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Is The Hell Fire Justice

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
I do not fear "hellfire" because it does not exist. It's a symbol for pain of separation from God, but even that separation which burns like "hellfire" is not permanent and the soul progresses towards God in the next life despite how badly it may have done the job in this one.

regards,
Scott
 

~Amin~

God is the King
In the name of God the infinitly mercyfull and just.
A Question
How can incarceration in hell for an infinite duration in return for
unbelief for a short duration be just?
THE ANSWER: Reckoning a year to be three hundred and sixty five days,
the law justice requires for a one- minutes murderer,seven million eitght
hundred and eighty four thousand minutes,imprisonment.
So since one minute unbelief is like a thousand murders, according to
the law of human justice, someone who lives a life of twenty years in
unbelief and dies in that state ddeserves imprisonment for fifty seven billion two hundred and one thousadnd two hundred million years.
It may be understood from this how conformable with Divine justice is
the verse,
"THEY WILL DWELL THERE IN FOREVER" Quran 33:65
The reason for the conection between these two numbers,so far from
one another, is this: Since murder and unbelief are distruction and aggression
they have an affect on others. A murder which takes one minute negates
on average at least fifteen years of the victims life, so the murderer is in
prison in their place. While since one minute of unbelief denies a thousand
and one Divine Names and denegrates their inscriptions, violates the rights
of the universe and denies it's perfections, and gives the lie to innumerable
evidences, of Divine Unity and rejects their testimony,the unbeliever is cast
down to the lowest of the low for more than a thousand years and" DWELLS" in
imprisonment.
 

MaddLlama

Obstructor of justice
In the name of God the infinitly mercyfull and just.
A Question
How can incarceration in hell for an infinite duration in return for
unbelief for a short duration be just?
THE ANSWER: Reckoning a year to be three hundred and sixty five days,
the law justice requires for a one- minutes murderer,seven million eitght
hundred and eighty four thousand minutes,imprisonment.
So since one minute unbelief is like a thousand murders, according to
the law of human justice, someone who lives a life of twenty years in
unbelief and dies in that state ddeserves imprisonment for fifty seven billion two hundred and one thousadnd two hundred million years.
It may be understood from this how conformable with Divine justice is
the verse,
"THEY WILL DWELL THERE IN FOREVER" Quran 33:65
The reason for the conection between these two numbers,so far from
one another, is this: Since murder and unbelief are distruction and aggression
they have an affect on others. A murder which takes one minute negates
on average at least fifteen years of the victims life, so the murderer is in
prison in their place. While since one minute of unbelief denies a thousand
and one Divine Names and denegrates their inscriptions, violates the rights
of the universe and denies it's perfections, and gives the lie to innumerable
evidences, of Divine Unity and rejects their testimony,the unbeliever is cast
down to the lowest of the low for more than a thousand years and" DWELLS" in
imprisonment.

Why is not believing the same thing you do akin to murder? Who am I hurting by not believing in your God?
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
In the name of God the infinitly mercyfull and just.
A Question
How can incarceration in hell for an infinite duration in return for
unbelief for a short duration be just?
THE ANSWER: Reckoning a year to be three hundred and sixty five days,
the law justice requires for a one- minutes murderer,seven million eitght
hundred and eighty four thousand minutes,imprisonment.
So since one minute unbelief is like a thousand murders, according to
the law of human justice, someone who lives a life of twenty years in
unbelief and dies in that state ddeserves imprisonment for fifty seven billion two hundred and one thousadnd two hundred million years.
It may be understood from this how conformable with Divine justice is
the verse,
"THEY WILL DWELL THERE IN FOREVER" Quran 33:65
The reason for the conection between these two numbers,so far from
one another, is this: Since murder and unbelief are distruction and aggression
they have an affect on others. A murder which takes one minute negates
on average at least fifteen years of the victims life, so the murderer is in
prison in their place. While since one minute of unbelief denies a thousand
and one Divine Names and denegrates their inscriptions, violates the rights
of the universe and denies it's perfections, and gives the lie to innumerable
evidences, of Divine Unity and rejects their testimony,the unbeliever is cast
down to the lowest of the low for more than a thousand years and" DWELLS" in
imprisonment.
Oh piffle. Where do human animals get this kind of rubbish from, eh? It certainly cannot be from any being worthy of being called a "god". The so-called "Hellfire" is simply a fool's illusion envisioned by insane minds. Just because many believe in its reality does not speak highly of their esteemed understanding, but it does speak volumes about their spiritual bankruptcy. You immature vision of God may be inclined to treat "his" creations in this manner, but fortunately that vision has little bearing on reality.

