How do you know that your holy scriptures are from God?!

[McBell]

But what did you expereince , a form of godliness without expereincing the power and demonstration of God.
You may have only had a relgion of dogma ,doctrine and rules,but did you receive the Holy Spirit ,the power and demonstration of God's power that converts ,which again is the Holy Spirit

May have?
And why do you believe you can tell me what I did/did not experience?
This is a big part of your problem.
You cannot understand how anyone can disagree with your proposed 'truth' so therefore I could not have "properly" experienced it.
As I said, this is nothing more than you refusing to accept something you disagree with.

I'm sorry ,but I will mention to others it is the truth, but it is up to God to reveal it as the only truth to those who come to him in repentance and brokenness.

And here you created a nice strawman to attack.

Paul says that in Cor
1Cr 2:4 And my speech and my preaching [was] not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

LOL
of course the book that is attempting to sell you a particular God is going to promote only that God.

But human rationale,pride ,arroagnce and ego have always come between God and man and always will.

So does arrogance, lies and false teaching.
Especially when they come from those who are attempting to recruit for God.

It seems in my expereince talking with people on the street or hospitals ,that many tend to forsake their preconcieved notions and doubts when life has struck them or those close to them with tradgedy ,sickness,death etc.

LOL
this is actually a detriment to your position.
To bad you do not understand how or why.

If any so called Christians try to convert or convince you by mere logic that God is truth ,he is a fool, it is their responsibility to declare it as truth , and God's to reveal it as truth.

Back to your strawman I see.

Skeptics often make it seem like it's truth because we say it is .
At least with me, I just present it and if the person chooses to explore it and call on and receive Christ ,his Holy Spirit wil reveal the truth BY POWER AND DEMONSTRATION

With you?
Yet these words spilled from your mouth in post #43:

you can't rule it out unless you have entered into a Holy Ghost experience, you aren't even qualified to discuss it.
​

As in Jesus day ,so it is today, that many claims are made as to the reality of a God ,judgment day ,sin ,salvation etc ,people either accept it or reject it, what you do with the information and knowledge you receive everyday from all aspects of life,you will be responsible for,not the one who delivered it.

The thing about you is that you are mistakenly convinced your argument is an either/or when concerning your god.

That is because you don't assimilate the relationship to God that a born again Christian has with God ,compared to the religious people today and in Jesus' day who had merely an external pious form of Godliness through their self imposed practices and traditional practices,but never connected with God through his spirit

Again with the crap.
You make this assumption based upon your not being able to accept that there are in fact some people who do understand/know, yet disagree with it.
Until such time as you can get over this, you will forever be stuck in this rut and only successful when preaching to the choir.

For that Jesus, exposed them and said ,depart from me, I never knew you.

Prove it.
Fact is, there is nothing about Jesus anywhere that does not use the Scriptures the Bible is based upon as it's source.
As I already stated:

of course the book that is attempting to sell you a particular God is going to promote only that God
​

But that is a topic for another thread.

Religion is of more an association or union to a particular,tradition, denomination practice, ritual in hopes to gain God's acceptance and appraoval,than it is to a god.

To you perhaps.
But your redefining the word to fit your needs does nothing to help anyone other than those in your choir.

Christianity is based on a personal encounter with God through receiving what he has done for us ,(relationship)not what we can do to for him through religion.
But people in the secular community need to associate Christianity as being a relgion ,so that's what we have. But in reality we have a personal living relationship to God through Jesus. BIG DIFFERENCE!!

If you were to call a tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?
Four.
Calling a tail a leg does not make the tail a leg.

Same thing applies here.

Jesus was very expressive of that to the high ruling relgious leaders of his time,where he exposed them for being externally clean ,but dead inside,there was a difference and it's called relationship ,intimacy with God ,as hard as that may be to comprehend.

Oh.
You still trying to convince us that your religion is not a religion?

What I am saying is, there is relationship with God where God reaches down and intervenes with his poeple personally and there is what is widely known as relgion, that is, man trying earnestly to reach for God through self imposed practices ,rituals rules and man made ordinances.
Relationship goes above and beyond religion

STILL GOING.
I wonder who it is you are trying to convince.
Me or yourself?

