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Samson: For Christians Only

David Davidovich

Well-Known Member
Okay, the Jewish members dropped out of their version of this thread when we got to the part about the animals; the Jehovah's Witnesses decided not to address the version of this thread addressed to them, however, this version is addressed to Christians only.

Therefore, could Christians explain to me their understanding of the account of Samson in the book of Judges 13:1 through 16:31? Because not too long ago, I read the entire account actually for the first time after watching a scathing video criticism about Samson, however, my Bible reading raised more questions than I had before. So, I would appreciate it if you could answer my questions about this.

Some of my question were answred with satisfaction in the Jewish version of this thread, so rather than starting with Jugdes 14:1 my first question in this thread will start wtth Judges 14:5-6:

5 Samson went down to Timnah together with his father and mother. As they approached the vineyards of Timnah, suddenly a young lion came roaring toward him. 6 The Spirit of the Lord came powerfully upon him so that he tore the lion apart with his bare hands as he might have torn a young goat. But he told neither his father nor his mother what he had done.

Okay, isn't that a bit violent? Couldn't Samson have just punched the lion and knocked it out with his super strength? Also, couldn't the 'spirit of the lord' have just guided Samson with a more humane way of stopping this wild animal?
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
It looks as if Samson did not realise his strength until then, but why do you you think God or Samson should have been worried about the lion who was attacking Samson?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Okay, the Jewish members dropped out of their version of this thread when we got to the part about the animals; the Jehovah's Witnesses decided not to address the version of this thread addressed to them, however, this version is addressed to Christians only.

Therefore, could Christians explain to me their understanding of the account of Samson in the book of Judges 13:1 through 16:31? Because not too long ago, I read the entire account actually for the first time after watching a scathing video criticism about Samson, however, my Bible reading raised more questions than I had before. So, I would appreciate it if you could answer my questions about this.

Some of my question were answred with satisfaction in the Jewish version of this thread, so rather than starting with Jugdes 14:1 my first question in this thread will start wtth Judges 14:5-6:



Okay, isn't that a bit violent? Couldn't Samson have just punched the lion and knocked it out with his super strength? Also, couldn't the 'spirit of the lord' have just guided Samson with a more humane way of stopping this wild animal?
Only the most naïve person takes all these stories literally. Don't forget this was written around 600BC. It should be read in the same sort of way as way as Homer - tales of ancient heroes, full of exaggeration and imagery.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Okay, the Jewish members dropped out of their version of this thread when we got to the part about the animals; the Jehovah's Witnesses decided not to address the version of this thread addressed to them, however, this version is addressed to Christians only.

Therefore, could Christians explain to me their understanding of the account of Samson in the book of Judges 13:1 through 16:31? Because not too long ago, I read the entire account actually for the first time after watching a scathing video criticism about Samson, however, my Bible reading raised more questions than I had before. So, I would appreciate it if you could answer my questions about this.

Some of my question were answred with satisfaction in the Jewish version of this thread, so rather than starting with Jugdes 14:1 my first question in this thread will start wtth Judges 14:5-6:



Okay, isn't that a bit violent? Couldn't Samson have just punched the lion and knocked it out with his super strength? Also, couldn't the 'spirit of the lord' have just guided Samson with a more humane way of stopping this wild animal?

Principle (IMV)

1 Cor 14:32 JUB And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

ICB The spirits of prophets are under the control of the prophets themselves.

The anointing is from God but how it is expressed is controlled by the person who is anointed.

I think that if he had socked the lion on the nose, people would believe it was a nice made up story. IMO. In Africa, not too long ago, a proof of a man is when he killed a lion. More realistic than the proof of a man is when he socks a lion on the nose? (not supporting the practice but rather explaining the practice)

Certainly in those days, making zoos or having green space for animals wasn't the general upbringing.
 
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Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Okay, isn't that a bit violent? Couldn't Samson have just punched the lion and knocked it out with his super strength? Also, couldn't the 'spirit of the lord' have just guided Samson with a more humane way of stopping this wild animal?
Whose lion is it? Do the Philistines bring it with them? No, they do not. The presence of the lion is telling us that this is land that has never been settled by peaceful people. The Israelites, even before the Philistines arrive, have been fighting among themselves. (They have not been observing the Sabbaths.) If this were not the case then the LORD would have driven out the beasts, and the Philistines would not be present, either.
[Lev 26:6 NIV] 6 " 'I will grant peace in the land, and you will lie down and no one will make you afraid. I will remove wild beasts from the land, and the sword will not pass through your country.

From the beginning Sampson is a corrupt judge. He is no better than the lion he slays or the people who die with him in the temple. He is terrible, and at the end he judges himself a shameful person when he prays to die with the Philistines. All of them (in that temple to Dagon) are violent, and they all die together, killing one another, as is fitting for violent people.

But how do we know Sampson's last prayer? The narrator tells it to us. "Sampson" is a story in Judges, which is a group of stories about what Israel might be like if it doesn't keep the Sabbaths. Lots of weird things happen in the book Judges. Magnificent strength cannot fix the problems caused by not keeping sabbaths. If it could then everyone would be given such strength, the kind of strength which can subdue the lion directly instead of making it into a peaceful creature.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
I imagine some of this is in the translation, but I've always been curious about the comparison to tearing up a young goat. It is written as if that was something regularly done and commonly recognized and understood.

