How certain are you about your belief?

[mikkel_the_dane]

None of the options really is a match for me. I am reasonably confident that not all religious beliefs are correct - given that the poll is about such - since it is rather obvious that they all cannot be so. In essence, they all appear to have come from human minds alone. No particular religious belief appeals in any way (intellectually) as being more right than any other, apart from perhaps in any doctrine, so the only doubt I tend to have is in the existence of any creative force - which some might term as being God. But, like many others, my so-called beliefs are open to being modified by appropriate evidence.

Well, that is not unique to religion.
Take these 2:
I know for all humans for as knowledge that are no cases of gods for all variants of that.
I don't know for all humans for as knowledge that are no cases of gods for all variants of that.

That is the same. Only one of them could be correct, but it is not certain that any of them are correct.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I am an atheist. I chose "I am uncertain" because presumably this thread wants to deal with the "larger issues" about reality whose answers aren't obvious.

But there are many things about which I am fairly confident. Mundane things. "There is a coffee cup in front of me right now." I am a #1 or #2 about that belief. But other beliefs I have, I am not quite so certain of, but still pretty certain. "Smoking causes cancer" for instance.

That's a useful scale of certainty.

Personally, I'd put my certainty that no gods exist somewhere between "there is a cup of coffee in front of me right now" and "smoking causes cancer."

All knowledge is tentative, yadda yadda, but I can't think of much other than the general epistemological uncertainty that applies to all knowledge claims that would lend special uncertainty to the claim that no gods exist.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Well, that is not unique to religion.
Take these 2:
I know for all humans for as knowledge that are no cases of gods for all variants of that.
I don't know for all humans for as knowledge that are no cases of gods for all variants of that.

That is the same. Only one of them could be correct, but it is not certain that any of them are correct.

Well I presumed the subject was religious beliefs, and hence why I didn't mention anything else.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Well I presumed the subject was religious beliefs, and hence why I didn't mention anything else.

Yes, but there is no one definition of religion and the 2 examples I gave are covered by at least one definition of religion.

 

[vulcanlogician]

That's a useful scale of certainty.

Personally, I'd put my certainty that no gods exist somewhere between "there is a cup of coffee in front of me right now" and "smoking causes cancer."

All knowledge is tentative, yadda yadda, but I can't think of much other than the general epistemological uncertainty that applies to all knowledge claims that would lend special uncertainty to the claim that no gods exist.

Humans are intelligent beings. They also have the capacity for imagination. There is good reason to think that god concepts arise due to the admixture of these two properties of humans. They are intelligent, so humans imagine an intelligent creator.

There is no direct evidence for God. (Unless you start playing with the idea of "evidence" like design arguments do.)

Put those two ideas together and a very reasonable and well-founded case can be made for atheism. But I wouldn't put my certitude on the matter anywhere near the coffee cup or smoking causing cancer.

I would say I'm less certain about God's existence than I am about these things. It's not that the case for God has any merit at all. (It doesn't.) But the plain and simple fact is I simply have no way to obtain any certitude about the matter because it discusses things I cannot/do not have any knowledge of.

That's not the case with the coffee cup or smoking.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Yes, but there is no one definition of religion and the 2 examples I gave are covered by at least one definition of religion.

Perhaps, but a belief in God doesn't necessarily imply a belief in religion does it? I know many will have their own definition as to religion, but for me it does tend to include something other than what we simply see as reality - the physical universe - and also imply some relationship to whatever it is they believe as being responsible for this reality.

 

[HonestJoe]

I can confidently say that without a shadow of a doubt, I am 100% certain that I don't know.

 

[Mock Turtle]

No, religion is in broad terms a worldview and all humans with high enough cognition have that.
But in general all gods are a part of the world and thus a worldview.

Not in my world it isn't - being that religions to me are a subset of ideology. And many don't even have that I suspect.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Not in my world it isn't - being that religions to me are a subset of ideology. And many don't even have that I suspect.

What I wrote was nonsense. Disregard that post.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Humans are intelligent beings. They also have the capacity for imagination. There is good reason to think that god concepts arise due to the admixture of these two properties of humans. They are intelligent, so humans imagine an intelligent creator.

There is no direct evidence for God. (Unless you start playing with the idea of "evidence" like design arguments do.)

I would also say that there's evidence against most god-concepts.

