Why Is It Standard Practice for Religious Widows and Widowers to Remarry Later?

[Exaltist Ethan]

This is part of an ongoing conversation that I've been having with @Trailblazer , and this topic was inspired by her.

Pretty standard question. According to almost every religion after you die you remain alive in spirit. It is already a given that you will die someday, so why is it okay to cheat on your spouse after he or she dies? My logical thinking on this is...

Your husband's physical body dies. He remains alive in spirit. He is now a spirit. So remarrying someone else doesn't make any sense because ultimately that person is still alive! Now, if you're an atheist, and believe that once something dies, it's always dead, then fine, so be it, you should remarry and be happy with another person.

But isn't it essentially being unfaithful to your now dead spouse to remarry to someone because they died? I talked to a Mormon about this, and even in their strict religion's of essentially a three-tiered Heaven, it is okay for people in that religion to re-marry if their spouse dies.

Does nobody take life after death seriously or am I just missing something?

Also, on a slightly (un)related note, this topic reminds me of the movie Clue, and Ms White and her many late husbands.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

It obviously depends on the individual belief systems, and some of what I'm about to say is as much cultural and generational as religious.
But ultimately people get lonely, whether that is for physical companionship, or simply social.
And many religious beliefs are limiting in how that companionship can be found. For some, there is no possibility of sex without marriage. For some, there is no possibility of sharing a home without marriage.

Religious widows and widowers have the same basic drives and needs as anyone, but less flexibility (again, depending on the religion) in meeting them.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

Religious widows and widowers have the same basic drives and needs as anyone, but less flexibility (again, depending on the religion) in meeting them.

Okay. Imagine this.

A guy gets into a car crash, and he goes into a coma because of it. They keep him alive for several years because the wife really cares about him. Is it okay at that point, after a considerable of time has passed, for the wife to remarry if her husband is still on life support and not responsive? Is it okay to kill him and stop life support just because she wants to remarry someone else? And let's say she was married to her now dead husband for twenty years but goes on to remarry and lives another twenty years with him before dying herself. Which husband does she keep her marriage to in the afterlife? In the afterlife will people okay with people having multiple wives and husbands?

All of this is at stake, and all you have to say is, "people get lonely." You're missing the bigger, more intuitive picture that I've laid out.

 

[Left Coast]

This is part of an ongoing conversation that I've been having with @Trailblazer , and this topic was inspired by her.

Pretty standard question. According to almost every religion after you die you remain alive in spirit. It is already a given that you will die someday, so why is it okay to cheat on your spouse after he or she dies? My logical thinking on this is...

Your husband's physical body dies. He remains alive in spirit. He is now a spirit. So remarrying someone else doesn't make any sense because ultimately that person is still alive! Now, if you're an atheist, and believe that once something dies, it's always dead, then fine, so be it, you should remarry and be happy with another person.

But isn't it essentially being unfaithful to your now dead spouse to remarry to someone because they died? I talked to a Mormon about this, and even in their strict religion's of essentially a three-tiered Heaven, it is okay for people in that religion to re-marry if their spouse dies.

Does nobody take life after death seriously or am I just missing something?

Also, on a slightly (un)related note, this topic reminds me of the movie Clue, and Ms White and her many late husbands.

From a Catholic (and probably larger Abrahamic) perspective, their answer is that one of the primary purposes of marriage is sex and procreation. And spirits don't procreate. So when your spouse dies, they can no longer have a marital relationship of the same kind as they had when they had a physical body. So that marriage bond is dissolved for the living person and they are free to marry another.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

From a Catholic (and probably larger Abrahamic) perspective, their answer is that one of the primary purposes of marriage is sex and procreation. And spirits don't procreate. So when your spouse dies, they can no longer have a marital relationship of the same kind as they had when they had a physical body. So that marriage bond is dissolved for the living person and they are free to marry another.

It would be more honest if they simply said they didn't believe in life after death.

I'm sorry, maybe I'm irreligiosity is just kicking in. Like, my mom told me numerous times that if she divorces my father or he dies, she won't remarry. I respect that. And reverse scenario I don't think he would either. And both of them are atheists.

It just seems like people do what they want most of the time, regardless of what is actually right or wrong.

