What is your opinion of Jesus?

[InChrist]

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not because of works, lest any man should boast"
Romans 3:28 "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."
Galatians 2:16 "...yet who know that a man is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ, and not by works of the law, because by works of the law shall no one be justified."

Just to remind you that apart from "he will repay each person according to what he has done", Jesus also said: "For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished" (Matthew 5:18).
Even Jesus' brother confirmed this.. "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." (James 2:24)

Really fed up with the huge number of contradictions in the Bible..Unbelievable!!

Those are not contradictions. Those who have trusted Christ for their salvation are saved/justified by their faith … and their good works followed salvation demonstrate the reality of their faith. Those who never m

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not because of works, lest any man should boast"
Romans 3:28 "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."
Galatians 2:16 "...yet who know that a man is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ, and not by works of the law, because by works of the law shall no one be justified."

Just to remind you that apart from "he will repay each person according to what he has done", Jesus also said: "For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished" (Matthew 5:18).
Even Jesus' brother confirmed this.. "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." (James 2:24)

Really fed up with the huge number of contradictions in the Bible..Unbelievable!!

There is no contradiction at all. All those who place their faith in Christ for salvation are saved/justified, receive forgiveness & eternal life by faith. Nevertheless, good works follow salvation and demonstrate one’s faith is genuine. Every believer will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ and be rewarded or not for the things done in this life.

Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:9-10

What is the judgment seat of Christ? | GotQuestions.org

What is the judgment seat of Christ? What is the bema seat? If all of a believer’s sins are forgiven, what is there for Christ to judge at the judgment seat?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[InChrist]

Headed for the destruction designed by.... who again? I'm sorry, but it's sophistry to deny that your god doesn't present an either/or proposition. It's 'love' is anything but 'unconditional'. There is the condition of blind belief, followed by the dire consequence of eternal destruction if you don't meet the first condition.

Okay, so tell me …if God is the only source and sustainer of life, light, love, beauty, goodness, joy, on and on, how is it that one is not solely responsible for their own self-destruction when they reject life with God and instead head into utter isolation and darkness?
It might seem to be either or or on God’s part, but it is simply basic reality that humans cannot live happily in eternity without God.

 

[InChrist]

I would say an even more plausible explanation is that they were written after the destruction of the Temple, but the authors wanted the stories to seem prophetic to an audience that would have known that the Temple had been destroyed.

Yes, I am sure that is what you’d say. Not howI see it.

 

[InChrist]

Seems crazy that anyone would refuse the love and eternal hope and freedom that the used car salesmen down the street offers you in return for buying a lemon, but he offers much the same amount of reliable evidence that he can fulfill his promises as what Jesus does - ie none at all in my view.

We bought a nice used vehicle. It was very reliable on a recent two thousand mile trip. The salesman never mentioned anything about love, eternal life, or freedom, though.

 

[InChrist]

Well, in this case you only have to read the chapter.
First of all the author says that the sign is for king Ahaz. Secondly he writes that a young woman IS already with a child (ἰδοὺ ἡ παρθένος ἐν γαστρὶ ἕξει), not will be with a child. Thirdly that before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted.

What is the point of giving Ahaz a sign that will happen centuries later? How would a sign that will happen centuries later reassure Ahaz? And who were the two kings who were looking to capture the land of Israel, at the time Jesus was a young boy?

Isaiah Reassures King Ahaz
In the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, son of Uzzi′ah, king of Judah, Rezin the king of Syria and Pekah the son of Remali′ah the king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to wage war against it, but they could not conquer it. 2 When the house of David was told, “Syria is in league with E′phraim,” his heart and the heart of his people shook as the trees of the forest shake before the wind.

3 And the Lord said to Isaiah, “Go forth to meet Ahaz, you and She′ar-jash′ub[a] your son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool on the highway to the Fuller’s Field, 4 and say to him....

It's the most obvious fraudulent attempt to connect an event to a prophecy, ever. And the most stupid one. The author of Matthew was an expert on these kind of attempts, but he was ignorant of Jesus' best friend's resurrection.

As, I have said elsewhere, many biblical prophecies have dual applications; one when given and another in the future.

“The Hebrew word in Isaiah 7:14 is “almah,” and its inherent meaning is “young woman.” “Almah” can mean “virgin,” as young unmarried women in ancient Hebrew culture were assumed to be virgins. Again, though, the word does not necessarily imply virginity. “Almah” occurs seven times in the Hebrew Scriptures (Genesis 24:43; Exodus 2:8; Psalm 68:25; Proverbs 30:19; Song of Solomon 1:3; 6:8; Isaiah 7:14). None of these instances demands the meaning “virgin,” but neither do they deny the possible meaning of “virgin.” There is no conclusive argument for “almah” in Isaiah 7:14 being either “young woman” or “virgin.” However, it is interesting to note, that in the 3rd century B.C., when a panel of Hebrew scholars and Jewish rabbis began the process of translating the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek, they used the specific Greek word for virgin, “parthenos,” not the more generic Greek word for “young woman.” The Septuagint translators, 200+ years before the birth of Christ, and with no inherent belief in a “virgin birth,” translated “almah” in Isaiah 7:14 as “virgin,” not “young woman.” This gives evidence that “virgin” is a possible, even likely, meaning of the term.”

