By Faith. Why?

[Redemptionsong]

Christianity is the religion that makes the subjective claims that the Bible is what they claim it is. The history of the text of the Bible does not support the claims.



How does salvation occur? Universally in the compassion of God regardless of the exclusive claims of any one religion in the millennia of human history based on ancient questionable scripture like ALL diverse conflicting ancient religions which each claims to be true, and YES, Christianity is a religion. Because of the the evidence you claim remains subjective and anecdotal, and circular argument for 'evidence' that is only accepted by those that believe on faith.

Your entire argument based on belief and faith rests on the subjective claims that the scripture of the Bible is what you claim it is. Unfortunately it lacks the historical evidence provenance that most if not all the scripture represents any sort of original text that can be dated to the time it was supposedly written. In fact the evidence is overwhelming that the entire text of the Bible was compiled, edited and redacted after the times it records. and the authors are mostly unknown

The new covenant is a covenant of faith, or trust; and the object of that trust is not a set of laws, but a person who was resurrected from the dead.

And as much as you might like to question the received Greek text of the NT, it exists and has undergone a thorough analysis. And l, for one, see no need to turn over the same old ground in order to prove to modern day sceptics the authenticity of the apostolic traditions. The Greek text, as we read it today, is as close as you'll come to the original, and it's enough to be bring a sinner to salvation.

I'm happy to discuss the scriptures, but as far as I'm concerned the questions being raised about the authenticity of the text and the authors are just a distraction.

IMO, there's enough information printed in the pages of the Bible to be able to discern the truth regarding Christ and his coming.

 

[Redemptionsong]

OK! This is also interesting. What's the premise? "Jesus was not offering eternal life in a prison". Hmmmmmm. Are you sure? Can you bring a quote from Jesus describing eternal life or the kingdom as freedom?

After his baptism, Jesus stood up in the synagogue at Nazareth and read a passage from the book of lsaiah. He read from lsaiah 61:1,2:
In Luke 4:18,19 it says, 'The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord'.

So Jesus saw his role to be that of the 'Anointed One'. Yet, he avoided the part of Isaiah 61 that included the 'vengeance of God'. This vengeance was for a future time.

In John 8:31,32 it says: 'Then said Jesus to those Jews that believed on him, lf ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.'

 

[shunyadragon]

The new covenant is a covenant of faith, or trust; and the object of that trust is not a set of laws, but a person who was resurrected from the dead.

Yes, this is a claim by Christianity based on subjective evidence. of belief and faith.

And as much as you might like to question the received Greek text of the NT, it exists and has undergone a thorough analysis. And l, for one, see no need to turn over the same old ground in order to prove to modern day sceptics the authenticity of the apostolic traditions. The Greek text, as we read it today, is as close as you'll come to the original, and it's enough to be bring a sinner to salvation.

Through analysis has two sides. The academic through analysis does not necessarily lend support to Christian claims of the certainty of the prophecies and provenance of the text.

One important point is the authors of the New Testament believed in a literal Genesis and Exodus, which is central to their view of prophecy. They also believed in symbolic and other nonliteral interpretations, but a literal Genesis and Exodus was central to their worldview. This is a problem of contradictions and consistency of interpretations

I'm happy to discuss the scriptures, but as far as I'm concerned the questions being raised about the authenticity of the text and the authors are just a distraction.

The questions as to authenticity of the text are front and center as to the Christian claims the text supports

IMO, there's enough information printed in the pages of the Bible to be able to discern the truth regarding Christ and his coming.

Only if one accepts the interpretation of the text that supports the prophecies and theology Christianity believes in. What is discerned from your perspective cannot qualify as truth without the objective evidence,

 

[2ndpillar]

The 'three shepherds' of Ezekiel 11:8 appear to have nothing to do with the shepherding of the Church. In two independent commentaries, l see that the interpretation given to the 'three shepherds' is, 'the civil authorities, the priests, and the prophets'.

Your "commentaries" would be the traditions of men. Yeshua specifically quotes Zechariah 11:11-12 with respect to Judas Iscariot as being one of the 3 shepherds (Matthew 27:9-10).

The complaint made by Zechariah is the same complaint made by Ezekiel about the shepherds of Israel [Ezekiel 34]. It's quite clear in Ezekiel that it is God who is the only Good Shepherd.

