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Atheism is a faith

Do you think Atheism counts as a faith

  • yes

    Votes: 24 24.5%

  • no

    Votes: 74 75.5%
  • Total voters
    98
Scuba Pete

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
MaddLlama said:
By those definitions, any opinon is a faith. Believing that Mint ice cream is the best ice cream is a faith, believing the truth that cats are adorable is a faith.

It's an extremely weak definition, and belief and faith are not interchangeable.
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From Dictionary.com

faith /feɪθ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[feyth] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability. 2.belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact. 3.belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims. 4.belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty. 5.a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
I would suggest that atheism falls under 1, 2, 4 and 5. I am not sure why you see this as "weak", except as I pointed out, that you might have a rather dim opinion of faith due to religious inferences.
 
MaddLlama

MaddLlama

Obstructor of justice
Scuba Pete said:
From Dictionary.com

faith /feɪθ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[feyth] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability. 2.belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact. 3.belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims. 4.belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty. 5.a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
I would suggest that atheism falls under 1, 2, 4 and 5. I am not sure why you see this as "weak", except as I pointed out, that you might have a rather dim opinion of faith due to religious inferences.
Click to expand...

What I'm saying is that to use the given definition of "belief" as the same definition for "faith" is a weak position, and makes faith look weak (as I don't believe that "faith" and "opinion" are the same thing).
 
U

UnTheist

Well-Known Member
MoonWater said:
What's "strawman"?
Click to expand...

WiKi:

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent. A straw man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it is in fact a misleading fallacy, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.

Basically, when you say "Atheists believe God is nonexistent" you are lying to people because that's not what Atheism claims.
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
MoonWater said:
What's "strawman"?
Click to expand...
Strawman is when you present an opponent's argument, that you might strike it down. Problem is, it isn't necessarily really their argument. It's just something you need to strike down.

Strawmen wave their arms in the wind.
 
MoonWater

MoonWater

Warrior Bard
Premium Member
UnTheist said:
WiKi:
Basically, when you say "Atheists believe God is nonexistent" you are lying to people because that's not what Atheism claims.
Click to expand...

from dictionary.com:
a·the·ist
n. someone who denies the existence of god

Seems to me like the definition is the same as what I said only worded differently. The meaning behind both statements is the same. So according to the definition I am not lying. In order for the statement "atheists believe god is nonexistent" to be a lie it would have to mean that the opposite is the truth. And for an atheist to believe in God would be a contradiction in terms.
 
Scuba Pete

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
MaddLlama said:
What I'm saying is that to use the given definition of "belief" as the same definition for "faith" is a weak position, and makes faith look weak (as I don't believe that "faith" and "opinion" are the same thing).
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Faith is not the SAME as belief, it is a function of belief. I believe my breaks work. My faith compels me to step on the pedal when I need to slow the car down. Most atheists on this forum defend their "faith" as aggressively as any theist. Their belief that God does not exist is translated into their action of defending that very same belief. :D
 
U

UnTheist

Well-Known Member
MoonWater said:
from dictionary.com:
a·the·ist
n. someone who denies the existence of god

Seems to me like the definition is the same as what I said only worded differently. The meaning behind both statements is the same. So according to the definition I am not lying. In order for the statement "atheists believe god is nonexistent" to be a lie it would have to mean that the opposite is the truth. And for an atheist to believe in God would be a contradiction in terms.
Click to expand...
Dictionary.com is using the incorrect version of Atheism.
 
Popeyesays

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Willamena said:
Strawman is when you present an opponent's argument, that you might strike it down. Problem is, it isn't necessarily really their argument. It's just something you need to strike down.

Strawmen wave their arms in the wind.
Click to expand...

Presenting an opponent's argument and striking it down is rebuttal.

Inventing an argument that your opponent never made, presenting it as if the opponent had made the argument and striking down the argument that was never made BECAUSE it is easier to do than rebutt the opponent's REAL arguments is "raising a strawman".

Regards,
Scott
 
lamplighter

lamplighter

Almighty Tallest
MoonWater said:
Belief
  1. Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something
  2. Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons.
According to these definitions then Atheism is a belief. After all there are certain ideas that an atheist must accept to be an atheist(like the idea that there is no God.) And these ideas, these "tenets" are accepted by a group of people.
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How in the world does this equate atheism as faith based? Atheism is the lack of faith that there is a higher power. If there is no empirical evidence to believe something to be true does NOT mean that it requires faith to think something not true, that is dismissal. I could say that there was a werewolf outside my window, to accept that there is werewolf outside my window without any credible evidence wound be faith, not accepting that there is a werewolf outside my window is dismissal because there is no evidence to even prove that werewolves exist let alone that very improbable chance that there happens to be one outside of somebody's window in the middle of a city makes the improbability factor sky rocket, so you would simply dismiss this as being a fact. So in this regard Atheism is dismissal where as Agnosticism doesn't dismiss nor does it accept (faith) that there is a higher power.
 
ChristineES

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
Atheists have faith that God does not exist. Theycan not prove that God exists but neither can they prove that God does not exist. ;)
 
Popeyesays

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
"How in the world does this equate atheism as faith based? Atheism is the lack of faith that there is a higher power."

No, atheism is expressing faith that there is NO higher power. In the face of no possible proof of the point of view--that makes it "faith".

regards,
Scott
 
ChristineES

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
Wow, too many ignorant posts lurking here. _
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_________________

Yes, I know. How can you stand posting them. ;)
(some people do not have a sense of humor, didn't you see the winky smilie?)
 
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