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WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED?

Brian2

Veteran Member
Agreed, however, love, faith and obedience to Gods Words are not separated from each other. How can you say you love your fellow man if you lie to them, steal from them of commit adultery with their spouse? Likewise how can you say you love God and not keep His commandments when Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments (see John 14:15; John 15:10 compare this to Exodus 20:6 where God shows His mercy to those who keep His commandments). So love is not separate from faith and obedience to Gods law. Romans 3:31 says that genuine faith obeys Gods law. Jesus says in Matthew 22:36-40 that on these two great commandments of love to God and man (quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18) hang all the law and the prophets in Matthew 22:40. Paul agrees with Jesus when he says that we love our fellow man by obeying those commandments that express our duty of love to our fellow man and quotes Gods' 10 commandments as does James in James 2:8-12 and John in 1 John 5:2-4. Love is not separate from faith and obedience Brian. Faith that works by love is expressed in obedience to Gods law and is the fruit of genuine faith. Anything else according to James in James 2:17-26 is the dead faith of devils and will put us in the group that Jesus says "depart from me you who work iniquity, I never knew you," (see Matthew 7:21-23).

You have not shown that keeping the Sabbath is a commandment for Christians. It was given to Israel in the Mosaic Covenant.
You speak of commandments as if it is understood that the Sabbath is one of those commandments for Christians but you do not show that it is.


Your words here have no truth in them Brian and are a teaching of lawlessness, which is not supported in the scriptures, but allow me to explain why from the scriptures, if it might be helpful. James 2:10-11 says "10, For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law. According to James in James 2:10-11 if we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments we stand before God guilty of breaking ALL of Gods commandments and have become a transgressor of Gods law. John agrees with James here in 1 John 3:4 and says transgressing Gods law is sin. "Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. So lets not pretend Brian that if we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments we are not sinning against God. According to the scriptures sin will keep us out of Gods kingdom (see Hebrews 10:26-31). The law of liberty of freedom from sin in those who have been born again into Gods new covenant promise and given a new heart to love and walk in Gods Spirit (see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; Galatians 5:16). Those who are born again according to John do not practice sin according to John in 1 John 3:4-9 and sin is the difference (those who practice sin and those who do not practice sin) between the children of God and the children of the devil according to 1 John 3:6-10. If we are still living a life of known unrepentant sin according to 1 John 2:3-4 we need to be born of God to walk in His Spirit *Galatians 5:16. We are free from condemnation and sin when we have received Gods forgiveness through faith (see Romans 8:1-4). If we are still practicing sin we do not know God according to the scriptures and till in bondage to our sins (see John 8:31-36) and need to be born again (see John 3:3-7) because those who are born of God do not practice sin (see 1 John 3:4-10; 1 John 2:3-4). So no dear friend the scriptures teach if we are knowingly breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments we stand before God guilty of sin *James 2:10-11 so this includes Gods 4th commandment which is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 and 1 John 3:4). Gods Word does not teach lawlessness or Gods salvation through the dead faith of devils (James 2:17-26). Those who follow that path Jesus does not know (see Matthew 7:21-23 and compare 1 John 2:3-4) and John calls them the children of the devil in 1 John 3:6-10. Theses are all Gods Words not mine Brian. May you receive them and be blessed. Ignoring them does not make them disappear according to Jesus *John 12:47-48.

Take Care Brian.

We all sin and under the New Covenant we are not counted as guilty for our sins. (Psalm 32:2, Romans 4:8) Our righteousness comes by faith.
Jeremiah 23:5 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. 6 In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely. And this is the name by which he will be called: ‘The Lord is our righteousness.’
We don't earn our own righteousness through keeping the law, especially when it is a law that we are not asked to keep.

Sanctification/ making us more Christ like, is an ongoing process of God working in us to change us into the image (2Cor 3:18) but the saving of us was done by Jesus on the cross.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
The question was, "Is God's love conditional upon your obeying the law?". My answer to that is no, it is not. I'll address that verse you added here in a moment.

Before addressing this new verse you added to the other ones in the previous post, I want to quote another passage by the same author for reference in 1 Jn 4: 7-13,

Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.​
13 This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit.​
So now your verse which you read as making God's love conditional upon your performance in obeying the law, Jn. 4:21

"Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them".​
Now add what John has Jesus saying in the next couple verses in that passage. Verse23, 24

Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.​
What John in communicating of the teachings of Jesus which he lays out in both his gospel and his epistle, is that:

  1. God is Love. It is the nature of God's being. It is what God is, not what God does.
  2. Our love comes from God as its Divine Source, which is the infinite wellspring of Love itself.
  3. When we let that Love flow through us towards one another, then we are children of God, and know God, because that God is Love itself.
  4. We know that Love of God was available to us, and given to us before we kept the law, (not because we kept the law), because God sent Jesus to us (verse 10).
  5. If we love, then we know that we know God. If we do not love, then we do are not knowing God. (vs. 7, 8)
The verses you quoted are saying that exact same thing. If you love God, your actions will attest to that because you will love others. If you do not love others, then you attest you are acting outside of God's Spirit within you, or that you simply have never opened yourself to it. "Anyone who does not love me, will not obey my teaching".

I am saying that as before, the horse must come before the cart. You cannot fully obey, without the power or the Source of Love empowering you. All of this is saying if you have that Love you will do God's will, because to do otherwise is impossible, as Love cannot sin. "Love works no ill".

"Whoever keeps my commandments, is the one that loves". Absolutely correct. If we love, embrace and embody the teachings of grace, forgiveness, compassion, tolerance, non-judgmentalism, etc, then the Father, will reveal himself to them and through them, showing God's power in their lives. This is the way. Love first, obedience, or better put, action, follows. Horse before the cart. Not cart (law), before the horse (love).

Think backwards from doing, from making an effort to obey. Make an effort to allow Love to fill you, through following the principles of love; forgiveness, grace, compassion, tolerance, etc, then the rest will naturally follow. It's not about more effort to obey. It's about allowing Love to do all of it through you. No effort at all on your part.