It is only clear that the "LORD" will judge between the sheep (Ezekiel 34:20), and then he will appoint "My servant David" as the "one shepherd" "over them (the sheep). (Ezekiel 34:23) The "fat" (shepherds)(those who did not feed tend or care for the sheep), as Peter was told to do in John 21:16, will be "destroyed" (Ezekiel 34:16)(annihilated (Zechariah 11:8) in one month (generation) with regard to Peter, Paul, and Simon. The shepherds in both cases have not fed or healed the sheep, for the Gentile church built on Peter and Paul, is still without understanding, or healing, and is "scattered" (Ezekiel 34:6).

Ezekiel 34:15. ' l will feed my flock, and l will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD.'

This is after he brought Israel, the sons of Jacob out of the nations/Gentiles to their own land (Ezekiel 34:13-14), which is after the day of judgment, the "Day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32) as laid out in Ezekiel 37:15-27, which has not happened, in which Israel becomes the "sanctuary" of the "LORD" (Ezekiel 37:28) "forever".

So, the Church is led by the Good Shepherd, which is God in Christ. This means that your interpretation of Zechariah must be wrong. For Christ is the 'chief shepherd' and all other shepherds of his flock come under his authority.
[See 1 Peter 5:1-4]

The "LORD" first judges the sheep and the shepherds (Ezekiel 34:16 & 20), then he sets "My servant David" over them as the "one shepherd", which is laid out in Ezekiel 34:21-28. The judgement will be by means of the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32) which is in the future.

.

 

[2ndpillar]

All this is false, radical right wing conspiracy nonsense, and actually not worthy of a response in this thread.

Go ahead and get your shots, they will not give you immunity, and more likely than not well help create heart issues, as pointed out by U.S. autopsy results. China opened up earlier this month, and now they supposedly have 1 billion testing positive, yet they all received their worthless shots. It might be intentionally, since the China population pyramid has too many old people at the top, and this might be a way to cull the herd, since the young are refusing to have children, and there will be no one to finance the older generation.

 

[2ndpillar]

If you do not accept any of the four Gospels as a truthful testimony of Jesus, then what right have you to quote Jesus (Yeshua) as authoritative on any issue?

It would be far more honest to ground yourself on the words of the Tanakh alone.

Yeshua came to shed light and fulfill the "the Law and the prophets". As of right now, it has not been "fulfilled", and we are awaiting the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32). The Tanakh is about the coming "kingdom" such as with regards to Daniel 2:44-45, but it takes the message of the "son of man" to expose the meaning, if one actually believes his message. If one does not believe what he says, well, they are no better off than the Pharisees, or the Pharisee of Pharisees. Yeshua said the "false prophets" were coming, and described them in Matthew 7, yet apparently only the "few" believe him, the "many" tie their cart to the false prophet Paul. According to Matthew 7:13, their destination is "destruction".

 

[Audie]

Go ahead and get your shots, they will not give you immunity, and more likely than not well help create heart issues, as pointed out by U.S. autopsy results. China opened up earlier this month, and now they supposedly have 1 billion testing positive, yet they all received their worthless shots. It might be intentionally, since the China population pyramid has too many old people at the top, and this might be a way to cull the herd, since the young are refusing to have children, and there will be no one to finance the older generation.

Always dumping on China from people
who don't have a clue.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Yes, this is a claim by Christianity based on subjective evidence. of belief and faith.

The study of history is based on many different forms of evidence, and the most informative evidence is not archaeological but documentary. In the case of the NT, the record is based on numerous testimonies, and there is no good reason to disbelieve these testimonies.

'Subjective evidence' refers to individual evidence, but the NT message gains its credibility from numerous eyewitness accounts. Similar to the inductive methods of science, numerous testimonies allow for the building of up of a picture. The greater the witness base, the greater the objectivity.

If your aim is to undermine the credibility of the testimony found in the NT, then you must, first and foremost, provide evidence that the testimony itself is contradictory and inconsistent.

I believe l can bring a far stronger case against the consistency of the Bahai teachings. The God of the Bible has set in place 'checks' that allow one to see when false prophecy and false doctrine occur.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Your "commentaries" would be the traditions of men. Yeshua specifically quotes Zechariah 11:11-12 with respect to Judas Iscariot as being one of the 3 shepherds (Matthew 27:9-10).

If you were following the leading of the Holy Spirit, l would have more confidence in your claim to know the mind of God, but your rejection of Pentecost as a genuine outpouring of the Holy Spirit makes such knowledge an impossibility. So, your interpretation of scripture is, more than likely, a personal interpretation.

