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Willow project approved. Smart move for once.

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member

Biden and puppeteers have finally passed a bipartisan measure that this country desperately needs for the next 30 years at least.


There are restrictions preserving wildlife and the US Artic Ocean. So that's a win for environmental side as well.
The needs of the planet trump the needs of a country. In fact, what this country needs is to quit clinging to an untenable status quo and make some provision for the future.
It's not going to cause an irreversible runaway greenhouse effect, so it's not that big a crisis as one thinks.
Deny the climate crisis if you want, but maybe it would be prudent to err on the side of caution.
Considering the possible -- probable according to the experts -- catastrophic effects, why not go with a Pascal's wager?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I don't find climate change and our dependence on fossil fuels to be a partisan issue. Considering it affects all aspects and levels of society.

But that's ok. Let's keep raping earth for our benefit, taking more then we can ever hope to give back.
You know the saying I think.

Build a better mousetrap.

Develop a superior ev, keep it affordable, and I'll drop fossil vehicles like a hot potato.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
People seem to forget that Biden has been a corporate yes man his entire political career. This shouldn't surprise anyone. All we can do is hope he's getting something for the American people from the republicans in return. Like their agreeing to taxing the billionaires to fund SS and Medicare.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
What an incorrigibly stupid move. Shame on the Biden administration for not vetoing this colossal, childishly ignorant, fool’s quest. :facepalm:
What possible good can come from this idiocy?
This will be a step toward lowering oil and gas prices, which will lower shipping costs and will then help to lower prices for all goods; lower inflation. Biden is being proactive, since if he wants to run as president again, A turned around economy, will be a positive for him. Green energy is not ready for prime time, which is why is needs to create a type of Big Brother monopoly which is illegal; Biden the Trust buster. The forced green monopoly of fear, has harmed everyone and needs to compete or go away. Stacking the deck does not make it better. That is a relative reference illusion; put others in hole to appear to rise. Competition will be better since it will need to rise and not just dig holes of others.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You know the saying I think.

Build a better mousetrap.

Develop a superior ev, keep it affordable, and I'll drop fossil vehicles like a hot potato.
Maintaining a system that discourages beneficial and inevitable change hinders necessary progress. It's penny wise and pound foolish.
Sometimes it takes a strong push to get entrenched interests off their butts, particularly when the necessary changes won't pay off in the next quarter.
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
This will be a step toward lowering oil and gas prices, which will lower shipping costs and will then help to lower prices for all goods; lower inflation. Biden is being proactive, since if he wants to run as president again, A turned around economy, will be a positive for him. Green energy is not ready for prime time, which is why is needs to create a type of Big Brother monopoly which is illegal; Biden the Trust buster. The forced green monopoly of fear, has harmed everyone and needs to compete or go away. Stacking the deck does not make it better. That is a relative reference illusion; put others in hole to appear to rise. Competition will be better since it will need to rise and not just dig holes of others.
That's why I like it.

Someone on the left can actually see the forest through the trees this time.

If even the motivation is to save their electoral ***.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
I wonder what the net environmental effects will be after weighing the oil production against the oil imports it will render redundant. Realistically, the US simply won't be able to adopt green energy in time to offset the reliance on fossil fuels, so until then, oil remains a necessity whether we like that or not (and I don't; large cities in my country may well become uninhabitable due to climate change). Even without this project, the US would still import oil from countries with possibly even less regulation to protect the environment. That would probably not look as egregiously anti-ecological as this project, but would the global climate effects really be so different in the long term?

I don't trust the governments of most of the world's biggest carbon producers—China, the US, India, and OPEC—to contain the climate crisis in time to avoid major effects such as severely changing weather patterns, floods, and wildfires, nor do I think it's even possible to take sufficient action in time. The world should have acted much more rigorously decades ago, but here we are. I'm just bracing myself for the climate crisis at this point.
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
This will be a step toward lowering oil and gas prices, which will lower shipping costs and will then help to lower prices for all goods; lower inflation. Biden is being proactive, since if he wants to run as president again, A turned around economy, will be a positive for him. Green energy is not ready for prime time, which is why is needs to create a type of Big Brother monopoly which is illegal; Biden the Trust buster. The forced green monopoly of fear, has harmed everyone and needs to compete or go away. Stacking the deck does not make it better. That is a relative reference illusion; put others in hole to appear to rise. Competition will be better since it will need to rise and not just dig holes of others.
That's why I like it.

Someone on the left can actually see the forest through the trees this time.

If even the motivation is to save their electoral ***.
Nope. Your opinions are unlinked to reality.
The US has the capability to become carbon neutral by 2050 at the latest. Indeed, the driving force toward renewable energy should be on par or surpassing the drive to the moon landings. Those without the knowledge and foresight currently in government not should, but must, be removed. This is not pie-in-the-sky thinking; as the technology is present and going beyond what is needed. Weakness and naivete are all that hold us back.

Opening the Willow project "will be a step toward lowering oil and gas prices, which will lower shipping costs and will then help to lower prices for all goods; lower inflation...." is not based in facts. - - - Opening drilling in these areas will take a decade plus, along with surveys to analyze best methodologies and sites for drill construction, not to mention construction. And even then, it's not as though all of the oil will magically appear in the international oil market. :rolleyes: Gas prices in Alaska are some of the highest in the nation, since none of that drilled oil goes into the tanks of cars and machinery in Alaska. It gets piped and then shipped down to California and Washington, where the refineries lay. Then the gas gets shipped back to the Alaskans who drilled it. Nice. Also, the prices are still set by international markets, so just by having local oil makes almost nil change in price. Driving your gas-powered car, and the trucks and trains hauling "all goods" will still cost the same.