I hope this helps.
Explain John 15:10 to me, if you don't mind. Sorry, if you already did.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
It shouldn’t sound good to you. it is against a commandment, as killing a child is against a commandment.
:confused: I'm sorry. Not following.
Can you be more specific than "a commandment"?

so, are you telling me that the 10 commandments apply only to people worshipping the Author?
The 10 commandments were given to Israel.
The principles on which the commandments are based apply to all people.

So, how do you know murder is more wrong than working on Saturdays, if the Bible commandments are not applicable to unbelievers?
Did I say that? Perhaps you are reading more into what I said.

Why do people rallying against abortion show crosses and invoke Jesus, when moral things coming from that source are not applicable to us?
Yup. You did read more into what I said.
I said, You aren't a godly person, so I don't expect you would take time out for worship.
In other words, I don't expect you to be on the team that collects my garbage, if you are not employed with Sanitation Services. :shrug:

Wouldn’t’ be like rallying against lies, by invoking Pinocchio, and the dangers of growing a big nose if we lie?
You are running with a misunderstanding. Perhaps back up a bit.

other question: if a worshipping Christian works on Saturdays, while another Christian shoots a little baby in the head, would you rate both acts to be equally evil? If not, why not?

ciao

- viole
What I consider evil, is not evil, just because I consider it evil.
What is evil... is the question.
I might consider it evil for you not to greet me on the street. Another person might not consider that evil. What is evil? Disobeying God is evil.... but you don't believe that, and you claim there is no God. So, to you, that's cool. Not evil.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
Thanks. Could you explain it to me please... especially the phrase 'The one who loves me will be loved by my Father'?
 

Oeste

Well-Known Member
Who "owns" the Sabbath?
No that is not correct at all and your post does not make any sense. How can a day own the Sabbath?
That was my question to you. I totally agree that it makes no sense, but that's exactly what you are arguing.

Your argument is not that we don't keep a Sabbath every 7 days. Your argument is that we don't keep our Sabbath on a Saturday.

So the DAY of the Sabbath has become more important to you then the fact that we give our 7th Day to the Lord.

Is this NOT what you are saying?

If so, then it is the Day that owns the Sabbath, because the DAY, in your mind, is "Lord of the Sabbath". If the Lord still owns the Sabbath, then the Lord can accept ANY 7th Day we give to Him because he is the Lord of the Sabbath. If it's the DAY that is Lord, then it is only SATURDAY that is acceptable, because only 7th Days that fall on Saturdays are acceptable.

Do you understand the difference?

Does God command Saturday worship?

God does and God says that His holy day that he blessed for all mankind in the seventh day of the week in Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:10.

Is it you or is it God that states the 7th day is Saturday?

From my reading of scriptures, it states the 7th day is left to the reader, or to the culture. The culture here is Judaism, so it's going to be Saturday. But then you say this is "universal for mankind". That's a whole different story. Christians are not asked to be Judeo-centric. They are asked to be God-centric. If you have scripture that disagrees with this, please post it.

So if we are God-centric, then the 7th Day is going to mean Saturday for some, Sunday for some, and even revolving days for others.

Do you understand the difference here? The day belongs to the Lord. It is his gift to us. He's not gifting us Saturday, and he's not commanding Saturday worship.

The Sabbath is not any day of the week according to the scriptures. Exodus 20:10 defines the Sabbath day as the seventh day of the week agreeing with Genesis 2:1-3.

The Sabbath IS any day of the week. It all depends on when you start your count. In Europe, the first day of the week is MONDAY. So you're 6th day is Saturday and your 7th Day is SUNDAY. This is NOT based on the Hebrew calendar but it is based ENTIRELY on the WORD OF GOD.

If Pharoah humbled himself before God and decided to celebrate the Sabbath, then his Sabbath, IF HE IS FOLLOWING THE BIBLICAL COMMAND, will ROTATE according to the Egyptians' 10 DAY week. This allows it to fall on ANY day according to the Hebrew calendar. The Romans also had a 10 day week before they switched to a 7 day week. If they had been following the word of God, then their Sabbath Day would have rotated just like the Egyptians. Even so, it may have not have fell on the same day, as the Egyptians may have started on a different day then the Romans!

If your theory of a "universal observance of the Sabbath starting with creation" is correct, it's not the DAY the Sabbath is celebrated, but only that the Sabbath be celebrated every 7th day that is important.

So celebrating a Sabbath on a Monday or Tuesday would not make their Sabbath celebration ungodly, it would simply make it correct according to their calendar and culture.

So, if the Sabbath is for all mankind as you claim, then we can expect the Sabbath to fall on various days of the week, depending on that culture's weekly calendar.

Does 7 creation days = a 7 day week?

Creation in 7 days would NOT mean 7 days are a week. It would simply mean that God created the universe in LESS than a week, if your week is 10 days, and that it took him a little MORE than a week, if your week happens to be 5.

The time period for a creative day is simply undefined period in scripture. We know the Jews associate a "day" as the period of sunset to sunset, but it does not mean God views a "day" as the same. So it could mean the Jewish sunset to sunset, but it doesn't have to mean the Jewish sunset to sunset, and Israel did not exist at the time of creation.

Your argument is based ENTIRELY on following Jewish culture, but a biblical day is not based on Jewish culture, it is based on the WORD OF GOD. The word of God does not define the term "week", it does not define what the first day or last day of a "week" is. However, it does tell us how the Jews adopted the word of God to their calendar.

This may seem trivial, but it's important.

If we are to be Judeo-centric, then we must follow the Hebrew calendar. Christians will spiritually point to Jerusalem much the same way Muslims physically point to Mecca. However, if we are God-centric, then it's pretty clear each culture is free to use its own calendar, allowing the 1st and 7th day to start and fall where they may.

Do you see and understand the difference here? I'm not arguing against a 7 day week, nor am I saying a 7 day week is incorrect. I'm just saying a 7 day week that falls on Saturday is not compelled.