As concerning the 'three shepherds' of Zechariah, it's quite apparent that Judas was not being referred to as the false shepherd. Matthew says nothing about Judas as a shepherd, and in Matthew 27:9,10 it's the 'children of lsrael' who collect the thirty pieces of silver returned by Judas, and use the money to buy the potter's field.

The priests in Jerusalem encouraged Judas to betray Jesus for money. It was Judas who regretted his decision and returned the money. Those that paid the price (of a slave) for the person of Christ were the very people who should have been 'shepherds' to the flock of lsrael.

This is why the rendering of 'three shepherds' to 'civil authorities, priests and prophets' seems to be much closer to the truth. Picking out three individuals from the disciples of Jesus leaves all the other shepherds of his flock unaccounted for. Christ was himself the 'chief shepherd', and the apostles were not ranked in order of faithfulness.

 

[Redemptionsong]

The "LORD" first judges the sheep and the shepherds (Ezekiel 34:16 & 20), then he sets "My servant David" over them as the "one shepherd", which is laid out in Ezekiel 34:21-28. The judgement will be by means of the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32) which is in the future.

The 'mystery' of the coming of the 'prince' [Ezekiel 34:24] (heb. nasi) as distinguished from the 'king and judge' (heb.melek) [Ezekiel 37:22], should not be overlooked.

We know that throughout the Prophets the 'Church age' is hidden. The first and second comings of Christ are conflated, so as to allow for the rejection of Jesus Christ by all but a residue of lsrael. This then becomes the opportunity for the Gospel to be preached to the Gentiles.

The final episode in God's great drama, which is yet future, is for Judah and (the new) lsrael to be reunited. The bands that were broken will once again be joined together.

 

[2ndpillar]

Always dumping on China from people
who don't have a clue.

Since when is truth known as "dumping"? The young people of China now have a saying of they are "laying down", which is to say that they are not going to work or marry or have children. I have many Chinese friends, and the young son of one Emails me about his status, and he told me he is not going to get married as well, and his dad is a well-off lawyer in Shanghai. As for China having too many older people and two few younger people, that is the result of a one child policy in which China recently raised it to two children, and yet no one is having two children except the farmers who need the labor. As for having no clue, I stayed in China for a month, living with Chinese friends, and presently correspond with Chinese via email regularly. The world is in a collapsing economic situation, in which China also has a collapsing economy, mostly based on the busting of their housing bubble and housing developers, the crash of banks, the lock down due to covid, and the rise in labor cost due to the shortage of young workers. The Chinese government has the local states provide funding for their retired military, and the states are bankrupt because they depend on the now bankrupt development companies for the bulk of their income. China is full of ghost cities (empty cities) which were built on borrowed funds, which ran out, and in which a lot of Chinese people own unfinished housing with lowering values, and are now starting to stop making payments, which is crashing the banks. Not that that won't happen in the U.S. as well, as people are starting to stop making payments on overpriced automobiles and houses, whose prices will fall due to the number of people stop making payments, as well as the loss of value for the dollar, which is going to continue. The U.S. has a number of younger people, with respect to the aging population, but they seem to be "laying down" as well and are determined to live in mom's basement and not have children, but their education seems based around CRT and their math, science, speaking, and writing skills seem to be underwhelming, whereas the Chinese work hard with respect to their education. I stayed at Nanjing University housing, and visited the unheated University library in December, and apparently, the only heat they felt was from the closely packed students on each side of them as they were as closely packed as the books of the library. Personally, I couldn't take the cold, and shivered continually. In the U.S., the Chinese students I knew, almost lived in the University library, and went home rarely before midnight to study in the library. Not the case with U.S. students in general.

 

[2ndpillar]

The 'mystery' of the coming of the 'prince' [Ezekiel 34:24] (heb. nasi) as distinguished from the 'king and judge' (heb.melek) [Ezekiel 37:22], should not be overlooked.

