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Natural Homosexuality

Pah

Uber all member
It is not my intention to discuss the moral aspects of homosexuality but to address the use of "unnatural" and "perverted". To this end - let me show a little of the data that biolgical studies have found about the incidence of homosexuality as it occurs in nature.

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Courtship in the asexual species of whiptail lizards (all female) is almost exactly the same as the sexual whiptail lizards (1)

A male-male mating or a female-female mating is identical to the male-female mating in the purple swamp hen (or pukeko, in New Zealand), Porphyrio porphyrio.(2)

Two and one half percent of Eurasian oystercatchers (Haematopus ostralgus) form a polygyny of one male and two females. Of these, forty percent are termed “cooperative.” where the females mate with each other every six to seven hours. The alpha female and beta female mate with the male every three hours or so and every five hours or so, respectfully. (3)

“By 1984, male homosexual behavior has been reported in sixty-three mammalian species”.(4)

Females (ewes) of the bighorn sheep in the Banff and Kootney National Parks, Canada and the National Bison Range in Montana live apart from males except for the rutting season and holds herself apart from males except for the 3 days she is receptive. “The males have been described as ‘homosexual societies’.” “The few males who do not participate in homosexual activity have been labeled ‘effminate’ males” and live with the females. “The ‘normal’ macho bighorn has full-fledged anal sex with other males”.(5)

Additionally domesticated sheep ( from a grant from Congress) (page 139-140), Japanese macaques (page 142-148) and bonobos (page 148-150) are robustly documented. [secondary references are available]

There are about 300 documented cases of animal homosexuality.


(1) Evolution’s Rainbow, Joan Roughgarden, University of California Press Berkley and Los Angles, California, 2004 page129-132. Referencing D.Crews and K. Fitzgerald, 1980, “Sexual” behavior in parthenogenetic lizards (Cnemidophorus).

(2) ibid page 132-134 referencing I. Jamieson and J. Craig, 1987, Male-male and female-female courtship and copulation in communally breeding birds.

(3) ibid page 134-136 referencing D. Heg and R. Van Treuren, 1998, Female-female cooperation in polygnous oystercathchers, Nature 391:687-91

(4) ibid page 137 referencing A. I. Dagg, 1984, Homosexual behavior and male-female mounting in mammals - a first survey, Mammal Rev. 14:155

(5) ibid page 138 referencing V. Geist, 1971 Mountain Sheep: A study in Behavior and Evolution, University of Chicago Press, 1984 and J. Berger, 1985 Instances of female-like behavior in a male ungulate, Anim. Behav. 33:333-335.

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As homosexuality is present and documented in a large number of species, it can hardly be argued as being "unnatural". And if iit is natural, it can hardly be called perverted.

Should there be a wish to have more details concerning some of these animals, I will answer in PM.
 

posit

New Member
Dear Pah,

1) The rare spotted doggius maximus eats his own puke and identifies his friends by sniffing their private parts. He also licks his anus.

2) The black widow spider eats her husband after a nice romantic night of love-making...mmmmm, yummy!

3) The earthworm eats and poos out of the same hole.


WEEEE! Lets all get natural!
 

Rex

Founder
posit said:
Dear Pah,

1) The rare spotted doggius maximus eats his own puke and identifies his friends by sniffing their private parts. He also licks his anus.

2) The black widow spider eats her husband after a nice romantic night of love-making...mmmmm, yummy!

3) The earthworm eats and poos out of the same hole.


WEEEE! Lets all get natural!

Are you trying to say that all of God's creatures are nasty and pervous?

I might be wrong but aren't humans the same people that had heads cut off in the middle of town for people's enjoyment?

Did we not torture people to find out their innocence?

Are we not the ones that destroy where we live today?

By saying these insects do all of these things, there are a 100 similarities to humans.
 

posit

New Member
Are you trying to say that all of God's creatures are nasty and pervous?

No. I'm saying that what's right for the goose is not necessarily right for the gander. To say that something is natural for humans just because it's natural for other creatures is, to me, just a wee bit silly.

I might be wrong but aren't humans the same people that had heads cut off in the middle of town for people's enjoyment?

Yes. Does that make it right?

Did we not torture people to find out their innocence?

Yes. Does that make it right?

Are we not the ones that destroy where we live today?

Not sure exactly what you mean by this. Are you talking about environmental pollution and humankind's seemingly inability to look 2 inches past their own little existence on this earth? Interesting point but not sure how you're tying it into "natural homosexuality".

By saying these insects do all of these things, there are a 100 similarities to humans.

OK. Does that make it right?

I personally don't agree with homosexuality but neither do I agree with people who are mean or people who steal or people who think they're better than everybody or people who knowingly sell broken merchandise. So many "Christians" get up on their self-righteous horse and condemn all gay's to hell - you rarely see those same people rallying together to stop rapists or inside traders or just plain jerks.

What people do in their home (as long as they're not infringing on the rights of anyone else) is between them and God. You want to discuss it, great! But leave the judgement part to God.

Peace
 

Pah

Uber all member
Gentlemen,

Please,the determination of the rightness of natural homosexuality should not be the topic. It should center around the use of unnatural or perverted or abomnible or unclean to describe homosexuality. I would expect some comments about what was considered unclean at the time of the writing of the OT and what it is today.
 

Pah

Uber all member
posit said:
Dear Pah,

1) The rare spotted doggius maximus eats his own puke and identifies his friends by sniffing their private parts. He also licks his anus.

Dogs and cows eat regurgitation as a form of "chewing the cud". Some birds feed their young that way.

The genitals provide a great deal of identifying odor

Perhaps you should train a dog to use toilet paper

2) The black widow spider eats her husband after a nice romantic night of love-making...mmmmm, yummy!

And he waits around while the female deals with the fertilized eggs so she can do this.

3) The earthworm eats and poos out of the same hole.

As does every fetus by way of the placenta.

Nature is wonderful !
 
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