Put those two ideas together and a very reasonable and well-founded case can be made for atheism. But I wouldn't put my certitude on the matter anywhere near the coffee cup or smoking causing cancer.

Why not?

Edit: I mean, from my point of view, the thought process to get to "smoking causes cancer" is similar to - and subject to similar uncertainties as - "no gods exist."

I would say I'm less certain about God's existence than I am about these things. It's not that the case for God has any merit at all. (It doesn't.) But the plain and simple fact is I simply have no way to obtain any certitude about the matter because it discusses things I cannot/do not have any knowledge of.

That's not the case with the coffee cup or smoking.

One thing that I find useful to remember: one characteristic of a god is that it's an object of human worship. This means that anything floating out in space fully beyond the ken of any human is not a god, and is therefore not a factor in the question of whether any gods exist.

For a god to be a god, it can't be out in the realm of "unknown unknowns," so this limits the uncertainty around the non-existence of gods.

 

[Eddi]

I am 65% certain in my belief that there is a God

 

[vulcanlogician]

I would also say that there's evidence against most god-concepts.

Well, I mean there's plenty of data disproving many theists' claims about the universe. But no data about beings who exist outside of space and time. And I doubt there will ever be any.

Why not?

Edit: I mean, from my point of view, the thought process to get to "smoking causes cancer" is similar to - and subject to similar uncertainties as - "no gods exist."

There is zero data about one. Plenty of data about the other.

One thing that I find useful to remember: one characteristic of a god is that it's an object of human worship. This means that anything floating out in space fully beyond the ken of any human is not a god, and is therefore not a factor in the question of whether any gods exist.

There are probably galaxies, asteroids, and gas giants floating beyond the visible universe. The likelihood is very high. But we will never be able to have certainty about their existence or properties.

That doesn't make them gods, no. But neither will we ever know anything about them... up to and including the fact that they exist or not.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well, I mean there's plenty of data disproving many theists' claims about the universe. But no data about beings who exist outside of space and time. And I doubt there will ever be any.

But why would that matter?

There is zero data about one. Plenty of data about the other.

I don't see how that's true. Both claims have lots of data: if we start with the hypothesis that no gods exist or that smoking causes cancer, our observations will match our predictions very closely.

In fact, I'd say we get better correlation for "no gods exist" than "smoking causes cancer": there are plenty of smokers who never get cancer and plenty of people who get lung cancer who never smoked, so there's strong evidence that there's more to the cancer question. OTOH, there's no observation we have - AFAICT - that can't be reconciled with a godless universe.

There are probably galaxies, asteroids, and gas giants floating beyond the visible universe. The likelihood is very high. But we will never be able to have certainty about their existence or properties.

That doesn't make them gods, no. But neither will we ever know anything about them... up to and including the fact that they exist or not.

But as I pointed out, they're irrelevant when it comes to gods. By definition, only things within the scope of human knowledge can be gods.

 

[sayak83]

Regardless what your religious belief, or faith is, including atheism even, my question for you is, how certain are you that your belief is certainly true?

Please choose an option closest.

This Poll is anonymous

How can any human possibly defend the last option. That is a claim of infallibility regarding any knowledge which no human can make responsibly.

 

[Secret Chief]

I can confidently say that without a shadow of a doubt, I am 100% certain that I don't know.

Sure?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

How can any human possibly defend the last option. That is a claim of infallibility regarding any knowledge which no human can make responsibly.

When the truth becomes as clear as the Sun in the clear sky at noon. Then you know for a fact. Then Faith will be No more guesses, no more feelings and emotions.

 

[Twilight Hue]

None of the choices fit my view.

If I have a belief, it's fluid until it's validated by evidence. Then it becomes a truth.

It's why I abandoned all beliefs and embraced educated guessing.

 

[Vinayaka]

My belief works for me. It has little to do with 'truth' in the way that is suggested. Obviously some folks would consider it as false as Paris being the capital of Mars. So none of the options made sense in my paradigm.

 

[Vinayaka]

How can any human possibly defend the last option. That is a claim of infallibility regarding any knowledge which no human can make responsibly.

But they do. That's how. We have many folks like that on this forum.

 

[sayak83]

When the truth becomes as clear as the Sun in the clear sky at noon. Then you know for a fact. Then Faith will be No more guesses, no more feelings and emotions.

Unfortunately you are wrong. We could still be in an elaborate simulation run by aliens or something