 

[Trailblazer]

This is part of an ongoing conversation that I've been having with @Trailblazer , and this topic was inspired by her.

Pretty standard question. According to almost every religion after you die you remain alive in spirit. It is already a given that you will die someday, so why is it okay to cheat on your spouse after he or she dies? My logical thinking on this is...

Your husband's physical body dies. He remains alive in spirit. He is now a spirit. So remarrying someone else doesn't make any sense because ultimately that person is still alive! Now, if you're an atheist, and believe that once something dies, it's always dead, then fine, so be it, you should remarry and be happy with another person.

But isn't it essentially being unfaithful to your now dead spouse to remarry to someone because they died? I talked to a Mormon about this, and even in their strict religion's of essentially a three-tiered Heaven, it is okay for people in that religion to re-marry if their spouse dies.

Does nobody take life after death seriously or am I just missing something?

Also, on a slightly (un)related note, this topic reminds me of the movie Clue, and Ms White and her many late husbands.

I do not think it is 'standard practice' for widows and widowers to remarry and not all do.
I meet many widowers on dating sites who have been widowed for many years and are not necessarily looking to get married again. My counselor and my coworker, who are both close to my age and have been married for many years, said they would not remarry if their husbands died.

My mother never remarried and was alone for 40 years after my father died, but my brother looked for another wife after his first wife died and he found a Baha'i woman to marry and they have been married now for over 15 years.

I wondered about the following quote so I was going to post a thread and ask the Baha'is to give me their opinions.

What do you think @Truthseeker , @TransmutingSoul , @loverofhumanity , @InvestigateTruth , @Dawnofhope

“Bahá’í marriage is the commitment of the two parties one to the other, and their mutual attachment of mind and heart. Each must, however, exercise the utmost care to become thoroughly acquainted with the character of the other, that the binding covenant between them may be a tie that will endure forever. Their purpose must be this: to become loving companions and comrades and at one with each other for time and eternity….

The true marriage of Bahá’ís is this, that husband and wife should be united both physically and spiritually, that they may ever improve the spiritual life of each other, and may enjoy everlasting unity throughout all the worlds of God. This is Bahá’í marriage.”
Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 118

The following quote seems to contradict the quote above. If the following quote is correct that would mean there is not just one person with whom we will spend eternity, so if we had a spiritual bond with more than one spouse we could spend eternity with both spouses.

“There is no teaching in the Bahá’í Faith that "soul mates" exist. What is meant is that marriage should lead to a profound friendship of spirit, which will endure in the next world, where there is no sex, and no giving and taking in marriage; just the way we should establish with our parents, our children, our brothers and sisters and friends a deep spiritual bond which will be everlasting, and not merely physical bonds of human relationship.”
(Shoghi Effendi, The Compilation of Compilations vol II, p. 452)

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Okay. Imagine this.

A guy gets into a car crash, and he goes into a coma because of it. They keep him alive for several years because the wife really cares about him. Is it okay at that point, after a considerable of time has passed, for the wife to remarry if her husband is still on life support and not responsive? Is it okay to kill him and stop life support just because she wants to remarry someone else? And let's say she was married to her now dead husband for twenty years but goes on to remarry and lives another twenty years with him before dying herself. Which husband does she keep her marriage to in the afterlife? In the afterlife will people okay with people having multiple wives and husbands?

All of this is at stake, and all you have to say is, "people get lonely." You're missing the bigger, more intuitive picture that I've laid out.

I'm not missing anything. I'm merely explaining to you that people make decisions based on their actual needs, not hypotheticals.

For me, as an atheist who doesn't believe in an afterlife, the thing worth discussing between couples is what to do in scenarios like you've raised. I wouldn't want to be kept artificially alive for 20 years, and I definitely would want my wife to move on, and enjoy companionship. The bit missing from your hypothetical above is any nod towards the non-responsive husband's wishes.

Additionally, your comment about 'which husband does she keep her marriage to in the afterlife' is assuming a pretty narrow version of what is coming after death.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

In Christianity, we don't believe that the marriage vows are to last beyond death ("until death do us part"). This is a reflection of what Christ said in Matthew 22:30. Marriage is ultimately ordered towards producing new human beings and providing for their well-being, in Christianity. So there's little reason to be married after death.