Is “virgin” or “young woman” the correct translation of Isaiah 7:14? | GotQuestions.org

Is “virgin” or “young woman” the correct translation of Isaiah 7:14? Is Isaiah 7:14 even intended to be a Messianic prophecy?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[InChrist]

They (or anyone in direct contact with them) didn't write anything about the good news. I doubt they experienced it. It came from a different source. A source that tries to show the first disciples as not getting it, not having faith etc.

Thanks for your opinion. I don’t see it that way.

 

[danieldemol]

We bought a nice used vehicle. It was very reliable on a recent two thousand mile trip. The salesman never mentioned anything about love, eternal life, or freedom, though.

Way to miss the point in my view. The point being that just because someone offers you something doesn't mean they can deliver on their promises.

 

[Laniakea]

Way to miss the point in my view. The point being that just because someone offers you something doesn't mean they can deliver on their promises.

There's a big difference in the promises given by a car salesman, and those given by the creator of the universe.
An even bigger difference in the ability to deliver on those promises.

 

[danieldemol]

There's a big difference in the promises given by a car salesman, and those given by the creator of the universe.
An even bigger difference in the ability to deliver on those promises.

Jesus wasn't the creator of the universe as demonstrated by his utterly primitive knowledge of it's working and history in my view.

 

[Firenze]

I don’t think it was decades…

But you do....

The Gospels are dated traditionally as follows: Mark is believed to be the first gospel written around A.D. 60.

So.... over 2 decades.

Matthew and Luke follow and are written between A.D. 60-70;

So... up to 3 decades.

John is the final gospel, written between A.D. 90-100.

So... over 5 decades.

Again - why would these alleged followers of Jesus not write down a single word for 20 YEARS?? If you witnessed Jesus post crucifixion - why would you wait more than a nanosecond to put the biggest miracle in history in writing for the sake of all mankind?

 

[Firenze]

As, I have said elsewhere, many biblical prophecies have dual applications; one when given and another in the future.

“The Hebrew word in Isaiah 7:14 is “almah,” and its inherent meaning is “young woman.” “Almah” can mean “virgin,” as young unmarried women in ancient Hebrew culture were assumed to be virgins. Again, though, the word does not necessarily imply virginity. “Almah” occurs seven times in the Hebrew Scriptures (Genesis 24:43; Exodus 2:8; Psalm 68:25; Proverbs 30:19; Song of Solomon 1:3; 6:8; Isaiah 7:14). None of these instances demands the meaning “virgin,” but neither do they deny the possible meaning of “virgin.” There is no conclusive argument for “almah” in Isaiah 7:14 being either “young woman” or “virgin.” However, it is interesting to note, that in the 3rd century B.C., when a panel of Hebrew scholars and Jewish rabbis began the process of translating the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek, they used the specific Greek word for virgin, “parthenos,” not the more generic Greek word for “young woman.” The Septuagint translators, 200+ years before the birth of Christ, and with no inherent belief in a “virgin birth,” translated “almah” in Isaiah 7:14 as “virgin,” not “young woman.” This gives evidence that “virgin” is a possible, even likely, meaning of the term.”

Is “virgin” or “young woman” the correct translation of Isaiah 7:14? | GotQuestions.org

Is “virgin” or “young woman” the correct translation of Isaiah 7:14? Is Isaiah 7:14 even intended to be a Messianic prophecy?

www.gotquestions.org

It's certainly no surprise that an apologetic site run by Christians would take this view. Unfortunately, it denies the fact - already provided - that EVERYWHERE in the OT where a virgin needed to be described, the word used was Bethulah. That's how language works. If you have a word for virgin, you use that word - not a word that is then claimed "well, we just think Almah COULD mean virgin, heh heh.." Even worse, your source ignores the fact that the use of Parthenos was a known scribal error. That's simply dishonest, and desperate.

 

[Firenze]

InChrist said:
"There is no contradiction at all. All those who place their faith in Christ for salvation are saved/justified, receive forgiveness & eternal life by faith. Nevertheless, good works follow salvation and demonstrate one’s faith is genuine. Every believer will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ and be rewarded or not for the things done in this life."

So, if someone is already saved by faith, are you saying they could lose that salvation if it is shown later that they didn't actually do any good after receiving salvation?

 

[Laniakea]

InChrist said:
"There is no contradiction at all. All those who place their faith in Christ for salvation are saved/justified, receive forgiveness & eternal life by faith. Nevertheless, good works follow salvation and demonstrate one’s faith is genuine. Every believer will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ and be rewarded or not for the things done in this life."