Tell me, have you ever heard the story about the carrot and the stick?
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
And you know this to be true because......

"Our body is like the cage, and the spirit is like the bird. We see that without the cage this bird flies in the world of sleep; therefore if the cage becomes broken, the bird will continue and exist: its feelings will be even more powerful, its perceptions greater, and its happiness increased. In truth, from hell it reaches a paradise of delights, because for the thankful birds there is no paradise greater than freedom from the cage. That is why with utmost joy and happiness the martyrs hasten to the plain of sacrifice."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 327)

"Because, when thou lookest with the iron sight, thou wilt find 393 that all mankind is suffering in this earthly world; there is no one in such tranquillity that this state might have been a reward for his good deeds in a former life and there is no soul so happy that this might be the fruit of his past pain! Had the life of a man in his spiritual being been only confined to his life in this world, the creation would have proved useless; the divine qualities would have no result and effect; nay, all things, created beings and the world of creation would have proved abortive. I ask pardon of God for such false imaginations and for such errors!
As the usefulness and powers of the life were not seen in that dark and narrow world, but when it is brought into this vast world, all the use of its growth and development becometh manifest and obvious in it, so likewise, reward and punishment, paradise and hell, and the requital of deeds and actions done by it in the present life become manifest and evident when it is transferred to the world to come -- which is far from this world!"
(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 392)

"The immortality of the spirit is mentioned in the Holy Books; it is the fundamental basis of the divine religions. Now punishments and rewards are said to be of two kinds. Firstly, the rewards and punishments of this life; secondly, those of the other world. But the paradise and hell of existence are found in all the worlds of God, whether in this world or in the spiritual heavenly worlds. Gaining these rewards is the gaining of eternal life. That is why Christ said, "Act in such a way that you may find eternal 324 life, and that you may be born of water and the spirit, so that you may enter into the Kingdom."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 323)

"My God, Thou Whom I adore and worship, Who art Most Powerful! I testify that no description by any created thing can ever reveal Thee, and no praise which any being is able to utter can express Thee. Neither the comprehension of any one in the whole world, nor the intelligence of any of its peoples, can, as it befitteth Thee, gain admittance into the court of Thy holiness, or unravel Thy mystery. What sin hath kept the inmates of the city of Thy names so far from Thine all-glorious Horizon, and deprived them of access to Thy most great Ocean? One single letter of Thy Book is the mother of all utterances, and a word therefrom the begetter of all creation. What ingratitude have Thy servants shown forth that Thou hast withheld them, one and all, from recognizing Thee? A drop out of the ocean of Thy mercy sufficeth to quench the flames of hell, and a spark of the fire of Thy love is enough to set ablaze a whole world.Whose gifts is not arrested by the withdrawal of the peoples of the world. From eternity the door of Thy grace hath remained wide open. A dewdrop out of the ocean of Thy mercy is able to adorn all things with the ornament of sanctity, and a sprinkling of the waters of Thy bounty can cause the entire creation to attain unto true wealth.
(Baha'u'llah, Prayers and Meditations by Baha'u'llah, p. 245)
O Thou Who art the All-Knowing! Wayward though we be, we still cling to Thy bounty; and though ignorant, we still set our faces toward the 246 ocean of Thy wisdom. Thou art that All-Bountiful Who art not deterred by a multitude of sins from vouchsafing Thy bounty, and the flow of


"The hearts of Thy chosen ones, O my Lord, have melted because of their separation from Thee, and the souls of Thy loved ones are burnt up by the fire of their yearning after Thee in Thy days. I implore Thee, O Thou Maker of the heavens and Lord of all names, by Thy most effulgent Self and Thy most exalted and all-glorious Remembrance, to send down upon Thy loved ones that which will draw them nearer unto Thee, and enable them to hearken unto Thine utterances."
(Baha'u'llah, Prayers and Meditations by Baha'u'llah, p. 7)

"Know then that He who uttered these words in the realms of glory meant to describe the 54 attributes of the One Who is to come in such veiled and enigmatic terms as to elude the understanding of the people of error. Now, when He saith: "His eyes were as a flame of fire", He alludeth but to the keenness of sight and acuteness of vision of the Promised One, Who with His eyes burneth away every veil and covering, maketh known the eternal mysteries in the contingent world, and distinguisheth the faces that are obscured with the dust of hell from those that shine with the light of paradise.51 Were His eyes not made of the blazing fire of God, how could He consume every veil and burn away all that the people possess? How could He behold the signs of God in the Kingdom of His names and in the world of creation? How could He see all things with the all-perceiving eye of God? Thus have we conferred upon Him a penetrating vision in this day. Would that ye believe in the verses of God! For, indeed, what fire is fiercer than this flame that shineth in the Sinai of His eyes, whereby He consumeth all that hath veiled the peoples of the world? Immeasurably exalted shall God remain above all that hath been revealed in His unerring Tablets concerning the mysteries of the beginning and the end 55 until that day when the Crier will cry out, the day whereon we shall all return unto Him."
(Baha'u'llah, Gems of Divine Mysteries, p. 53)