 

[Trailblazer]

From a Catholic (and probably larger Abrahamic) perspective, their answer is that one of the primary purposes of marriage is sex and procreation. And spirits don't procreate. So when your spouse dies, they can no longer have a marital relationship of the same kind as they had when they had a physical body. So that marriage bond is dissolved for the living person and they are free to marry another.

From what I know of Catholicism a person cannot get divorced and remarry, but that person is free to remarry if the spouse dies.

 

[Brian2]

This is part of an ongoing conversation that I've been having with @Trailblazer , and this topic was inspired by her.

Pretty standard question. According to almost every religion after you die you remain alive in spirit. It is already a given that you will die someday, so why is it okay to cheat on your spouse after he or she dies? My logical thinking on this is...

Your husband's physical body dies. He remains alive in spirit. He is now a spirit. So remarrying someone else doesn't make any sense because ultimately that person is still alive! Now, if you're an atheist, and believe that once something dies, it's always dead, then fine, so be it, you should remarry and be happy with another person.

But isn't it essentially being unfaithful to your now dead spouse to remarry to someone because they died? I talked to a Mormon about this, and even in their strict religion's of essentially a three-tiered Heaven, it is okay for people in that religion to re-marry if their spouse dies.

Does nobody take life after death seriously or am I just missing something?

Also, on a slightly (un)related note, this topic reminds me of the movie Clue, and Ms White and her many late husbands.

People do not marry forever, they marry for their life here on earth (till death us do part)
There is no unfaithfulness to remarry when your partner has died even if their soul lives on in the place for the dead.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

I'm not missing anything. I'm merely explaining to you that people make decisions based on their actual needs, not hypotheticals.

For me, as an atheist who doesn't believe in an afterlife, the thing worth discussing between couples is what to do in scenarios like you've raised. I wouldn't want to be kept artificially alive for 20 years, and I definitely would want my wife to move on, and enjoy companionship. The bit missing from your hypothetical above is any nod towards the non-responsive husband's wishes.

Additionally, your comment about 'which husband does she keep her marriage to in the afterlife' is assuming a pretty narrow version of what is coming after death.

Fair enough. If I were married and before my wife died told me that I could and she in fact wanted me to remarry that would be encouragement for me to find someone new after her passing. I didn't fully consider the entire ordeal, my idea was, "if you never die you really can't be a widow" argument, that seems to have been deconstructed by both the atheists and the religious at the same time. Maybe the argument isn't very rational after all.

 

[Trailblazer]

People do not marry forever, they marry for their life here on earth (till death us do part)
There is no unfaithfulness to remarry when your partner has died even if their soul lives on in the place for the dead.

I am going with the Bible - till death do us part - since that came before the Baha'i Writings.
Besides, the Baha'i Writings do not address this issue.
The marriage vows are simply "Verily, we will all abide by the will of God."

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Because it's not cheating? We are social creatures. If your spouse is dead, why should you be condemned to a life of self-imposed loneliness and suffering?

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

I am going with the Bible - till death do us part - since that came before the Baha'i Writings.
Besides, the Baha'i Writings do not address this issue.
The marriage vows are simply "Verily, we will all abide by the will of God."

Well as you said remarriage it what your late husband wanted for you, so I'm glad you're trying to find someone else to spend the rest of your Earthly flesh here until, hopefully, you reunite with your first husband in the afterlife. I may have a narrow view of the afterlife but if we all end up being spirits in the end I wonder how that is going to play when you have more than one spouse you were faithful to.

Because it's not cheating? We are social creatures. If your spouse is dead, why should you be condemned to a life of self-imposed loneliness and suffering?

If being single is "self-imposed loneliness and suffering" then I should be dead already. If you can't learn to be okay by yourself you shouldn't be spending time trying to seek people for your happiness. Happiness is a condition of the mind not a state of being, and nobody really needs anyone else to truly be happy - in fact, with how everything is wired now days sometimes it's better to unplug the Internet and social media once in awhile.

