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Isn't Islam an idol worshiping religion?

Is Islam an idol-worshiping religion?


  • Total voters
    44

K.Venugopal

Immobile Wanderer
K.Venugopal, are you hindu?

In the religious context, I find the question difficult to answer. If I were to say I am a Hindu or a Christian, I would only be denoting the membership of a community. I do not want to belong to any community as far as religion is concerned because I believe the best teachings in religions ought to lead us to spirituality, which is the very antithesis of identity. However, in the context of being proud of a culture that says, "Truth is one and it can be expressed variously" and has successfully exemplified it in its long history, I am a Hindu. I am particularly proud of Swami Vivekananda and Dr. Hedgewar, who awakened India to its spiritual and social heritage respectively.
 
No but Muhammed (pbuh) kissed the stone. Also muslims around the world, when they come for Haj, they try to touch the stone or kiss it. They are not worshipping, you are 100% correct there. But they still revere it.
 

K.Venugopal

Immobile Wanderer
Strictly speaking, worship is an act of reverence directed to God or whom or what we suppose is God. The word worship used in other contexts is only a metaphorical usage - like, he's the star of the team - worshipped by fans across the country. Since Muslims say there is only one God and that God is invisible, they would certainly not be worshipping anything that we can see in this world. This being so, if a Muslim comes upon a person worshiping a stone, he would naturally feel that the worship is erroneous because the stone is not God. He would however, have failed to see the following:

1. A person worshiping an idol may have the following reasons:

(a) He understands that the idol, by special processes, has the presence of God in
an intensity he can relate to.
(b) That God is not restricted to the idol but God has given an opportunity for him,
with his limited senses, to grasp His munificence by approaching Him at a focal
point in a temple to pray for blessings.
(c) That an idol is not the be all and end all of his interaction with God - all idols
come with its own traditions and mythologies and incantations and
scriptures and teachings, and temple histories and last but not least, religions.

2. That even though a Muslim is instructed to worship none but Allah, he cannot,
being a normal human being of limited senses, conceive the invisible Allah and
therefore would necessarily have to reduce Allah to the level of his capacity to
conceive the invisible and that can only be in the form of idols, whether by usage
of the word Allah, or Ka'aba as direction marker or prayer at fixed times.

3. That though the form of worship and concept of God may differ between
different religions, all worshippers are human and therefore given the same
circumstances, their experiences are likely to be alike.

In conclusion, worship of God or Gods mean just that - a communion between humans and the ultimate power or powers, which we can never conceive except in human ways. Therefore all worship is necessarily idol worship.
 

almifkhar

Active Member
when i pray i do not picture anything for god is formless. when i pray the kabbah is the futherest thing from my mind. i too have problems with the kabbah and the stone inside not to mention the ritual of the prayer there and i have yet to have anyone explain to me the real reasons for the entire ritual. the direction in which we pray is actually a three fold thing. first off the direction in which we pray is assoicated as the place that the creator dwells, also it has to do with earths electromaganic grids and the navels, mecca is the spot for us because mecca is a navel of the earth (not the only one i must add) speaking as a muslim for myself, i am not an idol girl.
 

K.Venugopal

Immobile Wanderer
...the direction in which we pray is assoicated as the place that the creator dwells...

I think you are in error here because Muslims do not pray towards a particular direction (like East or West) but towards a particular spot marked by the Ka'aba. Are you saying the creator dwells in Ka'aba?
 
In the religious context, I find the question difficult to answer. If I were to say I am a Hindu or a Christian, I would only be denoting the membership of a community. I do not want to belong to any community as far as religion is concerned because I believe the best teachings in religions ought to lead us to spirituality, which is the very antithesis of identity. However, in the context of being proud of a culture that says, "Truth is one and it can be expressed variously" and has successfully exemplified it in its long history, I am a Hindu. I am particularly proud of Swami Vivekananda and Dr. Hedgewar, who awakened India to its spiritual and social heritage respectively.

Id say you are hindu. The all paths lead to god thing, you believe in god right? That is unique to hinduism.
 

K.Venugopal

Immobile Wanderer
...you believe in god right?

The question of believe in God arises only if you consider God as being separate from you. For me God is a word used to denote our highest potential and destiny. For me religion is all about striving towards our highest potential and destiny. Actually we are already THAT - we have just to wake up to this truth.
 

