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Homosexuality and Homophobia

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
homosexual behavior has be seen across multiple species in nature. so evidently its not the norm but it is based more on the consciousness, the spirit of the animal, and not natural expectation.


what doesn't seem normal in nature is homophobia; which is taught exclusively by humans in a religious context?



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Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
homosexual behavior has be seen across multiple species in nature. so evidently its not the norm
How do you figure it's not the norm if it is seen across many species. Usually that is the definition of normal, like how we can say it is normal for social animals to bond through sex.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
How do you figure it's not the norm if it is seen across many species. Usually that is the definition of normal, like how we can say it is normal for social animals to bond through sex.
the idea being implied is that the spirit=mind is more fluid than expectation of form.

i'm not trying to promote the reverse, heterophobia. its not a contest


so its more along the idea of mind, spirit over matter. love doesn't have a form per se but it definitely looks like something we know.
 
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Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
homosexual behavior has be seen across multiple species in nature. so evidently its not the norm but it is based more on the consciousness, the spirit of the animal, and not natural expectation.


what doesn't seem normal in nature is homophobia; which is taught exclusively by humans in a religious context?



View attachment 71350
Most cultures were "homophobic", generally speaking, and still are. It's not really based in religion, but sex roles. It's viewed as unmanly and unwomanly. That's the real basis of anti-homosexual attitudes you see around the world.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
As heterosexuality is the dominant sexual expression in our society, "heterophobia" is nonsensical.
Phobias aren't based on popularity or dominant expressions in a culture or species.

Definition of Phobia

A persistent, abnormal, and irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid it, despite the awareness and reassurance that it is not dangerous.
A strong fear, dislike, or aversion.
Any morbid uncontrollable dread or fear.
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
Phobias aren't based on popularity or dominant expressions in a culture or species.
So please, do tell us where the abnormal and irrational intolerance and prejudice for heterosexuality is? Because that is the application of -phobia in terms of homophobia. What bills are being written to limit and discriminate against straight people?
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
So please, do tell us where the abnormal and irrational intolerance and prejudice for heterosexuality is? Because that is the application of -phobia in terms of homophobia. What bills are being written to limit and discriminate against straight people?
A phobia is something irrational towards anything.

There can be a phobia against anything. The poster talked about homosexuality being the norm. I relayed that it wasn't a contest. Of course the behavior is seen but it's not considered typical based on the other behaviors on the spectrum of sexuality. They are less typical but acceptable.

Jeez
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
A phobia is something irrational towards anything.
That is a definition of it, and you're getting hung up on that. In the terms being used - homophobia and "heterophobia" - -phobia is used as mistreatment and prejudice which is (applicable of the given definition) born of misunderstanding and fear of "the other". Minorities that are outside the social norm and majorities for sexualities, religions, and ethnicities. Heterosexuality is the socially dominant sexuality, and ergo "heterophobia" is absolutely ridiculous, and not a thing.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
homosexual behavior has be seen across multiple species in nature. so evidently its not the norm but it is based more on the consciousness, the spirit of the animal, and not natural expectation.
...

But, is it really conscious action in animals, or just instinct based mindless movement? For example, a dog may hump many things, does it mean it is a manysexual?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
homosexual behavior has be seen across multiple species in nature. so evidently its not the norm but it is based more on the consciousness, the spirit of the animal, and not natural expectation.


what doesn't seem normal in nature is homophobia; which is taught exclusively by humans in a religious context?



View attachment 71350
Never heard of this book. Nope never:
 

Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
Most cultures were "homophobic", generally speaking, and still are. It's not really based in religion, but sex roles. It's viewed as unmanly and unwomanly. That's the real basis of anti-homosexual attitudes you see around the world.
Native tribes celebrate "two spirit" people and often make them shamans.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
But, is it really conscious action in animals, or just instinct based mindless movement? For example, a dog may hump many things, does it mean it is a manysexual?
Some animals are monogamous. They only mate with their own kind. Some avians for example.

i know men seems to enjoy rubbing up against things that vibrate. Like a push mower bar, or maybe on the washing machine. You can't use your example in context with homosexuality. Homosexuality is generally the attraction of two things of the same species being attracted to one another.

The real question, is why do you even care?
 
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Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
That is a definition of it, and you're getting hung up on that. In the terms being used - homophobia and "heterophobia" - -phobia is used as mistreatment and prejudice which is (applicable of the given definition) born of misunderstanding and fear of "the other". Minorities that are outside the social norm and majorities for sexualities, religions, and ethnicities. Heterosexuality is the socially dominant sexuality, and ergo "heterophobia" is absolutely ridiculous, and not a thing.
Heterophobia

Phobias aren't rational.

The idea being explored in this thread is that of religion promoting a phobia that is obviously seen in nature but deemed unnatural.

So how can something being observed in nature between two consenting individuals of the same species be unnatural?
 
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The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
Womp womp.
upload_2023-2-3_8-0-38.png


When you redirect to Wikipedia it brings you to the page for Homophobia, which has this little section for "heterophobia".
upload_2023-2-3_8-1-36.png


"Heterophobia" is not actually a thing, it is simply some straight people whining that they've got it really hard too because their son/daughter/child came out as gay and now they hate them just because they're not gay or some other twaddlespeak. Completely bypassing what is done in action under homophobia. Straight people aren't systematically discriminated against for their sexuality.

Phobias aren't rational.
You need to recognize that language evolves. You must understand this for this conversation to continue productively. Social phobias (homophobia, islamophobia, etc) are not the same as psychological phobias (arachnophobia, agoraphobia, acrophobia, etc). It does not suggest that someone is paralyzed in fear by the thought of being around homosexuals, or Muslims, or whatever else have you simply by the fact of their sexuality or religion. It denotes a hatred or prejudice and discrimination based on a social fear (fear of the unknown) that has little to no basis in rational fact.

"Heterophobia" is nonsensical and insulting in the face of daily evident homophobia in that the LGBT community's fear and/or caution around straight people is not irrational. It is not unfounded. It is born of the rational and necessary question: "Will this person harm me if they know I'm gay?"

The idea being explored in this thread is that of religion promoting a phobia that is obviously seen in nature but deemed unnatural.
So how can something being observed in nature between two consenting individuals of the same species be unnatural?
I have no disagreement there; I do not think homosexuality is unnatural. Which is why I'm not weighing in against that; I am addressing the misnomer of "heterophobia" and eventual list of other nonsensical "phobias against normal stuff" that's bound to come up whenever homophobia is mentioned.
 
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Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Native tribes celebrate "two spirit" people and often make them shamans.
Yeah, a lot of cultures had "third gender" concepts. That doesn't mean they were necessarily treated well or that they approved of homosexual relationships. They tend to be still treated as outcasts. The "two-spirit" thing has been appropriated by the LGBT movement and romanticized by activists, so I wouldn't go by modern views of it as reflective of how it was actually was for those tribes. I've seen a lot of fake "natives" labeling themselves as such.
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
I've seen you mention that before; do you have any source that differs from numerous cultural statements regarding their gender diversity as positive?
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
I've seen you mention that before; do you have any source that differs from numerous cultural statements regarding their gender diversity as positive?
Hijras in India and muxes in Mexico tend to be treated fairly horribly, for example. It's the same crap you see around the world where feminine males are treated badly. They're poor and often have to resort to prostitution. I know people want to blame everything on the Abrahamic religions but go be gay or trans in an African tribe that still practices traditional African religion, or in China and see where that gets you. The Pagan Norse looked down on it too ("ergi", which was their equivalent of "****** "). Tribal peoples tend to have strict sex roles.
 
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