SUNDAY WORSHIP IS NOT THE LORD'S DAY

The term "the Lord's day" was used by some in the early Church as a reference to Sunday worship in celebration of the resurrection of Jesus. It comes from a scripture in the bible found in Revelation 1

Almost, but not quite correct.

The Lord's Day is NOT a reference to "Sunday worship". When you say "Sunday worship" it is easy for critics like 2ndPillar to disparage the Christian church as worshipping Sunday and to make false associations with "the day of the sun" and bring in nonsense about Constantine :rolleyes:.

It's a favored argument of Sabbath keepers, but has no basis in fact. Scripture clearly shows that Christians held their convocation on the first day of the week in honor of Christ's resurrection. The celebration continues up to the present day. We can see this in the writing of 2nd century Christians:



Chapter XXVI.—No salvation to the Jews except through Christ. (Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, mid 2nd century):
And I replied, “I do not say so; but those who have persecuted and do persecute Christ, if they do not repent, shall not inherit anything on the holy mountain. But the Gentiles, who have believed on Him, and have repented of the sins which they have committed, they shall receive the inheritance along with the patriarchs and the prophets, and the just men who are descended from Jacob, even although they neither keep the Sabbath, nor are circumcised, nor observe the feasts. Assuredly they shall receive the holy inheritance of God. For God speaks by Isaiah thus: ‘I, the Lord God, have called Thee in righteousness, and will hold Thine hand, and will strengthen Thee; and I have given Thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles, to open the eyes of the blind, to bring out them that are bound from the chains, and those who sit in darkness from the prison-house.’2013 And again: ‘Lift up a standard2014 for the people; for, lo, the Lord has made it heard unto the end of the earth. Say ye to the daughters of Zion, Behold, thy Saviour has come; having His reward, and His work before His face: and He shall call it a holy nation, redeemed by the Lord. (Justin Martyr)


Cyprian (~210 - 258 AD), born a pagan to a wealth family, who later converted. became a bishop in Carthage, and died a martyr because he would not denounce Christ and accept the Roman gods, says this:

For in respect of the observance of the eighth day of the Jewish circumcision of the flesh, a sacrament was given beforehand in shadow and in usage; but when Christ came, it was fulfilled in truth. For because the eighth day, that is, the first day after the Sabbath, was to be that on which the Lord should rise again, and should quicken us, and give us circumcision of the spirit, the eighth day, that is the first day after the Sabbath, and the Lord's Day, went before in the figure; which figure ceased when by and by the truth came and spiritual circumcision was given to us

— Cyprian, Letter LVIII



So the Lord's Day is the early Church's reference to the resurrection of Jesus Christ, which just happened to fall on the 1st day of the week, which we associate with Sunday.

And as Justyn Martyr points out, these gentile Christians did not keep the Sabbath, were not circumcised, and did not observe the feast, even though they were free to do so.
 
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nPeace

Veteran Member
Go to your profile page. Click on preferences. Click on default. Voila, color! Name of poster being quoted is in orange. That is why have d to see in blac and white.
Thank you so much. That looks so much better. I can even see the links as well.
Man, you just saved 30% of my eyesight. :trophy:
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Explain John 15:10 to me, if you don't mind. Sorry, if you already did.
I may have touched on this before, but it doesn't hurt to attempt to do so again as different insights may arise on different days. I really like this verse personally, and it speaks a lot of truth to me in the way I approach my spiritual life.

"If you keep my commandments you will abide in my love". Yes, of course. A spiritually awakened life has live on a spiritually healthy diet. If you've once tasted good health, after having lived in poor health, you have to follow good healthy practices on order to remain healthy.

You can't become a couch potato, eat nothing but fast foods, twinkies and ice cream, and expect to "abide in good health" for very long. That lifestyle will take over and consume you, and you will no longer be healthy and fit. And then you become trapped in it, making it hard to break free from that habitual cycle.

Spiritually speaking, which is the context of Jesus' words here, following the commandments, are following good, healthy, proven spiritual practices as a spiritual diet; love others as yourself, do not lie, do not steal, set you mind on positive spiritual things, avoid negativities, watch what you put into your mind, and so forth. All these things are part of his teachings, and when we practice them, we can remain healthy spiritually, or as he put it, "abide in my love". Abiding, or remaining in the Love of God, is a matter of keeping ourselves healthy spiritually.

The point is, this is not about earning God's love. Anymore than waking up in the morning is earning life. There is nothing we do or did to deserve it or win it. But how we experience it, either in misery or liberation, is what we do with it. God's Love is already everyone's. Just as health and life is already everyone's, but how we live it, is up to us and our choices. Do we avail ourselves of this free gift and live life abundantly, or do we squander it for a handful of meaningless trinkets?

Does this help explain it better for you?
 

Oeste

Well-Known Member
On the seventh day of creation, all of creation was at rest with God.

It's important to realize this meant creation enjoyed the harmony of God's rest. It was a gift from God. It did not mean the other 6 days were to be a toil on creation. The first 6 days were not made for mankind's toil.

Not sure what your point is here. Jesus says the Sabbath was made for mankind in Mark 2:27. Mankind was made on the sixth day of the creation week according to Genesis 1:26-31 and rested with God on the seventh day that God rested from His finished work of creation that he blessed and made a holy day of rest for all mankind in Genesis 2:1-3.

Well, it comes down to how you read the command.

You state we are to keep the 4th Commandment, but we have all lived a long life under God's grace, So much so, that I fear some Sabbath keepers have not truly appreciated how blessed we are to live under grace.

Now, I have read your comments, and you do appear to have a great grasp of what it means to live under grace. But then you attempt to yoke us into the Law, specifically the 4th commandment, so let's take a look at what that means.

“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God.

So if you are keeping the 4th commandment, you are keeping the entirety of it, not just the "rest" part.

This means no 3 day holidays, unless two of those days involve some sort of work.

@2ndpillar
@3rdAngel

Is this correct?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
I may have touched on this before, but it doesn't hurt to attempt to do so again as different insights may arise on different days. I really like this verse personally, and it speaks a lot of truth to me in the way I approach my spiritual life.