The Holy Spirit of God reveals to born again Christians what is truth and what is false and that does not mean we throw it in people's faces , or expect you to believe it, it is a personal revelation.

LOL
another convenient out for you.
Yet here you are trying to shove your "personal revelation" ( seems to me the Bible has something to say about 'personal revelations') down everyone else's throat.

Also whatever is contrary to sound doctrine, referring to scriptures.
But again I won't tell you your wrong ,that is up to you to discover.
But that is what we beleive ,not just intellectually ,but the Holy Spirit confirms it.

I am not wrong.
That is what you cannot accept.
That disagreement with you does not equate being wrong.
That disagreement with your deity does not equate being wrong.


This is YOUR hang up.
Not mine.
But you feel free to tell yourself whatever you must in order to get by.

 

[~Amin~]

This is YOUR hang up.
Not mine.
But you feel free to tell yourself whatever you must in order to get by.

NNOOOO this is ALL your OWN hangup.
You can turn all you've said in this thread
or anywhere in this forum and flip it on
yourself.

 

[McBell]

NNOOOO this is ALL your OWN hangup.
You can turn all you've said in this thread
or anywhere in this forum and flip it on
yourself.

Ah yes, once again with your refusal to see anything that you dislike or do not understand.
And yes, I did notice that yet once again you did not address the points in question.
You are rather the expert at avoidance.

 

[roli]

This is YOUR hang up.
Not mine.
But you feel free to tell yourself whatever you must in order to get by.

I don't have a hang up with you or any other skeptic,regarding my belief.
I don't loose any sleep over inflamatory remarks or ridicule because of where I stand.
I understand the things of God which are far more important than having some intellectual arguement with you
The things concerning the Kingdom of God,you will ever comprehend in your intellect, it's amusing to watch unbelievers,skeptics profess to speak of God as if they know him or the things in his word.Jesus speaks that it is impossible for them to know these things. Ouch!!!!
This world that will soon pass away, it's not my home,arguing my position and having empty debates with you are exahusting.
One thing I will say,is, the Holy Spirit reveals the truth upon conversion,not my job

A man who does not have the Holy Spirit will quite possibly understand some basic truths in the bible ,but the mysteries of God are hidden from skeptics and unbelievers
So unless you recieve Christ it will just be another relgious book and not revelation from God.
1Cr 2:14But people who aren't Christians can't understand these truths from God's Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them because only those who have the Spirit can understand what the Spirit means.

 

[roli]

Ah yes, once again with your refusal to see anything that you dislike or do not understand.
And yes, I did notice that yet once again you did not address the points in question.
You are rather the expert at avoidance.

Who peed in your cereal anyways???????
You sound like one miserable wretch , do you hold any conversations with anyone
Or are you just out to insult with sarcasim and make aggressive attacks on every thread.

 

[Autodidact]

Who peed in your cereal anyways???????
You sound like one miserable wretch , do you hold any conversations with anyone
Or are you just out to insult with sarcasim and make aggressive attacks on every thread.

roli: Read carefully. He's accusing you of avoiding the questions. Did you notice that your reply does exactly that? Kinda proves his point.

 

[Scott1]

A man who does not have the Holy Spirit will quite possibly understand some basic truths in the bible ,but the mysteries of God are hidden from skeptics and unbelievers
So unless you recieve Christ it will just be another relgious book and not revelation from God.

Oh vey... this thread has become a trainwreck.... roli, you've gotta just take a minute and read their replies...

You and I disagree on just about everything as it relates to Christianity.... are you just going to tell ME I don't "have the Holy Spirit" either? Eventually you're gonna have to learn a new way to communicate with people.

Peace in Christ,
Scott

 

[UnityNow101]

I used to believe a lot like Roli before I began to look into different religions and see that most followers of those religions were exhibiting a greater amount of love than the people in my particular religious group at the time, which was a group of born-again Christians. Always remember the fruits of the Spirit, which were CLEARLY laid out in the Bible;

"The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."..Galatians 5

We cannot tell anyone that they do not have a connection with the Holy Spirit when they are expressing the fruits of that very Holy Spirit, correct?