Mujahid Mohammed

Well-Known Member


I contend that Islam is an idol worshiping religion. When I say this, it would be surmised that I am out to create mischief because it is universally understood that Islam is dead against idol worship. But I do not level this charge to taunt Muslims out of any spite. I love Muslims. They are as human as anyone else. My problem is with the claim of Islam that it does not believe in idol worship.
We do not and can you provide evidence. Find me a picture of Allah somewhere. find me something carved and constructed into the descriptions of Allah.

In fact all worship is idol worship. It is not possible to worship except that worship be idol worship. The condition of idol worship is that there be a worshipper and a thing worshiped. Muslims might say that there is no “thing” that a Muslim worships. That what they worship is only the unimaginable power called Allah who created the universe. Be it so, except that they have a need to reduce that unimaginable power to a word “Allah”. A sound idol, I might say and the Muslim will say I am merely quibbling to provoke.
However, my deeper reason to declare Muslims to be the idol worshipers they would rather die than admit is that Islam considers Allah, the creator, as separate from His creation. This means that when we, the creation or creature want to connect with Allah, we have perforce to turn outwards – ever so symbolically seen when the common Muslim raises his vision upwards when he wishes to thank Allah in ordinary conversation. Of course in formal prayers Muslims turn towards Mecca – which becomes the central point to which they direct their prayers. Add to this the fact that the central point contains a huge cube structure, which if the Muslims can get near enough they would lavishly kiss, completes the case that the Muslims are indeed idol worshippers.

The case becomes all the more apparent when we consider that there is a successful ancient teaching called Adviata which even today continues to be the undercurrent of the oldest religion in the world – Hinduism. Advaita says that God is actually what we essentially are and is not a phenomenon separate from us whom we have to seek for outside and idolize concretely, as Hindu idol-worshippers do - or turn into a faith, as Muslims do.
wow, some interesting statements. Any evidence or are you going to just continue on with you opinion.
 

Mujahid Mohammed

Well-Known Member
I think you are in error here because Muslims do not pray towards a particular direction (like East or West) but towards a particular spot marked by the Ka'aba. Are you saying the creator dwells in Ka'aba?
No Allah just told us to face that way. Read ayat ul kursi in the Quran. that describes Allah you think He can dwell at the Kaba? If so you really have no idea what we believe about Allah do you.
 

K.Venugopal

Immobile Wanderer
No Allah just told us to face that way. Read ayat ul kursi in the Quran. that describes Allah you think He can dwell at the Kaba? If so you really have no idea what we believe about Allah do you.

About Allah dwelling at the Kaba, I was asking almifkhar, who had written "... the direction in which we pray is assoicated as the place that the creator dwells ...". I didn't quite understand him.

About my having an idea of what Muslims believe about Allah, I have understood as much to note that Allah is the entity to whom Muslims are expected to be slaves to. However, I have been exposed to teachings that, far from teaching that our destiny is to be slaves of God, teach that we are the God we worship.
 

Mujahid Mohammed

Well-Known Member
About Allah dwelling at the Kaba, I was asking almifkhar, who had written "... the direction in which we pray is assoicated as the place that the creator dwells ...". I didn't quite understand him.

About my having an idea of what Muslims believe about Allah, I have understood as much to note that Allah is the entity to whom Muslims are expected to be slaves to. However, I have been exposed to teachings that, far from teaching that our destiny is to be slaves of God, teach that we are the God we worship.
Really so how are we God? What attributes of God do we possess?

Well maybe we should start by you defining what God is. Because we may have a different understanding.
 

K.Venugopal

Immobile Wanderer
Really so how are we God? What attributes of God do we possess? Well maybe we should start by you defining what God is. Because we may have a different understanding.

This sounds promising. I would really like to discuss the subject of God with you. I shall take your last sentence first and comment on it.

You concede the possibility of our having a different understanding [about God]. I am almost certain that your position is that there is only one definition of God that is possible and that is as defined in the Quran. However, I would fundamentally differ from one aspect of God that is stated in the Quran - that the Creator is different from the created. I say, no - the Creator and the created are one.

This is very easily seen if we note that:

(1) the only thing that is true about the Creator that is not true about the created is the infinity of the Creator. What is born (created) must die.

(2) I am still me if I loose my hands and legs in an accident. You will commiserate my condition but you will still recognize me as I lie on the hospital bed. Now the question is, when would I cease being myself? When I die, of course.