 

[Trailblazer]

Fair enough. If I were married and before my wife died told me that I could and she in fact wanted me to remarry that would be encouragement for me to find someone new after her passing.

My late husband and I discussed this and I knew he would want me to remarry.

It is a Catch-22. I don't want to live alone for the rest of my life but it would feel strange living with another man, so I will probably not get remarried, especially if the man wants to have sex with me. I have never had sex with anyone except my late husband. I don't want sex anymore but most men want sex. Maybe I could find a man who is much older and unable to have sex, but then I am putting myself in the same situation as I did with my late husband, married to a much older man who is going to die and leave me widowed.

 

[Left Coast]

From what I know of Catholicism a person cannot get divorced and remarry, but that person is free to remarry if the spouse dies.

Correct.

 

[Trailblazer]

If being single is "self-imposed loneliness and suffering" then I should be dead already.

It's not self-imposed loneliness and suffering, because most people have what they call 'casual intimacy' rather than getting married. They date and have sex or they live together and have sex. Both are against the Baha'i Laws, but I would not do either one even if I was not a Baha'i.

 

[Left Coast]

It would be more honest if they simply said they didn't believe in life after death.

I'm sorry, maybe I'm irreligiosity is just kicking in. Like, my mom told me numerous times that if she divorces my father or he dies, she won't remarry. I respect that. And reverse scenario I don't think he would either. And both of them are atheists.

It just seems like people do what they want most of the time, regardless of what is actually right or wrong.

I don't think it would be more honest, I think their position is an honest reflection of their theology.

That said, I think you're right that people routinely "do what they want." But I also don't think there's anything wrong with remarriage after a spouse dies. If I had a husband and died, I'd want him to remarry if that's what he wanted. Because I couldn't be there for him in the same way I was before. I wouldn't see it as some violation of our relationship at all.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Fair enough. If I were married and before my wife died told me that I could and she in fact wanted me to remarry that would be encouragement for me to find someone new after her passing. I didn't fully consider the entire ordeal, my idea was, "if you never die you really can't be a widow" argument, that seems to have been deconstructed by both the atheists and the religious at the same time. Maybe the argument isn't very rational after all.

Don't let me put you off. This is the place to explore and question. Just giving you my perspective is all.

 

[Truthseeker]

I do not think it is 'standard practice' for widows and widowers to remarry and not all do.
I meet many widowers on dating sites who have been widowed for many years and are not necessarily looking to get married again. My counselor and my coworker, who are both close to my age and have been married for many years, said they would not remarry if their husbands died.

My mother never remarried and was alone for 40 years after my father died, but my brother looked for another wife after his first wife died and he found a Baha'i woman to marry and they have been married now for over 15 years.

I wondered about the following quote so I was going to post a thread and ask the Baha'is to give me their opinions.

What do you think @Truthseeker , @TransmutingSoul , @loverofhumanity , @InvestigateTruth , @Dawnofhope

“Bahá’í marriage is the commitment of the two parties one to the other, and their mutual attachment of mind and heart. Each must, however, exercise the utmost care to become thoroughly acquainted with the character of the other, that the binding covenant between them may be a tie that will endure forever. Their purpose must be this: to become loving companions and comrades and at one with each other for time and eternity….

The true marriage of Bahá’ís is this, that husband and wife should be united both physically and spiritually, that they may ever improve the spiritual life of each other, and may enjoy everlasting unity throughout all the worlds of God. This is Bahá’í marriage.”
Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 118

The following quote seems to contradict the quote above. If the following quote is correct that would mean there is not just one person with whom we will spend eternity, so if we had a spiritual bond with more than one spouse we could spend eternity with both spouses.

“There is no teaching in the Bahá’í Faith that "soul mates" exist. What is meant is that marriage should lead to a profound friendship of spirit, which will endure in the next world, where there is no sex, and no giving and taking in marriage; just the way we should establish with our parents, our children, our brothers and sisters and friends a deep spiritual bond which will be everlasting, and not merely physical bonds of human relationship.”
(Shoghi Effendi, The Compilation of Compilations vol II, p. 452)

There is no contradiction between spouses having everlasting union and having everlasting union with other people while you are having everlasting union with your spouse. This I hope for with Sara and you, both.