"If you keep my commandments you will abide in my love". Yes, of course. A spiritually awakened life has live on a spiritually healthy diet. If you've once tasted good health, after having lived in poor health, you have to follow good healthy practices on order to remain healthy.

You can't become a couch potato, eat nothing but fast foods, twinkies and ice cream, and expect to "abide in good health" for very long. That lifestyle will take over and consume you, and you will no longer be healthy and fit. And then you become trapped in it, making it hard to break free from that habitual cycle.

Spiritually speaking, which is the context of Jesus' words here, following the commandments, are following good, healthy, proven spiritual practices as a spiritual diet; love others as yourself, do not lie, do not steal, set you mind on positive spiritual things, avoid negativities, watch what you put into your mind, and so forth. All these things are part of his teachings, and when we practice them, we can remain healthy spiritually, or as he put it, "abide in my love". Abiding, or remaining in the Love of God, is a matter of keeping ourselves healthy spiritually.

The point is, this is not about earning God's love. Anymore than waking up in the morning is earning life. There is nothing we do or did to deserve it or win it. But how we experience it, either in misery or liberation, is what we do with it. God's Love is already everyone's. Just as health and life is already everyone's, but how we live it, is up to us and our choices. Do we avail ourselves of this free gift and live life abundantly, or do we squander it for a handful of meaningless trinkets?

Does this help explain it better for you?
Thanks for trying, but no, you are not helping. You are talking. Saying a lot, but not explaining Jesus' words. Perhaps explaining your views.

If you observe my commandments, you will remain in my love
IF. I am a programmer. When the "statement" is used, there is a condition.
Does that apply here? Yes. IF you observe my commandments THEN...
Jesus says, to remain in God's love, one must obey his commandment.
These statements, are usually followed by ELSE... Otherwise.
It's that simple.

It's like when Jesus said at John 8:31-32 - “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
If not... Well.
Our being disciples of Christ, is dependent on remaining in Jesus word. It's conditional.
There are no buts.

Our, remaining in God's love is dependent on our being obedient to Christ's commands.

However, I understand that you have your views, and you are going to try supporting those views.
I think quite a number of young people, who ask you that question might not want to ask you anything afterward, though.
The scriptures are not as complicated, as some people tend to make them. I think this is a main reason many young ones are lost.
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
I was trying to follow. What @Kenny is saying... I believe, is that the seventh day has not ended. In other words, mankind has not gone into an eighth, ninth, tenth, ... day. We are still in the seventh... from God's perspective. I agree with that.
Sadly though that has no basis in scripture. There is no such thing as an eight, nine or ten day week. There is only seven days in a week and the bible states that "the seventh day" is the Sabbath of the Lord your God in Exodus 20:10. That is what the scriptures say word for word.
Hebrews 4:3 For we who have exercised faith do enter into the rest, just as he has said: “So I swore in my anger, ‘They will not enter into my rest,’” although his works were finished from the founding of the world.
According to the scripture context here Hebrews 4:3 is not saying that no one entered into Gods rest. Hebrews 3:8-19 through to Hebrews 4:1-11 states that Gods people in the wilderness did not enter into Gods rest which is defined in Hebrews 4:3-4 as "the seventh day Sabbath finished since the foundation of the world referring back to Genesis 2:1-3 because of their sins and unbelief. Note also what the very scripture you are quote is saying; in Hebrews 4:3 "For we who believe have entered into rest..." (present tense). Hebrews 4 is not talking about a future rest to come. It is talking about entering into Gods rest by believing and following what Gods Word says in the present tense now! By not believing and following Gods Word we do not enter into Gods rest is the context of Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4. This also agrees with the immediate context of Hebrews 4:1-4 "1, Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2, For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3, For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4, For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
3rdAngel said: Don’t you believe that Hebrews 4 means that everyday is Gods Sabbath (post # 214) in agreement with Kenny? The scriptures do not teach that everyday is the Sabbath. It teaches that "the seventh day" is Gods creation Sabbath in Exodus 20:10 in agreement with Genesis 2:1-3 which is what the scriptures say word for word. To claim that everyday is the Sabbath day is the read into the scriptures what is not written in the scriptures.
Your response here..
3rdAngel, where did you read, in Exodus 20:10, Gods creation Sabbath. Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to Jehovah your God. You must not do any work, neither you nor your son nor your daughter nor your slave man nor your slave girl nor your domestic animal nor your foreign resident who is inside your settlements. This is the weekly Sabbath day, and is not related to the Seventh day God rested. I think you are of the view that the six creative days were each a 24 hour day. Am I correct? If so, I have a question. How long was the day God created the heavens and the earth? Genesis 2:4
Exodus 20:10 defines Gods creation Sabbath as the "seventh day" of the week. "But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God". Exodus 20:11 is a reference back to creation and Genesis 2:1-3. " For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and made it holy." I am not sure if you are aware @nPeace but there are many different types of sabbaths in the old covenant. They are not all the same.