 

[bradleykavin]

you dont know, thats the idea of religion. to believe, what is no real evidence. not to say i necessarily agree with the idea, but, that seems to be the definition to me

 

[love]

Quote:
Originally Posted by love
I don't believe I would recognize the world I would be in if the bible did not exist.

And you never have any thought to question it's authority for instance?

I am probably as skeptical as any one on RF. I have questioned authority all my life, many times at great cost. I still have more questions than answers.
The Bible exists, but I am no scholar. I know that there is a spirit, or consciousness within me that was not always there. I see things differently than before. When I look at the Ten Commandments I know this is good. I know love is good and hate is bad. Whether I would know this or not without the Bible I cannot say, but the Bible did not change my heart. God did.

Quote:
Can the roar of the sea or the thunder of the heavens be silenced?

Never.

Nevertheless, you wouldn't know the source of this sound. Is it the thunder on its own or someone is causing it. Got my point?

I think I understand what you are saying, but my point was it would be easier to silence the roar of the sea and the thunder of the heavens than to stop God from reaching His people.

 

[love]

1 registered members and 0 visiting guests and/or search index spiders
Most users ever online was 432 (03-02-2006 at 12:41 AM).
It sure is lonely in here this morning.

 

[~Amin~]

roli: Read carefully. He's accusing you of avoiding the questions. Did you notice that your reply does exactly that? Kinda proves his point.

Autodidact YOU go back and read again, this was directed at
me not at Roli.

 

[blueman]

The argument for the Holy Scriptures being the authentic Word from God are tied to a few factors:

(1) Over 40 independent authors from all walks of life (kings, poets, prophets, judges, musicians, military officials, fisherman, scholars) were used over a span of one thousand years to deliver God's message

(2) Historical facts regarding people places and things

(3) Archeological Evidence

(4) Common theme threaded over the period in question that underscores the following:

- Love
- Disobedience
- Judgement
- Redemption
- Opposition by a villian (Satan)
- Victory through a hero (Jesus)
- Final Judgement

There is no other book like it in either ancient or modern history. That's the basis for it's impact and authenticity.

 

[Autodidact]

The argument for the Holy Scriptures being the authentic Word from God are tied to a few factors:

(1) Over 40 independent authors from all walks of life (kings, poets, prophets, judges, musicians, military officials, fisherman, scholars) were used over a span of one thousand years to deliver God's message

(2) Historical facts regarding people places and things

(3) Archeological Evidence

(4) Common theme threaded over the period in question that underscores the following:

- Love
- Disobedience
- Judgement
- Redemption
- Opposition by a villian (Satan)
- Victory through a hero (Jesus)
- Final Judgement

There is no other book like it in either ancient or modern history. That's the basis for it's impact and authenticity.

(1) It was written by a whole bunch of people. So?
(2) Gone with the Wind. War and Peace
(3) The Iliad.
(4)
- I am the only true God. Worship me or be punished.
- This is what you can eat, wear, grow, have sex with. This is what you can't.
- This land which I gave you, kill everyone in it. The land He gave us; we killed everyone in it. Now it's ours.
- Here's how to make the correct animal sacrifices to me.

There an awful lot in it that looks like other people's myths of the time.

 

[roli]

Oh vey... this thread has become a trainwreck.... roli, you've gotta just take a minute and read their replies...

I have followed the replies and have answered ,not as you would have or any other quite possibly and I'm certainly not avoiding anything.
It's actually quite hard to pull out actuall questions when it's so muddled with jargon.
I am merely responding to his responses ,and as the story goes, it quite often gets trainwrecked when certain postions are opposed,defended,etc ,on both sides
I answer in regards to the how I see it.
Please ask the question ,if you have one, as it seems important enough to you that I do answer, can you decipher his question

You and I disagree on just about everything as it relates to Christianity....

What would that be Scotty ,I mean if you are a Christian ,and I am a christian,what could our differences possibly be.

are you just going to tell ME I don't "have the Holy Spirit" either?