So, if someone is already saved by faith, are you saying they could lose that salvation if it is shown later that they didn't actually do any good after receiving salvation?

If it's shown later that they weren't saved, then what does that say about whether or not they were originally saved?

 

[Trailblazer]

Well answer this then have you ever met someone who hasent hated someone or hasent judged

I haven't met a person like that, but that does not mean such a person did not exist.

There are no Messengers of God alive and walking the earth right now, but there have been some since Jesus walked the earth.

 

[Trailblazer]

So, if someone is already saved by faith

Saved from what?

 

[Trailblazer]

If it's shown later that they weren't saved

Saved from what?

 

[Ajax]

From your finite perspective; unnecessary.
An infinite, omniscient Creator would have all the facts.

I'm only the messenger...Your Bible says what I wrote.

 

[Firenze]

From your finite perspective; unnecessary.
An infinite, omniscient Creator would have all the facts.

So.... it would not need any help to locate all of the Egyptian first born it wanted to slaughter, right?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I have bad news for you...there is no such thing as soul. There is no need for an invisible, immaterial and vague soul. The human brain is proven to be responsible for all the attributes given to soul.

But you didn't answer my question earlier in relation to faith vs works, which you didn't find contradictory. What do you think will happen to people who are just, never hurt anyone and are loving to others, but they don't believe in the Christian God?

You believe there is no soul, that's all.

What do understand this God you refer to, to actually be?

 

[Ajax]

As, I have said elsewhere, many biblical prophecies have dual applications; one when given and another in the future.

In a previous message on this subject you wrote...

Obviously, Matthew didn’t consider the passage of Isaiah 7:14 to have “hidden“ meaning, but believed the it accurately applied to the virgin birth of Jesus Christ. Therefore, I do.

Therefore what you actually said is that Matthew didn't consider the passage of Isaiah 7:14 to have “hidden“ meaning and you agree with Matthew's idea, but now that you face difficulties you say that it has hidden meaning. How convenient!!

“The Hebrew word in Isaiah 7:14 is “almah,” and its inherent meaning is “young woman.” “Almah” can mean “virgin,” as young unmarried women in ancient Hebrew culture were assumed to be virgins. Again, though, the word does not necessarily imply virginity. “Almah” occurs seven times in the Hebrew Scriptures (Genesis 24:43; Exodus 2:8; Psalm 68:25; Proverbs 30:19; Song of Solomon 1:3; 6:8; Isaiah 7:14). None of these instances demands the meaning “virgin,” but neither do they deny the possible meaning of “virgin.” There is no conclusive argument for “almah” in Isaiah 7:14 being either “young woman” or “virgin.” However, it is interesting to note, that in the 3rd century B.C., when a panel of Hebrew scholars and Jewish rabbis began the process of translating the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek, they used the specific Greek word for virgin, “parthenos,” not the more generic Greek word for “young woman.” The Septuagint translators, 200+ years before the birth of Christ, and with no inherent belief in a “virgin birth,” translated “almah” in Isaiah 7:14 as “virgin,” not “young woman.” This gives evidence that “virgin” is a possible, even likely, meaning of the term.”

OMG! ..you are again wrong.
The specific Greek word for virgin, “parthenos,” has been in use meaning virgin for perhaps 1000 years or even more..
At the time of the Septuagint's translation though, the word parthenos, also meant young woman, not virgin, and the proof is here...

Genesis 34:1-3 describes how Dinah was raped by Shechem
"Now Dinah the daughter of Leah, whom she had borne to Jacob, went out to visit the women of the land; 2 and when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, the prince of the land, saw her, he seized her and lay with her and humbled her. 3 And his soul was drawn to Dinah the daughter of Jacob; he loved the maiden and spoke tenderly to her"

Septuagint text in Greek
"Ἐξῆλθε δὲ Δείνα ἡ θυγάτηρ Λείας, ἣν ἔτεκε τῷ Ἰακώβ, καταμαθεῖν τὰς θυγατέρας τῶν ἐγχωρίων. καὶ εἶδεν αὐτὴν Συχὲμ ὁ υἱὸς Ἐμμὼρ ὁ Εὐαῖος, ὁ ἄρχων τῆς γῆς καὶ λαβὼν αὐτήν, ἐκοιμήθη μετ᾿ αὐτῆς καὶ ἐταπείνωσεν αὐτήν. καὶ προσέσχε τῇ ψυχῇ Δείνας τῆς θυγατρὸς Ἰακὼβ καὶ ἠγάπησε τὴν παρθένον καὶ ἐλάλησε κατὰ τὴν διάνοιαν τῆς παρθένου αὐτῇ."

How is it possible for Dinah to be referred to as a virgin, since she was previously raped?

If the author of Matthew knew that the Isaiah 7:14 did not mean virgin but young woman, then he is guilty of altering the meaning of Isaiah in order to present his idea of immaculate conception. If he didn't know, then he was ignorant and unsuited to present Old Testament prophecies.