because they were worried about the possibility of violence.

It strikes me more than a little strange when these men of god feel the need for armed personal security. I mean, to live is Christ, and to die is gain, right? And they have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, don't they? Wouldn't Jesus warn them of any danger, unless it was his will to call them to the sweet by and by?

A cynical person -- not a wide-eyed innocent like myself, but a cynical person -- could almost get the idea they don't believe what they're preaching.

Great post. Anybody dare to want to answer?
 

Hope

Princesinha
What's really interesting is that they not only have armed guards at that church, but the minister, or one of the ministers, said the woman in question usually served as his personal security guard, but was sent out to keep an eye on things because they were worried about the possibility of violence.

It strikes me more than a little strange when these men of god feel the need for armed personal security. I mean, to live is Christ, and to die is gain, right? And they have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, don't they? Wouldn't Jesus warn them of any danger, unless it was his will to call them to the sweet by and by?

A cynical person -- not a wide-eyed innocent like myself, but a cynical person -- could almost get the idea they don't believe what they're preaching.

You make an interesting, and very good, point. Sadly, I think here in the US Christians, by and large, have no concept of what real faith is, because we live such lives of ease. I wonder myself, quite often, how I would react if I lived in another country where I would daily face the possibility of death or torture for my beliefs. That kind of pressure really reveals what kind of faith one possesses. So I get what you're saying.

On the other hand, while "to live is Christ, and to die is gain" is certainly true, Jesus also calls us to be "wise as serpents, and innocent as doves." Meaning, we shouldn't try to be "super spiritual" at the expense of forsaking all common sense and wisdom. God gave us brains for a reason, and if He provides a means of protection (such as security guards), then to flippantly dismiss such protection is to make oneself essentially a martyr at best, or suicidal at worst.
 

Hope

Princesinha
Just to continue with some thoughts on this tragedy.....I took special interest in it because of where the gunman first struck, before going to the church----at a Youth With A Mission (YWAM) base.

I am a former YWAMer (pronounced as "why-wammer"----it's what all those affiliated with the organization call themselves). Anyhooo....it's a great organization, that operates worldwide, and as far as I know, this is the first time anything like this has ever happened on one of their bases.

According to the reports I read, the YWAM base claims this young man did not finish his training course because of health problems. Knowing the organization's strict standards and policies, I'd venture to guess there is more to the story than that. More than likely, there were behavioral issues as well. It would seem to me this would explain the young man's bitterness and anger more. But I know YWAM is very discreet about all their personal dealings with staff and students, so it doesn't surprise me they would keep their side of the story to a minimum.

It's just so sad it had to end the way it did.
 
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