The divine female

oracle said:

First I was born and raised Christian, but after seeing a lot of hyprocrasy and inconsistency as I grew up in the church, I really don't care what approach the majority of Christians would take. The secrets of the kingdom of heaven (i.e. solid food) were kept from the majority and only given to those spiritually qualified. It's not just my opinion, and it's also from a lot of research. The threefold nature of man was commonly known in early Christianity, (was taught by Origen who was an early church father), that being body, mind (or soul), and spirit. In the case which you propose, yes it can mean the trinity, in fact I would say it does, but it is also represented as being twofold, with the mind in bewteen two dual natures, that which is the flesh and the spirit. The "trinity" is a hidden pattern throughout the bible, for example the three temptations of Jesus have more symbolical and spiritual significance than Chrisitian realize, and I pity the fact that few christians know the underlying meaning, that the three temptations refers to body, mind, and spirit (the Gospel of John has the correct chronological order, Mathew does not). Much of the bible contains allegory which should never be interpreted as being literal. Because of this, much damage has been inflicted, and the institutionalized modern christianity of today resembles nothing like the mystical christianity in it's orginal form. It relied on much symbolism to keep truth hidden from the carnally minded because they were considered as unworthy of knowing the truth.
It was the pharisees, the sadacees, and the priests of Jesus's time who believed that the Torah was completely literal, (hiding the keys of knowledge), who were legalistic and carnally minded, thinking about laws which are external which mean nothing in God's eyes. We have much of the same people in these modern times. I do not worship God is flesh, I worship God in spirit. The people are the church, not built of wood or stone, and God is immanent, which manifests itself in all things, is within and existant in everything, God is this unified connection, God is wholeness and such is the kingdom of heaven. To believe in a literal garden is superficial knowing of what it truely means, you are only touching the surface, but underneath the surface is a depth that makes such superficial understanding rediculously obsolete.

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body soul spirit.... father son mother...kether chockmah binah..."jehova" christ H Spirit

body (father the creator).....son (soul the mediator between spirit and body) Spirit (higher body)......


underneath the surface...indeed...a lamp with a flame upon it to illuminate the way.....and ....well until recently the priest wouldnt even face his congration.....God has always been "hidden" from the massess...sadly...

good points though...must go

In referance to the twofold, one is receptive (feminine), and one is projective (masculine). In this reality, the father is present but the mother hidden and vice versa in the spiritual reality. If you read the Gospel of Thomas and other non-canonical books, if you take this notion into mind you will understand what he is talking about in referance to male and female. For example, "when a female makes herself male" should not be taken literally because it is symbolic. He is not literally talking about gender. There is a string or a coding of feminine and masculine symbols even in the canon. For example bread (masculine) and wine(feminine). They have symbolical meaning, and in a non-canonical gospel it mentioned that Jesus mingled the bread with the wine, which symbolized wholeness. Christ is the mind, which incarnates as the word. Christ is the vine in between the roots and the branches, Christ is the mediator. Father, Christ, and Holy spirit. Body, mind, and spirit, the trinity within man.

Reading the idea that some of you have presented that Adam and Eve are not two historical characters but a story created to teach some lesson, reminds me of Job's comment concerning his three so-called friends: "No doubt you are the people, and wisdom will die with you" (Job 12:2) The Apostles Paul it appears was void of your great wisdom. He though these were real people. (cf. 2 Corinthians 11:3; I Timothy 2:13; Romans 5:14; I Corinthians 15:22) I can hardly wait to hear the next great revelation that comes from you. Let us throw away our Bibles.
Prosecutor

"Let us throw away our Bibles."

Finally someone understands.

Master Vigil said:

"Let us throw away our Bibles."

Finally someone understands.

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:biglaugh: :biglaugh:

prosecutor what do you mean by throw away your bible?.....are implying that by seeing the bible in a NONE literal ight this means we effectively are rendering it useless?...I put it to you...did Aesop really see a crow and a fox fight over cheese?

hoomer:

My point you seem to miss is that historical characters must be assumed to be real unless the evidence warrents a different conclusion. To say "Adam and Eve" were not real people is without any proof to the contrary. If you wish to argue the point, please answer what I said about Paul. Did he consider both of these real historical people? If he did, the reference in Genesis is literal.

johnnys4life said:

As for the word Elohim, it depends on where you look it up. God does say "let us create man in OUR image" emphasis added, but most people consider that to mean the trinity, if they are Christian at least.

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I strongly disagree. Educated people all over the world know that rulers of all kinds use the "plural of majesty" when referring to themselves. I doubt that you could find even one European Christian mistaking that plural for a reference to the Trinity.

prosecutor said:

hoomer:

My point you seem to miss is that historical characters must be assumed to be real unless the evidence warrents a different conclusion. To say "Adam and Eve" were not real people is without any proof to the contrary. If you wish to argue the point, please answer what I said about Paul. Did he consider both of these real historical people? If he did, the reference in Genesis is literal.

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ah..."real" and "proof" the requirements of the intellect....those Victorians need a darn good spanking for the plague they have unleashed upon the human psyche...