The coming of the "prince" of Ezekiel 34:23-24 comes after the "LORD" judges between the sheep, and he, "My servant David" will be the "one" shepherd, whereas the present "fat" shepherds will be judged by the "LORD God". The "sheep" will be "Israel" (Ezekiel 34:2). That "judgement" has not come whereas I will then "gather them from the countries and bring them to their own lands (the land given to Jacob)" (Ezekiel 34:13) which is in accord with Ezekiel 36:24 whereas "I will take you from the nations" and give you a new heart and a new spirit, whereas you will "be careful to observe My ordinances" (Ezekiel 36:24-27). As for 37:22, it is the same "My Servant David" who I will be put over the combined house of Judah and Ephraim, which equals the revised Israel (Ezekiel 37:28), whereas Israel will "observe My ordinances" (Ezekiel 37:24). As for the Gentile church, it is referred to in Hosea 3, as the "harlot" bought for the equivalence of 30 shekels of silver, for "many days", until Israel returns to the "LORD" and "David their king". The "harlot", the "Gentile church", was apparently bought to make Israel jealous. Both the "prince" and the "king" are "My servant David". Yeshua, the "son of man", was the prophet (anointed/messiah) to come prophesied by Moses. The house of Judah and Ephriam, are still under judgment (Hosea 5 & 6) and will remain so until they "acknowledge their guilt" and are healed (Hosea 5:14-6:2) on the "third day", after "2 days" (2000 years). The Gentile church is not healed, nor is it fed the manor from heaven, "every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God" (Matthew 4:4). The Gentile church seems to be weaned on the "leaven" of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy, which leads to death and "destruction" (Matthew 7:13-15).

 

[2ndpillar]

We know that throughout the Prophets the 'Church age' is hidden. The first and second comings of Christ are conflated, so as to allow for the rejection of Jesus Christ by all but a residue of lsrael. This then becomes the opportunity for the Gospel to be preached to the Gentiles.

The "Gentiles", as with the Gentile church, are preaching the false gospel of grace, the gospel of the false prophet Paul. They walk in sin, and are not healed, and they will die regardless of what Paul has sold them (Jeremiah 31:30), "everyone shall die for their own transgressions". What is hidden is the understanding of the "kingdom" (Matthew 13:13), and it is hidden from the "wicked"/sinners (Matthew 13:13 & Daniel 12:10).

 

[2ndpillar]

This is why the rendering of 'three shepherds' to 'civil authorities, priests and prophets' seems to be much closer to the truth. Picking out three individuals from the disciples of Jesus leaves all the other shepherds of his flock unaccounted for. Christ was himself the 'chief shepherd', and the apostles were not ranked in order of faithfulness.

Peter was chosen "first", and when Peter asked Yeshua what he was going to get for being faithful, Yeshua told him that the "first" shall be "last". (Matthew 19:27-30).

If you were following the leading of the Holy Spirit, l would have more confidence in your claim to know the mind of God, but your rejection of Pentecost as a genuine outpouring of the Holy Spirit makes such knowledge an impossibility. So, your interpretation of scripture is, more than likely, a personal interpretation.

Your interpretation seems based on the traditions of men and false prophets. Whereas I have built on the Law and the prophets, as well as the testimony of Yeshua, which are all of the spirit of prophecy (Revelation 19:10). The anointing doesn't happen with respect to Pentecost, because evidently you nor I were not alive at that time, yet the "children" who need no teacher still exist as the "few" (1 John 2:27 & Matthew 7:13).

As concerning the 'three shepherds' of Zechariah, it's quite apparent that Judas was not being referred to as the false shepherd. Matthew says nothing about Judas as a shepherd, and in Matthew 27:9,10 it's the 'children of lsrael' who collect the thirty pieces of silver returned by Judas, and use the money to buy the potter's field.

Judas was not referred to as a "false shepherd". All three of the "shepherds" were chosen by the "LORD" (Zechariah 11:4 & 8). It was Yeshua who quoted Zechariah 11:12-13 in regard to Judas in Matthew 27:9-10, and the NT falsely claims it was taken from Jeremiah (Matthew 27:9). And all the apostles were picked by Yeshua, including Judas, to be shepherds to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 10:4 & 6)

 

[shunyadragon]

The study of history is based on many different forms of evidence, and the most informative evidence is not archaeological but documentary. In the case of the NT, the record is based on numerous testimonies, and there is no good reason to disbelieve these testimonies.

ALL these testimonies are based on the subjective assumptions that the Bible represents what they believe on faith, and there is absolutely no objective evidence to support the beliefs. The history of the text is based on the objective evidence of archaeology and historical written records, but this evidence does not remotely support the Christian beliefs based on the subjective anecdotal evidence of 'faith.

'Subjective evidence' refers to individual evidence, but the NT message gains its credibility from numerous eyewitness accounts.