I'm fairly strong and I could beat up a young goat (a source of great pride for me), break its bones and inflict severe physical trauma, but I couldn't "torn" it in a manner that is consistent with my understanding of that word. I must conclude that the people of the Old Testament had incredible hand strength. Perhaps Adam was created with huge and powerful hands and this trait, like surviving to great age, was gradually lost over the generations since the Fall. Maybe this is the origin of the word handsome to describe a good looking man.

Trying to force these stories into a literal mold ends up in back breaking efforts that make more questions than they answer. I don't bother trying to sort out the contemporary hyperbole and look at the message in the story instead.
 

David Davidovich

Well-Known Member
Only the most naïve person takes all these stories literally. Don't forget this was written around 600BC. It should be read in the same sort of way as way as Homer - tales of ancient heroes, full of exaggeration and imagery.

Well, I know that Jews (and I don't know what percentage or what denominations) and Jehovah's Witnesses take these stories literally. Also, I will continue to read this thread to see what Christians at this forum take this story literally. (Also, don't forget about Hebrews 11:32. ;))
 

David Davidovich

Well-Known Member
From the beginning Sampson is a corrupt judge. He is no better than the lion he slays or the people who die with him in the temple. He is terrible, and at the end he judges himself a shameful person when he prays to die with the Philistines. All of them (in that temple to Dagon) are violent, and they all die together, killing one another, as is fitting for violent people.

You're the first person in any of the two threads that I have read who said that about Samson.

But how do we know Sampson's last prayer? The narrator tells it to us. "Sampson" is a story in Judges, which is a group of stories about what Israel might be like if it doesn't keep the Sabbaths. Lots of weird things happen in the book Judges. Magnificent strength cannot fix the problems caused by not keeping sabbaths. If it could then everyone would be given such strength, the kind of strength which can subdue the lion directly instead of making it into a peaceful creature.

So, is there a particular reason why God/Yahweh gave Samson this kind of strength?
 

David Davidovich

Well-Known Member
I imagine some of this is in the translation, but I've always been curious about the comparison to tearing up a young goat. It is written as if that was something regularly done and commonly recognized and understood.

I wondered about that too.

I'm fairly strong and I could beat up a young goat (a source of great pride for me), break its bones and inflict severe physical trauma, but I couldn't "torn" it in a manner that is consistent with my understanding of that word. I must conclude that the people of the Old Testament had incredible hand strength. Perhaps Adam was created with huge and powerful hands and this trait, like surviving to great age, was gradually lost over the generations since the Fall. Maybe this is the origin of the word handsome to describe a good looking man.

Hmmm. o_O

Trying to force these stories into a literal mold ends up in back breaking efforts that make more questions than they answer. I don't bother trying to sort out the contemporary hyperbole and look at the message in the story instead.

So, what is the message in the story in your opinion?
 

Brian2

Veteran Member

Prov 12:10 and Ex 23:12 can be seen as teaching us to care for our animals and the other scriptures are probably imo about loving your neighbour and not specifically about caring for the animals.
Caring for your animals seems like a different thing to worrying about the well being of a wild animal who attacks someone however. A violent attack like that no doubt calls for a violent response in which harm and suffering result. But of course what Samson did might even have been the fastest and most humane way to deal with the situation.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Well, I know that Jews (and I don't know what percentage or what denominations) and Jehovah's Witnesses take these stories literally. Also, I will continue to read this thread to see what Christians at this forum take this story literally. (Also, don't forget about Hebrews 11:32. ;))
I'm not at all persuaded that Jews in general take these stories literally. As for Jehovah's Witnesses, they have a track record of naïvety as long as your arm and are way out on the fringes of Christianity. The JWs are hardly a suitable basis on which to generalise about Christianity.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
So, is there a particular reason why God/Yahweh gave Samson this kind of strength?
Don't presume lions are killed to make the story or that Sampson would have been given such power. What the story illustrates is the weakness of physical strength. One moral of the story: keep the sabbaths and the covenant which are true strength.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I don't understand.

Within the context of the anointing that is from God is still subject to the person who receives it. One can misuse it or apply it correctly. It is more realistic for people to kill lions in those days than to have a "let's save the animals" position.
 

David Davidovich

Well-Known Member
Prov 12:10 and Ex 23:12 can be seen as teaching us to care for our animals and the other scriptures are probably imo about loving your neighbour and not specifically about caring for the animals.

So, what about Matthew 6:26? That's not only pertaining to birds is it? Especially in view of what Psalm 147:9 says. Also, see Matthew 10:29-31.

Caring for your animals seems like a different thing to worrying about the well being of a wild animal who attacks someone however. A violent attack like that no doubt calls for a violent response in which harm and suffering result. But of course what Samson did might even have been the fastest and most humane way to deal with the situation.

Well, I'm just wondering why God created violent, wild animals that attack in the first place. Because if God had not created them, then we wouldn't even have had this violent and disturbing account in the Bible.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
So, what about Matthew 6:26? That's not only pertaining to birds is it? Especially in view of what Psalm 147:9 says. Also, see Matthew 10:29-31.

I think Samson just defended himself in this case and ended up possibly doing more damage to the lion that he was expecting. I don't see it as something that requires any blame to be allocated.

Well, I'm just wondering why God created violent, wild animals that attack in the first place. Because if God had not created them, then we wouldn't even have had this violent and disturbing account in the Bible.

That's true. If the lion did not attack Samson then there would be no reason to defend himself.
 
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