more to come...
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
3rdAngel said: According to the scriptures, the night and the daylight are one day in Genesis 1:3-5
Your response here...
According to the scriptures, one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:8
Not quite sure what you are trying to say here. Genesis 1:3-5 that shows that the creation day us the night and the day is not the same as 2 Peter 3:8 that is saying God is outside of time and eternal and that just because He has not come yet and people are scoffing does not mean God is not coming for his people but is not willing that anyone be lost but that all should come to repentance and be saved.
3rdAngel said: Why would God require the Egyptians, or the Canaanites to keep the Sabbath? They did not believe or obey Gods Words and were lost in theirs sins and unbelief and because of these reasons were not Gods people.
Your response here...
Are you saying that the Israelites believed and obeyed God's word? Nor according to scripture. In fact, of them, God said... They are an obstinate - stiff-necked - people , and he did not choose them due to any righteousness on their part. In fact, he would have exterminated them, had it not been for the promise to Abraham. Deuteronomy 9:6 And you must know that it is not for your righteousness that Jehovah your God is giving you this good land to take possession of it; for you are a stiff-necked people
Not always. I am saying that the name Israel is a name given by God His people who believe and obey God's Word. Not all believed and obeyed as shown in the scriptures for it is written they are not all Israel that are of Israel. (Romans 9:6-8).
May I ask... Why do you keep saying "God commanded us[ to keep the Sabbath as His people..."? That one has got me. God commanded the Israelites because he chose them as his people, and that was a sign between them as part of the agreement - the covenant God made with them. Yes, his rest day is holy, and they were privileged as his people, to enter into it... if they were obedient. They failed. They broke the covenant - the agreement. The nations around... everyone else, that is, did not have that privilege. To do so, one had to join the Israelites, ...or be a captives among them.
I see you still have a lot of catching up to do on your posts. As posted earlier according to the new covenant scriptures, Gods Israel in the new covenant are no longer those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham (Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29 and Galatians 3:28-29) but are now all those who are born again of the Spirit of God (see John 3:3-7; compare 1 John 3:4-10 and Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4) into Gods new covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27). Therefore, Gods Israel according to the scriptures in the new covenant are now all those who through faith believe and follow Gods Word and we are all now one in Christ (Romans 10:11-13; Colossians 3:11). Gentile believers have been grafted in with Jewish believers (Romans 11:13-27). If we are not a part of Gods Israel in the new covenant we have no part in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 (further scripture support provided in post # 75 linked). God never made His new covenant with Gentiles (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27) according to the scriptures.

more to come...
 
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3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
On this matter of Sunday worship... When did the apostles have meetings for worship? Here, they are meeting... Acts of the Apostles 2:1 Now while the day of the Festival of Pentecost was in progress, they were all together at the same place. What day was that? Leviticus 23:16 You will count off 50 days until the day after the seventh Sabbath, and then you should present a new grain offering to Jehovah. That would be Sunday, wasn't it? In the same book, of Acts, we read... just a few verses after... And day after day they were in constant attendance in the temple with a united purpose - Acts of the Apostles 2:46 So, to the early Christians, was the day, the important thing? Or was worshiping God everyday the important thing? They were the true followers of Christ Jesus - true Christians, and they were not focused on worshiping God on any one particular day. what does that tell us?
According to the scriptures after the death and the resurrection of Jesus the disciples met together every day of the week breaking bread and also continued keeping the Sabbath according (see Acts 2:46-37; Act 17:2). The disciples meeting every day of the week does not make every day of the week a holy day of rest. Neither does it mean that Gods 10 commandments are now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. Sunday worship as a replacement for Gods 4th commandment is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus given in Matthew 15:3-9. We should worship God every day of the week. However, what Jesus is saying here is that we worship God by believing and obeying what Gods Word says and if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God (Matthew 15:3-9) and our hearts are far from God. Jesus is calling us all out from following man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God back to His Word to worship Him in Spirit and in truth (John 4:23-24; John 17:17; John 6:63; John 8:31-36; Revelation 18:1-5; 1 John 2:3-4).

more to come...
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Yes, they are no longer those born in the flesh. How did that happen? Colossians 2:13-17; Ephesians 2:11-16 He kindly forgave us all our trespasses and erased the handwritten document that consisted of decrees and was in opposition to us. He has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the torture stake. ...Therefore, do not let anyone judge you about what you eat and drink or about the observance of a festival or of the new moon or of a sabbath. Those things are a shadow of the things to come, but the reality belongs to the Christ. What does that mean? Galatians 3:10-14; Galatians 3:17-25 ...the Law is not based on faith. Rather, “anyone who does these things will live by means of them.” Christ purchased us, releasing us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: “Accursed is every man hung upon a stake.” This was so that the blessing of Abraham would come to the nations by means of Christ Jesus... The Law, which came into being 430 years later, does not invalidate the covenant previously made by God, so as to abolish the promise. For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has kindly given it to Abraham through a promise. Why, then, the Law? It was added to make transgressions manifest, until the offspring should arrive to whom the promise had been made; and it was transmitted through angels by the hand of a mediator. However, before the faith arrived, we were being guarded under law, being handed over into custody, looking to the faith that was about to be revealed. So the Law became our guardian leading to Christ, so that we might be declared righteous through faith. But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a guardian.
We are born of the Spirit by believing and obeying what Gods Word says (John 3:3-7; compare 1 John 3:4-9; 1 John 2:3-4; James 2:17-26; Galatians 5:16) . Gods salvation is a gift of God's grace (Ephesians 2:8-9) through the death of Gods dear son Jesus who paid the penalty of our sins which is death (Romans 6:23). We receive this gift of Gods grace however through faith (Ephesians 2:8) and this saving faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17. Therefore according to the scriptures saving faith is believing and obeying Gods Word from the heart in those who are born of God into His new covenant promise to walk in His Spirit and obey His Word (see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27). According to the scriptures Jesus says unless a man in born again he cannot see the kingdom of heaven (John 3:3-7). That is because those who are born again do not practice sin (1 John 3:6-9). Sin is defined in the scriptures are breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments of which Gods 4th commandments is a part of *see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and according to James in James 2:10-11 if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them. So we show our faith according to the scriptures by what we believe and what we do. Obedience to Gods Word therefore is the fruit of faith. Anything less according to James in James 2:17-26 is the dead faith of devils and is why Paul says in Romans 3:31 Faith does not abolish Gods law it establishes it in those who believe. There is not a single scripture in all of the bible that says Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. Sunday worship is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus given in Matthew 15:3-9 and breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments according to the scriptures is sin (1 John 3:4). Sin will keep all those who knowingly practice it out of Gods kingdom.
Can we be part of the new covenant if we hold on to the decrees of the old covenant? Not according to scripture. Colossians 2:14 - ...and erased the handwritten document that consisted of decrees and was in opposition to us. He has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the torture stake God's new covenant was made with a little flock. Luke 12:32 Have no fear, little flock, for your Father has approved of giving you the Kingdom. That covenant was made on the day of Pentecost, Nisan 14, 33 C.E. Luke 22:28-30 However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom...
According the scriptures Gods new covenant promise to those who believe and follow His Word is having His laws written in the heart through the Spirit to love and obey God (see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-36 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. This leads the believer to obey Gods law not to break Gods laws. According to the scriptures if we break Gods law and think we know God we are not telling the truth (1 John 2:3-4).