No, subjective evidence refers to evidence that lacks a factual objective basis. and does not refer individual evidence. Based on the actual evidence of the history of NT text there is absolutely no eye witness accounts that date to the life time of Jesus. all known texts represent edited, redacted and compiled over time more than ~70 to 100 years or more after the life of Jesus. Yes, we have 'some' objective evidence that partially documents the historical events and people of the tim, but the questions of the religious beliefs of Judaism and Christianity and ALL ancient religions are based on subjective testimony that evovled over time.

Similar to the inductive methods of science, numerous testimonies allow for the building of up of a picture. The greater the witness base, the greater the objectivity.

Based on the definition of objective evidence we have no objective evidence at the foundation of beliefs based on faith. The only objective evidence we have is the archaeological evidence and historical records that support 'some' of the facts of history.

If your aim is to undermine the credibility of the testimony found in the NT, then you must, first and foremost, provide evidence that the testimony itself is contradictory and inconsistent.

No

I believe l can bring a far stronger case against the consistency of the Bahai teachings. The God of the Bible has set in place 'checks' that allow one to see when false prophecy and false doctrine occur.

The question as to what is false or true prophecy and doctrine is decidly determined by subjective interpretations of the text and history and laxk any objective standards, which require physical evidence at the foundations for all religions including my beliefs.

I acknowledge that my beliefs in the Divine including the Baha'i Faith is based on 'subjective evidence' and beliefs based on faith. Though the Baha'i Faith has overwhelming more factual evidence of the history of the religion than Judaism or Christianity, The more universal perspective of the Baha'i Faith that considers the spiritual nature of humanity to evolve over the millennia of human existence fits the reality of the evidence of human history better than any one ancient religion that does not acknowledge this universal spiritual nature of humanity. It acknowledges the human cultural and tribal influences of the different religions, but embraces their fundamental beliefs in Creator compassionate God.

I do believe that universal perspective of the Baha'i Faith and my belief in 'Universalism' has much better grounding in the history of ALL humanity than any one ancient religion that relates only to the culture, tribe and times it originated without any original provenance of the texts.

My philosophy of 'Universalism' anchors me in a more objective perspective from both the nature of our physical existence and the nature and limitations of the many diverse and conflicting fallible human religions and belief systems in the history of humanity.

From my Buddhist perspective I learned that it is best to believe from the fallible human perspective 'nothing' is necessary and impermanence rules.

 

[shunyadragon]

If you were following the leading of the Holy Spirit, l would have more confidence in your claim to know the mind of God, but your rejection of Pentecost as a genuine outpouring of the Holy Spirit makes such knowledge an impossibility. So, your interpretation of scripture is, more than likely, a personal interpretation.

This decidedly confirms my conclusion that 'belief alcks any objective evidencem because of your reliance of subjective beliefs that cannot be objectively confirmed beyond what you believe.

 

[Eli G]

Faith points to things that exist but are not seen or to things that are still hidden in the future (Heb. 11:1).

The Creator is invisible to human eyes and the hope that he gives is something that we do not yet have at hand, because if we did, it would no longer be hope.

Rom. 8:24 For we were saved in this hope; but hope that is seen is not hope, for when a man sees a thing, does he hope for it? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we keep eagerly waiting for it with endurance.

That is why it is faith that allows people to be saved. But the faith that the Bible speaks of is not mere credulity; it has to be based on already demonstrated realities and on exact knowledge of those realities. For example, although we do not have direct communication with God, we know that others have, and that is why we study the biblical accounts to learn more about the God in whom we hope and whom we worship.

 

[Redemptionsong]

The coming of the "prince" of Ezekiel 34:23-24 comes after the "LORD" judges between the sheep, and he, "My servant David" will be the "one" shepherd, whereas the present "fat" shepherds will be judged by the "LORD God". The "sheep" will be "Israel" (Ezekiel 34:2). That "judgement" has not come whereas I will then "gather them from the countries and bring them to their own lands (the land given to Jacob)" (Ezekiel 34:13) which is in accord with Ezekiel 36:24 whereas "I will take you from the nations" and give you a new heart and a new spirit, whereas you will "be careful to observe My ordinances" (Ezekiel 36:24-27). As for 37:22, it is the same "My Servant David" who I will be put over the combined house of Judah and Ephraim, which equals the revised Israel (Ezekiel 37:28), whereas Israel will "observe My ordinances" (Ezekiel 37:24). As for the Gentile church, it is referred to in Hosea 3, as the "harlot" bought for the equivalence of 30 shekels of silver, for "many days", until Israel returns to the "LORD" and "David their king". The "harlot", the "Gentile church", was apparently bought to make Israel jealous. Both the "prince" and the "king" are "My servant David". Yeshua, the "son of man", was the prophet (anointed/messiah) to come prophesied by Moses. The house of Judah and Ephriam, are still under judgment (Hosea 5 & 6) and will remain so until they "acknowledge their guilt" and are healed (Hosea 5:14-6:2) on the "third day", after "2 days" (2000 years). The Gentile church is not healed, nor is it fed the manor from heaven, "every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God" (Matthew 4:4). The Gentile church seems to be weaned on the "leaven" of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy, which leads to death and "destruction" (Matthew 7:13-15).