(3) But do I die? What would be recognized as my death would only be the proof of my lifeless-body. But my life did not die. How can life die? Despite loss of my body, I continue to have my life - for you see, I too left my body with my life – nay, I am the life that left my body. Can life die? Can I die? Therefore am I not infinite? Isn’t God infinite?

Ergo, I am God.
 

Mujahid Mohammed

Well-Known Member
This sounds promising. I would really like to discuss the subject of God with you. I shall take your last sentence first and comment on it.

You concede the possibility of our having a different understanding [about God]. I am almost certain that your position is that there is only one definition of God that is possible and that is as defined in the Quran
Well if there is only one God, then there is only one way of looking at Him. Logically there can only be one God, one Creator.

However, I would fundamentally differ from one aspect of God that is stated in the Quran - that the Creator is different from the created. I say, no - the Creator and the created are one.
How? when the creation is created, and the Creator is not. they are opposite by the definition of the word.


This is very easily seen if we note that:
(1) the only thing that is true about the Creator that is not true about the created is the infinity of the Creator. What is born (created) must die.
really? this is the only thing you can come up with? As I said earlier you need to define the Creator. who is He, what do you know Him as? What does He do?

(2) I am still me if I loose my hands and legs in an accident. You will commiserate my condition but you will still recognize me as I lie on the hospital bed. Now the question is, when would I cease being myself? When I die, of course.
but when does the Creator ever stop being Himself, or less then Himself. Never.


(3) But do I die? What would be recognized as my death would only be the proof of my lifeless-body. But my life did not die. How can life die?
Who gave you life to begin with, and who took it away?

Despite loss of my body, I continue to have my life - for you see, I too left my body with my life – nay, I am the life that left my body. Can life die? Can I die? Therefore am I not infinite? Isn’t God infinite?
Ergo, I am God.
As I said, before you start to elaborate on your proofs, you need to elaborate more on your views of God. for I am not sure where this is coming from like what is your souce, nor can I make out a complete picture on what you view Allah as and how you define Him.

do you not think that Allah knows everything? isn't that another quality of Allah, His infinite knowledge of all that exists.

Please as I said elaborate more on you views of allah but I think it is best if you start another post. for continuing on with this for we will get off the topic, of which i am still waiting for an evidence for.

Ie. you proving to me Islam is an idol worshipping relgion? And like above you should start by elaborating on what you think idol worship is? and then by going into how you view Islam is idol worship in light of whatever evidence you manage to find if any.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Well, I would consider Muslims as worshipping idols in the way they treat Muhammad and the Qur'an. The same with the way they treat "holy" cities, Mecca and Jerusalem; these are like gigantic idols.

The way the Sudanese muslims treated the name of Muhammad, using his name, to charge a woman of blasphemy, amounts to idol-worshipping of their dead prophet. You don't need a "physical object" to call idol-worshipping.

But like MidnightBlue said, Islam is not the only one. All other monotheistic Abrahamic religions are the same.
 

vandervalley

Active Member
Well, I would consider Muslims as worshipping idols in the way they treat Muhammad and the Qur'an. The same with the way they treat "holy" cities, Mecca and Jerusalem; these are like gigantic idols.

The way the Sudanese muslims treated the name of Muhammad, using his name, to charge a woman of blasphemy, amounts to idol-worshipping of their dead prophet. You don't need a "physical object" to call idol-worshipping.

But like MidnightBlue said, Islam is not the only one. All other monotheistic Abrahamic religions are the same.

Ya i agree; holy cities and buildings are the biggest man-made idols in the history of human kind; people even die worshipping in it. Some got trampled to death in Mecca; which took idol worshipping to a whole new dimension.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
And aren't you still under 13 years of age and violating United States Federal Law (COPPA) to be on this website? Tricky tricky...
Wow.
He must have really been kicking your *** in the debate if you have to stoop this low...

My spiritual 'self' is immortal, not infinite. Only God is infinite. Creation is not infinite since it has a beginning. God does not have a beginning.

Regards,
Scott
I never did understand this obsession with infinity having to go both ways.
Pi, for instance comes to mind.
 

Luke_17:2

Fundamental Bible-thumper
I'm a Christian who won't even put up a cross because I consider it idolatry, so I'm probably too radical.

However, having the symbol of allah be a crescent moon is not idolatry; it's symbolism, which may become idolatry if you're not careful.
 
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