Take Care.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
You have not shown that keeping the Sabbath is a commandment for Christians. It was given to Israel in the Mosaic Covenant. You speak of commandments as if it is understood that the Sabbath is one of those commandments for Christians but you do not show that it is.
Well that claim has no truth in it Brian. I have posted Gods Words which are Gods Word not my words that you deny with your Words that are not Gods. So your argument I guess is with God not me who words you choose not to believe in order to justify your sins *1 John 3:4. So we will agree to disagree on your claims here.
We all sin and under the New Covenant we are not counted as guilty for our sins. (Psalm 32:2, Romans 4:8) Our righteousness comes by faith. Jeremiah 23:5 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. 6 In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely. And this is the name by which he will be called: The Lord is our righteousness.’ We don't earn our own righteousness through keeping the law, especially when it is a law that we are not asked to keep. Sanctification/ making us more Christ like, is an ongoing process of God working in us to change us into the image (2Cor 3:18) but the saving of us was done by Jesus on the cross.
Agreed our righteousness comes by faith. However, according to the scriptures if our faith does not have the fruit of obedience then all we have according to James in James 2:17-26 is the dead faith of devils who will not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Paul agrees with Jesus stating that faith does not abolish our need to obey what Gods Word says from the heart by saying in Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law." Genuine faith therefore believes and obeys what Gods Word says. Anything less is the dead faith of devils and is the fruit of those who need to be born again to walk in God's Spirit (see John 3:3-7; compare 1 John 3:4-9; 1 John 2:3-4 and Galatians 5:16). If we are still practicing known unrepentant sin we do not know God according to the scriptures (see Romans 6:1-23; Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4 and 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:4-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14 and Matthew 7:13-23).

Take Care Brian.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
@Everyone.. out of time now and will catch up latter God willing. Apologies if I missed you this time round. May God bless you as you seek to know Him through His Words...
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Thanks for trying, but no, you are not helping. You are talking. Saying a lot, but not explaining Jesus' words. Perhaps explaining your views.
Isn't everyone including yourself, explaining what they believe Jesus meant? I very much feel that I am explaining Jesus' words, as understood though my own life experience and understanding of his teachings from an informed theological perspective.
If you observe my commandments, you will remain in my love
IF. I am a programmer. When the "statement" is used, there is a condition.
Does that apply here? Yes. IF you observe my commandments THEN...
Jesus says, to remain in God's love, one must obey his commandment.
These statements, are usually followed by ELSE... Otherwise.
It's that simple.
I don't see anything different than what I said. You already have the program. In order for it to run correctly, you simply have to follow the guidelines. If you want to maintain good health, you need to eat healthy food. It's really no more complex than this.

Perhaps you are missing that it doesn't say you will gain my love? It says you will "remain" in it. Do you believe remain in his love, to mean you earn that, that God controls that and will boot you out if you don't please him? I read it as "you will remain healthy". We enjoy the love of God, when we avail ourselves of it. Nothing more complex than that.
It's like when Jesus said at John 8:31-32 - “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
If not... Well.
Again, exactly what I said. If you wish to remain healthy, eat your fruits and vegetables and quit a diet of nothing but cookies and cake. If you eat properly, then you will be healthy, and happy, or the "truth will set you free". That simple.

Our being disciples of Christ, is dependent on remaining in Jesus word. It's conditional.
There are no buts.
Our remaining spiritually healthy is conditional. But this has zero to do with earning God's love and acceptance of us. God's love is unconditional. Our taking advantage of that, is in fact a choice. But God does not withhold his love, or our health from us. We simply choose to accept it, or throw it away. It's there all the time, like electricity behind the light switch. All you need to do is put it in the right position for it to give you light.

This is very, very different than believing we need to earn God's love, which is what legalists teach. You need to be "good enough" for God to Love you. Contrast this with the unconditional love that I know is true. You already have it 100% of the way, at all times, unconditionally. But you can through not following the right ways of living, block it off from yourself, and suffer as the result. But that's you doing that to yourself. Not God doing it. All you need to do is stop doing that thing, let it go, and God is right there, never having gone anywhere. All that had happened, is you looked away. No more complex than this.

Our, remaining in God's love is dependent on our being obedient to Christ's commands.
Our continuing to be able to reap the spiritual benefits of God's Love, is dependent upon availing ourselves of it, or not. You already have life in your body. You're not having to do anything to have it. But if you want to feel the full benefit of that Life in you, then you need to do right with your body, your mind, and your spirit. It's that simple. It's already yours. Use it, or lose it. God doesn't take it from you. You throw it away. Very different understanding than "conditional love".
However, I understand that you have your views, and you are going to try supporting those views.
I think quite a number of young people, who ask you that question might not want to ask you anything afterward, though.
Why wouldn't they? You feel they are hung up on the idea that the have to seek God's approval and they can't comprehend that they really don't have to do anything to earn it? It doesn't make sense to them that it's a matter of Grace, not buying God's love through works?

What you don't understand it simply this. You already have everything you need to be Free. You just haven't learned how to let it do that for you, of itself. The only thing you have to do, is get out of the way and let it. "Keeping the commandments", is nothing more than you simply getting yourself out of the way. If you hate your neighbor, you are getting in the way of God. It's about removing obstacles to allow what is already there to breathe that eternal Life through you. It's that simple, yet that hard for our clinging egos that feel it needs to do something to gain something, to let go of.
The scriptures are not as complicated, as some people tend to make them. I think this is a main reason many young ones are lost.
That's right. I think you make it too complicated. Jesus taught it's not in the works we do, but in the surrender of the ego and simply following that Love that is in our hearts which is a free gift from God to all, at all times, unconditionally.
 