I agree that 'My servant David' is Jesus Christ, but Jesus Christ does not appear once, but twice.

It's worth reflecting that king David was anointed by Samuel [1 Samuel 16:13] well in advance of David becoming king over Judah and lsrael. It follows, in parallel, that the anointing of Jesus should occur before his reign, which began from his throne in heaven after ascension [Daniel 7:13,14]. The present spiritual reign, which is partial, is followed by a universal and earthly reign on his return.

To my understanding and experience, the Lordship of Jesus is a present reality which does not bring condemnation on his 'body', the true Church. In accepting Christ by faith, a repentant sinner is justified, and begins on the path of salvation. Under these circumstances, the 'born again' believer is not under condemnation.

In all likelihood there is a false Church, but judgement of such persons is left to the Lord.

Romans 8:1.'There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit'.

You, 2ndpillar, might be awaiting the judgement of God unto condemnation, but l do not believe l am! I stand by faith, and l find that Paul teaches perfectly the doctrine of salvation by grace. I believe l see, in Jesus Christ, the face of God, and humbly accept the 'favour' and grace that proceeds from his throne!

Without the grace of God, we walk in the righteousness of man, and such righteousness does not lead to salvation.

Do you believe you are righteous before God?

 

[Redemptionsong]

This decidedly confirms my conclusion that 'belief alcks any objective evidencem because of your reliance of subjective beliefs that cannot be objectively confirmed beyond what you believe.

Are you not aware that only God is truly objective?

 

[Audie]

Since when is truth known as "dumping"? The young people of China now have a saying of they are "laying down", which is to say that they are not going to work or marry or have children. I have many Chinese friends, and the young son of one Emails me about his status, and he told me he is not going to get married as well, and his dad is a well-off lawyer in Shanghai. As for China having too many older people and two few younger people, that is the result of a one child policy in which China recently raised it to two children, and yet no one is having two children except the farmers who need the labor. As for having no clue, I stayed in China for a month, living with Chinese friends, and presently correspond with Chinese via email regularly. The world is in a collapsing economic situation, in which China also has a collapsing economy, mostly based on the busting of their housing bubble and housing developers, the crash of banks, the lock down due to covid, and the rise in labor cost due to the shortage of young workers. The Chinese government has the local states provide funding for their retired military, and the states are bankrupt because they depend on the now bankrupt development companies for the bulk of their income. China is full of ghost cities (empty cities) which were built on borrowed funds, which ran out, and in which a lot of Chinese people own unfinished housing with lowering values, and are now starting to stop making payments, which is crashing the banks. Not that that won't happen in the U.S. as well, as people are starting to stop making payments on overpriced automobiles and houses, whose prices will fall due to the number of people stop making payments, as well as the loss of value for the dollar, which is going to continue. The U.S. has a number of younger people, with respect to the aging population, but they seem to be "laying down" as well and are determined to live in mom's basement and not have children, but their education seems based around CRT and their math, science, speaking, and writing skills seem to be underwhelming, whereas the Chinese work hard with respect to their education. I stayed at Nanjing University housing, and visited the unheated University library in December, and apparently, the only heat they felt was from the closely packed students on each side of them as they were as closely packed as the books of the library. Personally, I couldn't take the cold, and shivered continually. In the U.S., the Chinese students I knew, almost lived in the University library, and went home rarely before midnight to study in the library. Not the case with U.S. students in general.

A whole month.

It's TRUE that your Sean Penn has crooked teeth,
one eye is bigger than the other, and his whole
face is lopsided.

In China for a whole month.

So don't gimme that " truth" stuff.
It's as distorted as the description of
your actor.

Everything I saw in the screed I glanced thru is negative.

So yeah, dumping.