"Say: The heavens have been folded together, and the earth is held within His grasp, and the corrupt doers have been held by their forelock, and still they understand not. They drink of the tainted water, and know it not. Say: The shout hath been raised, and the people have come forth from their graves, and arising, are gazing around them. Some have made haste to attain the court of the God of Mercy, others have fallen down on their faces in the fire of Hell, while still others are lost in bewilderment. The verses of God have been revealed, and yet they have turned away from them. His proof hath been manifested, and yet they are unaware of it. And when they behold the face of the All-Merciful, their own faces are saddened, while they are disporting themselves. They hasten forward to Hell Fire, and mistake it for light. Far from God be what they fondly imagine! Say: Whether ye rejoice or whether ye burst for fury, the heavens are cleft asunder, and God hath come down, invested with radiant sovereignty. All created things are heard exclaiming: "The Kingdom is God's, the Almighty, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.""
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 41)

Say: He ordaineth as He pleaseth, by virtue of His sovereignty, and doeth whatsoever He willeth at His own behest. He shall not be asked of the things it pleaseth Him to ordain. He, in truth, is the Unrestrained, the All-Powerful, the All-Wise.
They that have disbelieved in God and rebelled against His sovereignty are the helpless victims of 285 their corrupt inclinations and desires. These shall return to their abode in the fire of hell: wretched is the abode of the deniers!
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 284)

"My God, Thou Whom I adore and worship, Who art Most Powerful! I testify that no description by any created thing can ever reveal Thee, and no praise which any being is able to utter can express Thee. Neither the comprehension of any one in the whole world, nor the intelligence of any of its peoples, can, as it befitteth Thee, gain admittance into the court of Thy holiness, or unravel Thy mystery. What sin hath kept the inmates of the city of Thy names so far from Thine all-glorious Horizon, and deprived them of access to Thy most great Ocean? One single letter of Thy Book is the mother of all utterances, and a word therefrom the begetter of all creation. What ingratitude have Thy servants shown forth that Thou hast withheld them, one and all, from recognizing Thee? A drop out of the ocean of Thy mercy sufficeth to quench the flames of hell, and a spark of the fire of Thy love is enough to set ablaze a whole world.
O Thou Who art the All-Knowing! Wayward though we be, we still cling to Thy bounty; and though ignorant, we still set our faces toward the 246 ocean of Thy wisdom. Thou art that All-Bountiful Who art not deterred by a multitude of sins from vouchsafing Thy bounty, and the flow of Whose gifts is not arrested by the withdrawal of the peoples of the world. From eternity the door of Thy grace hath remained wide open. A dewdrop out of the ocean of Thy mercy is able to adorn all things with the ornament of sanctity, and a sprinkling of the waters of Thy bounty can cause the entire creation to attain unto true wealth."
(Baha'u'llah, Prayers and Meditations by Baha'u'llah, p. 245)
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Bravery, compassion, kindness, generosity, fairness -- all virtues that are decisively superior to justice.
 

rojse

RF Addict
Yes it is

I do not see how being burned and tortured in hellfire for eternity can be justice. Whether it is for a finite amount of time is a different debate.

What about the fact that there is no possibility of rehabilitation, or earning forgiveness?

What crimes do you feel merit such a punishment?
 

MaddLlama

Obstructor of justice
Hurting oneself is not suicide killing oneself is suicide.

Yes, and hurting ones self isn't murder.
That still doesn't explain to me why not being a Muslim is worse than breaking into someone's house and stabbing them in the chest repeatedly.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
I am Christian and I don't believe in Hell-fire either. I also believe it is a symbolism for the separation from God.
 

wednesday

Jesus
I see hellfire as a warning to mortals to 'obey God or else be condemned.' The loving God isn't all that loving is he?
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
I see hellfire as a warning to mortals to 'obey God or else be condemned.' The loving God isn't all that loving is he?

O Servant! Love Me that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no way reach thee. know this, O servant.

The hellfire is a symbol for seperation from the Beloved (God). But that separation is only because we insist upon it.

Regards,
Scott
 
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