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2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Well, it comes down to how you read the command.

You state we are to keep the 4th Commandment, but we have all lived a long life under God's grace, So much so, that I fear some Sabbath keepers have not truly appreciated how blessed we are to live under grace.

Now, I have read your comments, and you do appear to have a great grasp of what it means to live under grace. But then you attempt to yoke us into the Law, specifically the 4th commandment, so let's take a look at what that means.

“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God.

So if you are keeping the 4th commandment, you are keeping the entirety of it, not just the "rest" part.

This means no 3 day holidays, unless two of those days involve some sort of work.

@2ndpillar
@3rdAngel

Is this correct?
I am thinking that the U.S. has been blessed up until recent history, but that Satan's minions, the "woke" are quickly trying to bring the U.S. to the depths of hell. When I was growing up in the 60s, even the Roman church proffered the 10 commandments, although they had done a switch with the "Lord's day", and the plebians, thought they were keeping the Commandments. Now go to other parts of the world, such as Europe, the nations of Daniel 2:35, they make no pretense, and they are devolving into a deeper sort of hell, which will result in them being "crushed all at the same time". And yes, one is to work 6 days of the week. I am afraid your "grace", the false gospel of grace/lawlessness, of the false prophet Paul, is but a wide path to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13-15) based on the "false prophets", who say you will be saved if you call "Lord, Lord"(Matthew 7:21-23). Yeshua will simply tell these "who practice lawlessness", "I never knew you". Keep in mind that the Roman emperor Constantine initiated keep the "day of the sun", with regard to his god Sol Invictus, as the day of rest, in 321 A.D., whereas no one could buy or sell, for the shops and government would be closed. Now known in today's world as the "blue laws".
 
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nPeace

Veteran Member
Again, for brevity...
Under the Mosaic law of the old covenant not only did God give His people the 10 commandments like he does for us in the new covenant, he gave them shadow laws for the atonement (forgiveness) of sin that were linked to the laws of an earthly Sanctuary and the Levitical Priesthood and animal sacrifices and sin offerings that were all prophetic pointing to Jesus as the promised Messiah and Gods true sacrifice for the sin of the world that was to come in Jesus (John 1:29; Hebrews 10:10) and His work of salvation on our behalf in the heavenly Sanctuary standing in the presence of God for us as our true great high Priest (see Hebrews 7:1-15; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-29 and Hebrews 10:1-22). These “shadow laws were all pointing to Jesus coming and true sacrifice and atonement for our sins by His death (the wages of our sins – Romans 6:23). So that through the promised Christ in Jesus all who believe in His Words can have God’s forgiveness of sins and everlasting life (John 3:16; John 3:36). We no longer keep the old covenant laws of atonement because those shadow laws pointing to Jesus have now been fulflilled in Christ to who they pointed to. On the other hand Gods 10 commandments are written on stone with the finger of God and do not change. The are Gods eternal laws that give us the knowledge of good and evil and the knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172) and according to James in James 2:10-11 if we break anyone of them we strand guilty before God of sin.
I don't recall Paul saying some laws were "shadow laws", and others were not. Can you quote just the scripture please... without commentary.
Paul says, "the Law".
Hebrews 10:1 For since the Law has a shadow of the good things to come...

Did you not read... Galatians 3:19 Why, then, the Law? It was added to make transgressions manifest, until the offspring should arrive...
until the offspring should arrive

Galatians 3:24-25 - So the Law became our guardian leading to Christ, so that we might be declared righteous through faith. But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a guardian.
now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a guardian

What does that say to you 3rdAngel?
What Law is Paul talking about? The Law, which came into being 430 years later... Galatians 3:17
What Law was that? You know it. Exodus 19:3-6; Exodus 20

Did you read Paul's words I quoted at Colossians 2:14-17?
16 Therefore, do not let anyone judge you about what you eat and drink or about the observance of a festival or of the new moon or of a sabbath. 17 Those things are a shadow of the things to come, but the reality belongs to the Christ.

Romans 7
6 But now we have been released from the Law, because we have died to that which restrained us, in order that we might be slaves in a new sense by the spirit and not in the old sense by the written code.
7 What, then, are we to say? Is the Law sin? Certainly not! Really, I would not have come to know sin had it not been for the Law. For example, I would not have known covetousness if the Law had not said: “You must not covet.”
we have been released from the Law


Romans 8:3 - What the Law was incapable of doing because it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending his own Son...

It's right there 3rdAngel. The same Law containing the command - Thou should not covet. That is the one Paul says is a "shadow law".

Romans 6:15-17 15, What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16, Know you not, that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey; whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?
Note: Being not under the law here means that we through Gods grace have been forgiven for our sins by Gods Grace (see earlier context of Romans 3:19). To be under the law here means to be standing before God guilty of sin and death. Paul is stating here just because we have received Gods forgiveness of sins through faith in Gods grace and mercy it means we should not continue in known unrepentant sin (God forbid – NO!) and if we continue in sin we will die and if we continue in right doing we will remain righteous before God.
You say, To be under the law here means to be standing before God guilty of sin and death...
Where did you read that, please?
I read... But now we have been released from the Law... Romans 7:6
I also read... For Christ is the end of the Law, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness. Romans 10:4
Again, I read... By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, in order to make the two groups in union with himself into one new man+ and to make peace... Ephesians 2:15
...and again, I read, the scriptures I quoted above, in Galatians.

All of these scriptures say the same thing.
You talk about grace, and yet, you don't appear to accept what all these scriptures bear out... namely...
Moreover, it is evident that by law no one is declared righteous with God, because “the righteous one will live by reason of faith.” Now the Law is not based on faith. Rather, “anyone who does these things will live by means of them.” Christ purchased us, releasing us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us... Galatians 3:11-13

They don't work together, 3rdAngel. You can't accept the weak thing that does not, and cannot accomplish what God wants, and claim to accept what God put in place to accomplish what he wants.
Romans 8:3 - What the Law was incapable of doing because it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending his own Son...
Would that not be like someone saying they must have the band aid used to stop them bleeding out, after the surgeon stitched up their wound?