As above, this will in no way resulted in "A turned around economy" :laughing:

Your sentence @wellwisher involving "Big Brother monopoly" was non sequitur, but the only power/energy related monopoly is the gas/oil international conglomerates. :shrug: They control the research and the press, telling you their wishes on renewable energy, so that you will support their whimsical desire to make ever more billions $$$. And you do certainly come through for them. :rolleyes:

"Green energy is not ready for prime time" and "The forced green monopoly of fear, has harmed everyone and needs to compete or go away" is also as laughable as the Willow project giving us "A turned around economy". Truly pathetic. Laughable if it weren't such a serious problem. But, laughably pathetic in its naivete. Renewable energy already surpasses oil/gas for cost effectiveness wherever the equipment gets set up. As above, when you pass along thoughts and tweets that say the oil/gas industry is "doing it better", you are just passing along the monopoly's propaganda. Please stop being a lemming. As for fear-mongering; you have only to look at the gas/oil propaganda about

Outdated 2015 report. Since this report, gas has gotten more costly, and renewables have gotten more efficient.

Renewable Energy Market Update - May 2022 – Analysis - IEA

Explaining the Exponential Growth of Renewable Energy



On the other hand, a more thorough and rapid conversion to the inevitable renewable energy economy would result in an massive growth in the construction and installation businesses for government, commercial, and residential green power generators, storage, R&D, building insulation, rail-shipping-auto construction, etc...etc...etc... Not to mention the academic dominance in growing fields of applied sciences that could could arguably Make America Great Again. ;)



If only the sheeple could grow up.......:neutral:
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Nope. Your opinions are unlinked to reality.
The US has the capability to become carbon neutral by 2050 at the latest. Indeed, the driving force toward renewable energy should be on par or surpassing the drive to the moon landings. Those without the knowledge and foresight currently in government not should, but must, be removed. This is not pie-in-the-sky thinking; as the technology is present and going beyond what is needed. Weakness and naivete are all that hold us back.

Opening the Willow project "will be a step toward lowering oil and gas prices, which will lower shipping costs and will then help to lower prices for all goods; lower inflation...." is not based in facts. - - - Opening drilling in these areas will take a decade plus, along with surveys to analyze best methodologies and sites for drill construction, not to mention construction. And even then, it's not as though all of the oil will magically appear in the international oil market. :rolleyes: Gas prices in Alaska are some of the highest in the nation, since none of that drilled oil goes into the tanks of cars and machinery in Alaska. It gets piped and then shipped down to California and Washington, where the refineries lay. Then the gas gets shipped back to the Alaskans who drilled it. Nice. Also, the prices are still set by international markets, so just by having local oil makes almost nil change in price. Driving your gas-powered car, and the trucks and trains hauling "all goods" will still cost the same.

As above, this will in no way resulted in "A turned around economy" :laughing:

Your sentence @wellwisher involving "Big Brother monopoly" was non sequitur, but the only power/energy related monopoly is the gas/oil international conglomerates. :shrug: They control the research and the press, telling you their wishes on renewable energy, so that you will support their whimsical desire to make ever more billions $$$. And you do certainly come through for them. :rolleyes:

"Green energy is not ready for prime time" and "The forced green monopoly of fear, has harmed everyone and needs to compete or go away" is also as laughable as the Willow project giving us "A turned around economy". Truly pathetic. Laughable if it weren't such a serious problem. But, laughably pathetic in its naivete. Renewable energy already surpasses oil/gas for cost effectiveness wherever the equipment gets set up. As above, when you pass along thoughts and tweets that say the oil/gas industry is "doing it better", you are just passing along the monopoly's propaganda. Please stop being a lemming. As for fear-mongering; you have only to look at the gas/oil propaganda about

Outdated 2015 report. Since this report, gas has gotten more costly, and renewables have gotten more efficient.

Renewable Energy Market Update - May 2022 – Analysis - IEA

Explaining the Exponential Growth of Renewable Energy



On the other hand, a more thorough and rapid conversion to the inevitable renewable energy economy would result in an massive growth in the construction and installation businesses for government, commercial, and residential green power generators, storage, R&D, building insulation, rail-shipping-auto construction, etc...etc...etc... Not to mention the academic dominance in growing fields of applied sciences that could could arguably Make America Great Again. ;)



If only the sheeple could grow up.......:neutral:
It's not entirely about the economy. It's partly helping the economy by lessening our dependence on foreign fuel and lowering the cost of fuel as a result.

Its a far more realistic approach than the fanatics trying to push inferior infrastructure and products over the clearly superior ones and creating yet more expense and headaches for others that are not wanted or needed.

Build a better mousetrap first.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Oil futures are basically actioned and sold on the international market, not the domestic.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The needs of the planet trump the needs of a country. In fact, what this country needs is to quit clinging to an untenable status quo and make some provision for the future.

Deny the climate crisis if you want, but maybe it would be prudent to err on the side of caution.
Considering the possible -- probable according to the experts -- catastrophic effects, why not go with a Pascal's wager?
Fossil fuel isn't likely going to cause a runaway greenhouse effect , so it isn't exactly a crisis to the extremes people like to tout it as for their pet agendas.

Want people on board? Do better.
 
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