I don't know ,do you or do you not, I won't tell you ,the Holy Spirit will.
Do you think the relgious leaders in Jesus day had the Holy Spirit ,just because they wore the royal garments of the preistly order ,they new the law of God and they prayed loud prayers ,not to mention they were highly esteemed by the people.
They were extremely relgious, I would even goes as far as to say, that they were as high up the proverbial relgious chain of command as the Pope ,if not higher.
Yet they killed,Jesus, liars and vipers Jesus called them,
But did they have the Holy Ghost ,
Maybe they thought they had the Holy Ghost

Eventually you're gonna have to learn a new way to communicate with people.

What are you suggesting.
I am still working on trying to share the truth of what I believe in a way that pertains to the original question and defend the gospel when I feel my Christianity is being ,well misrepresented, while trying to remain in the confines of the rules of this forum,how do you do on that.
I do get off topic ,but I certainly don;t avoid a question,so bring it on.
By the way are you neutral, liberal ,conservative.

What would the religious leaders call Jesus, zealous, liberal ,conservative, maybe a devil ,yes ,they did,Jesus who was full of love and compassion and yet provoked them so as to want him dead.He was'nt popular because he discussed topics that extremely provoked them
He did not always stroke people to gain favor or friends ,he was rejected by his own remember ,why was that.He only spoke truth ,was it the truth that irritated them
I mean Jesus was the Christ and these man were ,well, supposed Christians ,what made them different from Jesus,maybe that's what makes us different ,if indeed we are on our positions

 

[McBell]

The things concerning the Kingdom of God,you will ever comprehend in your intellect, it's amusing to watch unbelievers,skeptics profess to speak of God as if they know him or the things in his word.Jesus speaks that it is impossible for them to know these things. Ouch!!!!

And here once again you dictate to me what I do and do not understand.
What a nice out you have developed for yourself.
To bad you are mistaken.

This world that will soon pass away, it's not my home,arguing my position and having empty debates with you are exahusting.
One thing I will say,is, the Holy Spirit reveals the truth upon conversion,not my job

Apparently your job is to tell others what they do and do not know regardless of the truth.

A man who does not have the Holy Spirit will quite possibly understand some basic truths in the bible ,but the mysteries of God are hidden from skeptics and unbelievers
So unless you recieve Christ it will just be another relgious book and not revelation from God.
1Cr 2:14But people who aren't Christians can't understand these truths from God's Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them because only those who have the Spirit can understand what the Spirit means.

What does this have to do with me?

Autodidact YOU go back and read again, this was directed at
me not at Roli.

Actually, it IS you who needs to go back and read again.
It was a direct reply to roli.

 

[TashaN]

Why? God interacts intimately with us. That means that God works as well through our interpretational lenses as through any other method.

That means, anyone can claim authority and that God is talking to him. Don't you think that this might be so tempting for human to write their own writings and claim it to be from God?

 

[blackout]

GC....

Everything I believe goes through transitions and adaptations as new information is assimilated. Though, there are those moments of epiphany when it seems that everything clicks together and there may be--may be--an outside force working through me.

It's like when I come up with the perfect lyrics to a song I've been working on forever right out of the blue.

Quag...

They're all written on paper, paper comes from trees, and trees come from God.

As does the hand that writes them and the eye that reads them.

Everything comes from God, but I think He leaves it up to us as to whether or not we can use these things to come back to Him.

what they said.
(why should I bother. I couldn't say it any better.)

 

[Mr. Peanut]

Hi! I think some religious books contain false statements and must be compared and evaluated. One thing different about the Bible is all the prophecies. No other book dares tell the future, as it says:

And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Cheers!

 

[McBell]

Hi! I think some religious books contain false statements and must be compared and evaluated. One thing different about the Bible is all the prophecies. No other book dares tell the future, as it says:

And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Cheers!

If self fulfilling prophecies are enough for you, then by all means, go with it.
But to make the claim that the Bible foretold the future is just plain being dishonest.
I can make the exact same claim about modern day horoscopes and be just as correct.