I am not sure if you are SDA, but I think Paul's words apply here.
Romans 10
2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to accurate knowledge. 3 For because of not knowing the righteousness of God but seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the Law, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness.

That's quite serious, would you not agree?
Did you notice, Paul specifically said, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness?

I hope you got the point.
I hope this post makes a difference, because I think you basically are saying the same thing, in your other posts.
So, I don't think there is much more I can add.
I'll still take a look though, in case there is something new.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Hey guys

Getting back to the OP. Just wondering where is the scripture that says Gods 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus? May God bless you as you seek to know Him through His Word. If there is no scripture than are we by following the man-made teaching of Sunday worship while breaking Gods 4th commandment, going against the very warnings and teachings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9?

Take Care.
Many scriptures have been provided to show that the Law covenant ended with the "cross". That includes the 4th of the ten Words (commandments).

No scripture says we are commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day. That would fall under a doctrine of men if indeed it is commanded, but I don't think it is commanded.
Sunday, for many people is a convenient day for worship, since most people do not work on the Weekend. It became a traditional day for many.

However, many religions have days of worship, midweek, and weekends.
Some, almost daily. The day is not important to them.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
Who "owns" the Sabbath? That was my question to you. I totally agree that it makes no sense, but that's exactly what you are arguing.
Hello Oeste, I do not feel our discussion will be profitable if we continue to micro-quote me without addressing the full content of my posts as I do for you. That said, you did ask the question "Who owns the Sabbath?" I did answer this question in the content of my response to you that you did not post here in post # 435 linked, showing from the scriptures in Isaiah 58:31; Leviticus 19:30; Ezekiel 20:12; 20 and Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 that God claim ownership of the Sabbath day. You did not post this in your response here. You were trying to argue that what I was saying was that the day owns the Sabbath (post #434). That was not what I was saying at all and does not make sense.
Your argument is not that we don't keep a Sabbath every 7 days. Your argument is that we don't keep our Sabbath on a Saturday. So the DAY of the Sabbath has become more important to you then the fact that we give our 7th Day to the Lord. Is this NOT what you are saying?
No. Please read the OP and what the scriptures are saying that have been shared with you. My argument here is that there is no scripture in all of the bible that says Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. My argument here is that according to the scriptures, Sunday worship is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings given by Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. The scriptures do not state anywhere that Gods creation Sabbath of the 4th commandment is any day of the week like you are claiming here. Gods Words (not my words) state in the 4th commandment that "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God" in Exodus 20:10. According to the scriptures and biblical time, the seventh day Sabbath our time is Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. Gods Word therefore should be important to all of us because not believing and not following what Gods Word says is sin according to the scriptures (see 1 John 3:4; 1 John 2:3-4 and Romans 14:23) and all those who knowingly practice known unrepentant sin will not enter into Gods kingdom according to the scriptures (see Matthew 7:13-23; 1 John 3:4-10; 1 John 2:3-4 and Hebrews 10:26-31).
If so, then it is the Day that owns the Sabbath, because the DAY, in your mind, is "Lord of the Sabbath". If the Lord still owns the Sabbath, then the Lord can accept ANY 7th Day we give to Him because he is the Lord of the Sabbath. If it's the DAY that is Lord, then it is only SATURDAY that is acceptable, because only 7th Days that fall on Saturdays are acceptable. Do you understand the difference?
Your post here makes no sense. As posted earlier to your question "Who owns the Sabbath?" God does. As already shown from the scriptures in Isaiah 58:31; Leviticus 19:30; Ezekiel 20:12; 20 and Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 God claim ownership of the Sabbath day calling the Sabbath, My holy day; My Sabbath; My Rest. You did not post this in your response here which was already addressed in the post you are micro-quoting me and not responding to. You were trying to argue that what I was saying was that the day owns the Sabbath (post #434). That was not what I was saying at all and does not make sense.
Does God command Saturday worship? Is it you or is it God that states the 7th day is Saturday? From my reading of scriptures, it states the 7th day is left to the reader, or to the culture. The culture here is Judaism, so it's going to be Saturday. But then you say this is "universal for mankind". That's a whole different story. Christians are not asked to be Judeo-centric. They are asked to be God-centric. If you have scripture that disagrees with this, please post it. So if we are God-centric, then the 7th Day is going to mean Saturday for some, Sunday for some, and even revolving days for others. Do you understand the difference here? The day belongs to the Lord. It is his gift to us. He's not gifting us Saturday, and he's not commanding Saturday worship. The Sabbath IS any day of the week. It all depends on when you start your count. In Europe, the first day of the week is MONDAY. So you're 6th day is Saturday and your 7th Day is SUNDAY. This is NOT based on the Hebrew calendar but it is based ENTIRELY on the WORD OF GOD.
According to the the scriptures Gods 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:3-17) that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) says "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God (note; the scripture does not say any day of the week like you are claiming here they state "the seventh day"): in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: why the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and made it holy." Sunday worship on the other hand is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings given by Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. The scriptures do not state anywhere that Gods creation Sabbath of the 4th commandment is any day of the week like you are claiming here. Gods Words (not my words) state in the 4th commandment that "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God" in Exodus 20:10. According to the scriptures and biblical time, the seventh day Sabbath our time is Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. Gods Word therefore should be important to all of us because not believing and not following what Gods Word says is sin according to the scriptures (see 1 John 3:4; 1 John 2:3-4 and Romans 14:23) and all those who knowingly practice known unrepentant sin will not enter into Gods kingdom according to the scriptures (see Matthew 7:13-23; 1 John 3:4-10; 1 John 2:3-4 and Hebrews 10:26-31). We are best to believe and follow what Gods Word says according to the scriptures (Romans 3:4) then to follow man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9. Jesus says here that those who do this are not worshiping God and their hearts are far from him. Its time to unlearn the lies we have all been taught from Sunday school. Jesus is calling His people back to His Word to worship Him in Spirit and in truth (John 4:23-24).

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