Here's the thing...adam and eve goes agaisnt historical evidence...from fossil records...ony this week a skull fragment in ethiopia has been found...195, 000 yrs old....the bible states adam and eve are only 6000 yrs ago....frankly your "evidence" argument is as ful of holes as a scientistific argument for eventual "photographs" of gravitons.....but thats a tangent sightly.....

So here's the thing......Aesop never required a real crow and a fox to fight over cheese to teach his lesson......

Ok does this make with all certainty adam and eve not real people....no it does not.......
Tourists STILL try to goto the Address where Sherlock holmes lived in LOndon though...does this mean Sherlock Holmes existed?

Here's another horrilbe thing to consider.....Christianity itself doesnt even require Christ....ok I know this will get shocked ooks and fingers in the ears from christians...(I can picture them saying no no no no..with fingers in their ears)....You see the teachings of the Christ do not require a physical manifest historica being......yes this means pretty much ALL the iterterature written to prove Jesus' historical existance is a s much worth as a chocoate tea pot.....Why dont we need Jesus? as the teachings and the conciousness that exists through the christ require no "prototypical hippy dude with a beard...." just as Buddhists dont actualy require the Buddha.......

Do I personally think Christ waked the earth...I am not sure..I'd say yes...but I dont think its important if he did or didnt...but then I'm a heretic...I beleive the 3 fold pattern of creation, destruction and "redemption"...is the responsibility of ALL human beings...not just 1 man (Jesus)...."he that believeth in me...."

but as I notice this debate has been removed from the christian section..I assume as I'm not orthodox ennough...or the entire debate for that matter....lol....I can be as heretical as I like....

Here's the thing...we are discussing archetypes...the orignial NON jungain ones....I guess I shoud teach what a archetype really is..as opposed to the modern corrupt form of the word...... or maybe I coud eave it open for you to discover for yourself....with a dictionary! a GOOD one..... ......maybe you already know...thugh I doubt it from your previous post.....:bonk: well I must work...darn my cold

anders said:

I strongly disagree. Educated people all over the world know that rulers of all kinds use the "plural of majesty" when referring to themselves. I doubt that you could find even one European Christian mistaking that plural for a reference to the Trinity.

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Elohim is the Shekinah according to Arthur edward waite's bk "the holy kabbalah"....but no one cares:bonk: :biglaugh:

prosecutor said:

hoomer:

My point you seem to miss is that historical characters must be assumed to be real unless the evidence warrents a different conclusion. To say "Adam and Eve" were not real people is without any proof to the contrary. If you wish to argue the point, please answer what I said about Paul. Did he consider both of these real historical people? If he did, the reference in Genesis is literal.

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It is a traditional Orthodox teaching that the garden of Eden should not be taken literally and that it consists of a deeper spiritual meaning. I would say that Adam and Eve existed, but as for a literal man and his wife, they are symbols representing abstract things. An early church father even interpreted the story as allegory. Personally, I think it's absurd to think a woman literally talked to a snake. I really don't care what Paul thinks, there are some things he said that even contradicts Jesus' original message.

"Paul contradicts Jesus"? Paul wrote that "the gospel that was preched by him", "he received it through revelation of Jesus Christ" (Galatians 1:11,12) Then again, you informed us that "you really don't care what Paul thinks." Well, I'll take Paul over you any day. Also Paul never contradicted Christ. Now don't try and show me where he did. WHY? Because, oracle, "you don't care what Paul thinks".
Prosecutor

Mary bore Christ. Joseph could not do it so therefore Mary bore Jesus. If men bore children would Joseph been Christ's father? Would God be referred to as a goddess? Strange I know, but I stand by my opinion of God being sexless.

The holy spirit, pure beautiful, feminie energy, listen to your heart while meditaing on the issue.

Isis-Astoroth said:

Though the original bible never mentioned God as a 'he', it has been translated so that it does. This had lead so many to see God as a male and not as a non-gender being.

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Yes, but I think that's because of human nature instincitvely suppressing the female...in a lot of ways we haven't really evolved from this, unfortuately.

Isis-Astoroth said:

I am not saying that Christianity is false, that it is in someway lying, but what I am saying is that I feel that it has pushed women into a position that the shouldn't have to be in.

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Again, I agree with how bad this is, but I think it would have happened anyway..it's humankind's inability to learn that we are all equal. We're getting there, of course, gradually.

Freelancer7 said:

The holy spirit, pure beautiful, feminie energy, listen to your heart while meditaing on the issue.

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God has the right to be feminine in the right of marrying his son to adapt the curious angel ADAM thus we have the answer of why he is the first "man" and eve just came as told in the bible.

http://www.bcca.org/bahaivision/prayers/33.html

This is a link to the text of the Tablet of the Holy Mariner. It makes a great deal of use of the "Dvine Maiden", the "Sophia" as part of the nature of God.

The prayer is mainly about faithfulness to the Covenant established by Baha`u'll's revelation. The prayer itself is a sufi style word poen, originally written in Farsi (Persian). It was a vision of the Divine Maiden that began Baha`u'llah's revelations when He was imprisoned in the Siyah Chal, the Shah's most horrible prison in Teheran. It was originally dug out to be a cistern for the baths near the palace, but was converted to a large prison where prisoners were chained to the walls in the perpetual dark. Prisoners were routinely allowed one hour a day in the outdoors, food was either provided by the families of the imprisoned or they starved.

Regards,
Scott