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what makes a Christian?

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I don't disagree. But to finish quoting James before the above quote, "Faith without works is dead". Just believing is not the point of faith.
I think that is a misapplication of what James talked about. Salvation is not by works lest any man should boast. Or, as Jesus said, "whoever believes will not be condemned". John 3
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I think that is a misapplication of what James talked about. Salvation is not by works lest any man should boast. Or, as Jesus said, "whoever believes will not be condemned". John 3
'believes' by enduring to the end - Matthew 24:13; Mark 13:13; John 5:24 - belief requires action - Matthew 24:14
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
'believes' by enduring to the end - Matthew 24:13; Mark 13:13; John 5:24 - belief requires action - Matthew 24:14
Yes... but for salvation, the action is confession as dictated by Jesus and Paul.

Now, if you are saved, put some action to it.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Yes... but for salvation, the action is confession as dictated by Jesus and Paul. Now, if you are saved, put some action to it.

I like that you mentioned "if" you are saved,.......
A lot of people I find have ignored the little word "if" found at 1 John 1:7 "if".
So, saved people need to endure to the end - Matthew 24:13-14
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I like that you mentioned "if" you are saved,.......
A lot of people I find have ignored the little word "if" found at 1 John 1:7 "if".
So, saved people need to endure to the end - Matthew 24:13-14
what is the "enduring" effort?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Wrong question, or at least poorly worded. Christians aren't real or fake, Christians are false or "True™ Christians", like in "True Scotsman".
According to Jesus I find Jesus informs us that there are both: genuine 'wheat' Christians and fake 'weed/tares' Christians.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Sorry, I don't know how to extract values from the passages you quoted, can you connect some dots for me?

With the prolog that I'm not a Christian nor skilled Biblical exegesis this is my person opinion.

> 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Just saying that I'm a Christian does not count. Actions matter.

> 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
> 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

> 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Further there's a question whether someone who does actions which appear superficially praiseworthy are in fact praiseworthy. The standard verse 24 sets out is putting into practice what is in the Sermon on the Mount. It can be argued that from another Bible verse it's the spirit of what is in the Sermon rather than necessarily literal obedience.
 
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DNB

Christian
What beliefs do you think makes someone a Christian?

I think it's all about accepting Christ as Lord:
  • Christ is God
  • Christ saves
Do you agree or disagree with this?

If so, why?

Can you think of anything else, that defines a Christian?
Being a Christian primarily requires repentance - one must be convicted of their sin first, in order to appreciate the need of salvation or a saviour.

One must subsequently believe that God is merciful, in order to accept the fact that by His grace, He has offered a means towards salvation that doesn't require perfection, but mercy. Salvation is by faith - faith that God is loving, compassionate and merciful, and that there was a man on earth who loved his Father (God) with all his heart, mind and soul - Christ was perfect.

And, for this reason, Jesus has been exalted to God's right-hand side so that he may receive worship and lordship for solely his reverence and devotion towards his Maker, God the father.

And fourthly, it is blasphemy to claim that Jesus was God - God does not either obey or love Himself, in order to attain to perfection, in order to placate His own wrath - principles that are nothing less than complete delirium.
 
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1213

Well-Known Member
I wonder what is to disagree with "Christ is the end of the Law " as found at Romans 10:4 _____________
I find Jesus is speaking at Matthew 5:17 that Jesus says that he came to fulfill the Law.
I also find that Paul at Romans 7:6 said we have been delivered/released from the Law.....
Sure Paul could agree at Romans 7:16 the Law was fine after all the Golden Rule comes from at Leviticus 19:18.
So, Jews under the Mosaic Law if applied properly/ lawfully the Law was fine - 1 Timothy 1:8-11
Christians apply and consent to Christ's ransom as the means for salvation - Galatians 2:16; Galatians 3:13
Please notice 'were' is in the 'past tense' that is used by Paul at Galatians 4:5
And Paul wrote at Ephesians 2:15 that Jesus abolished the Law....
Paul also wrote at Colossians 2:14 that the Law was erased.....

If law is not valid, nothing is wrong, and there is no need for salvation.

I think the law is valid. But, we should not be under it. And I think it means, if we do what the law says because we must do so, against our own will, we are under it and we are not actually good and righteous, because we do just what we are commanded to do. If we obey the law because we understand it is good, then we are not under it. Then we are free people who voluntarily do what is good and right. And I think that is what God wants, free people who want to do good and right. Not people who do right against their own evil will.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think that is a misapplication of what James talked about. Salvation is not by works lest any man should boast. Or, as Jesus said, "whoever believes will not be condemned". John 3
I don't imagine a salvation of works whatsoever. That's not how I applied it. How I applied it is how James meant it, and how Jesus stated it, "By their fruits you shall know them". If you claim faith, your fruits will tells the truth of that faith. That's all that is meant.

Simply believing, is nothing. Belief that leads to transformation, is everything. In which case, it's not about beliefs, it's about fruits. Fruits is where it at. Belief without fruit, is empty. Or as Paul put it so perfectly poetically,

"If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Do you agree with me now?
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yes, and with belief comes: action. Action as Jesus mentioned at Matthew 24:13; Mark 13:13 B
Plenty of people can make themselves martys and think that is what makes them followers of Christ.

The emphasis should be about bearing fruit in your life here and now, not "hanging on to death". That's too easily an easier path as a salvation of works. It's a way to fool yourself thinking you've actually cast off the old man and put on the new, when you have not.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
What beliefs do you think makes someone a Christian?

I think it's all about accepting Christ as Lord:

  • Christ is God
  • Christ saves
Do you agree or disagree with this?
Strongly disagree

If so, why?

Can you think of anything else, that defines a Christian?
@Eddi or any human NEVER gets to dictate anything about other humans their Faith

I can think of a much better definition,and will share it if you agree to the above
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
Strongly disagree


@Eddi or any human NEVER gets to dictate anything about other humans their Faith

I can think of a much better definition,and will share it if you agree to the above
I agree please share :D

But it is a valid thing to think about there must be some common defining thing, if only self identification?
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Wong calculations, wrong guesses does Not make the Bible as wrong, just the calculations or guesses as wrong.
Exactly. This is why we should not dismiss science saying the earth is 4.5 billion years old, when our guesses and calculations using the Bible only tell us it's 6000 years old.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
But it is a valid thing to think about there must be some common defining thing, if only self identification?
Well, to that I can agree. It's a valid thing.

But as many believers usually, esp. among
all Abrahamic Faiths, tend to superimpose their beliefs upon others their beliefs, as in the phrase "Jesus is the only way....for everyone"...and mind you, they flatly even refuse to add "In My Humble Opininion".

And when I observe and mirror back to them "You are extremely arrogant, to tell me this", they usually can't even see that, but a few did admit "well, but it is true, then I be arrogant, but I do insist in this"

I agree please share :D
But, I am glad you agree. So, I'll share my answer to "what makes a Christian"

My answer is simple:
"Only God knows what makes a Christian, and it might be different than just believing in Jesus, reading the Bible or going to Church"

It might even be that God (also) sees a true Muslim as a true Christian, or a true Hindu, or a true follower of Sai Baba, or an Atheist, or a Lucifer worshipper, or a Humanist, or those who pray to Mother Nature or ...
 
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URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
If law is not valid, nothing is wrong, and there is no need for salvation.
I think the law is valid. But, we should not be under it. And I think it means, if we do what the law says because we must do so, against our own will, we are under it and we are not actually good and righteous, because we do just what we are commanded to do. If we obey the law because we understand it is good, then we are not under it. Then we are free people who voluntarily do what is good and right. And I think that is what God wants, free people who want to do good and right. Not people who do right against their own evil will.

I find the Constitution of the Mosaic Law was only for one nation, the nation of ancient Israel.
Under the Law there were animal sacrifices so in order to keep the Law today one would be sacrificing animals.
Under the Law we find the Golden Rule at Leviticus 19:18. Love neighbor as one would love oneself.
Since Jesus fulfilled the Law (Romans 10:4) we are now under the Law of Christ - Galatians 6:2 B; 1 Corinthians 9:21
The Law of Christ contains something new Not under the Mosaic Law as found at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8.
Unlike the Israelites, those now under the Law of Christ would declare about Christ everywhere on Earth.
Plus, unlike the Golden Rule, Jesus gave a New Commandment as found at John 13:34; John 15:12.
We are now to love others as Jesus loved others. Have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.
In other words, we are now to love neighbor MORE than self, more than the Mosaic Law's Golden Rule.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
.......But as many believers usually, esp. among all Abrahamic Faiths, tend to superimpose their beliefs upon others their beliefs, as in the phrase "Jesus is the only way....for everyone"...and mind you, they flatly even refuse to add "In My Humble Opininion"...............

In my humble opinion I find Jesus humbly said he was the way, the truth and the life.
So, in my humble opinion why else would a person belong to a faith if he did Not believe it was the right faith _______
 
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