A hundred and fifty guys all arguing "I'm your GUY" speaks to that unreliability.And here is the root problem,prophets=humans,humans aren’t reliable concerning truths.
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A hundred and fifty guys all arguing "I'm your GUY" speaks to that unreliability.And here is the root problem,prophets=humans,humans aren’t reliable concerning truths.
A hundred and fifty guys all arguing "I'm your GUY" speaks to that unreliability.
And here is the root problem,prophets=humans,humans aren’t reliable concerning truths.
Yes, different religions have different spiritual things that their followers experience. Some Christians might see Mary, an angel, get filled with the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues, maybe even see Jesus. A Baha'i? Some have visions of Abdul Baha'. Or maybe they're only going by their Scriptures, and because they believe them to be true, they accept them as evidence. And I do believe them when they say they "know" it is true.... to them. But to others? No, it is absolutely dependent on them believe it is true... as if that makes it true.
The Messengers are more than Human. They are pre-existing.
Regards Tony
Lots of people have started religious movements and have gotten thousands, even millions of followers. But, other than their followers, who believes they are for real. L. Ron Hubbard, Joseph Smith, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, and yes, Mírzá Husayn ‘Alí, aka Baha'u'llah all have started religious movements. I'm sure they have helped many of their followers become more spiritual. But is everything these people have said true? I would not be surprised if most of them rejected the other ones.A hundred and fifty guys all arguing "I'm your GUY" speaks to that unreliability.
And are the stories told about them reliable? Even Baha'is reject some of the things, like some of the miracles. A major one that is rejected by Baha'is is the resurrection of Jesus. Sure, no problem. How unlikely is it? But after we subtract all the "unlikely" things allegedly done by Jesus and other prophets, what is left? Supposedly the truth?And here is the root problem,prophets=humans,humans aren’t reliable concerning truths.
When you say "messengers" I'm assuming you mean people Baha'is call "manifestations". Because I think the word "angels" means "messenger".The Messengers are more than Human. They are pre-existing.
The messengers are more than human. But they get every piece of science they give wrong. They can't give any new philosophy. Or old philosophy? What exactly is "more than human" in those text. What writing is a human incapable of?
Baha'is reject some of the things, like some of the miracles.
And are the stories told about them reliable? Even Baha'is reject some of the things, like some of the miracles. A major one that is rejected by Baha'is is the resurrection of Jesus. Sure, no problem. How unlikely is it? But after we subtract all the "unlikely" things allegedly done by Jesus and other prophets, what is left? Supposedly the truth?
When you say "messengers" I'm assuming you mean people Baha'is call "manifestations". Because I think the word "angels" means "messenger".
In the Bible, angels are heavenly beings commissioned by God for special jobs both in heaven and on earth. Their primary duty is to be intermediaries between God and man. The word angel comes from the Greek word ”anggelos,” meaning ”messenger.”So how do you define a "manifestation"? And, like I've asked many times before, does Adam, Noah, Abraham and even Moses fit that definition? And can you show any Biblical reason to make any of them more than just ordinary men?
The Messengers are more than Human. They are pre-existing.
Regards Tony
And are the stories told about them reliable? Even Baha'is reject some of the things, like some of the miracles. A major one that is rejected by Baha'is is the resurrection of Jesus. Sure, no problem. How unlikely is it? But after we subtract all the "unlikely" things allegedly done by Jesus and other prophets, what is left? Supposedly the truth?
When you say "messengers" I'm assuming you mean people Baha'is call "manifestations". Because I think the word "angels" means "messenger".
In the Bible, angels are heavenly beings commissioned by God for special jobs both in heaven and on earth. Their primary duty is to be intermediaries between God and man. The word angel comes from the Greek word ”anggelos,” meaning ”messenger.”So how do you define a "manifestation"? And, like I've asked many times before, does Adam, Noah, Abraham and even Moses fit that definition? And can you show any Biblical reason to make any of them more than just ordinary men?
This is what's not correct?That is not correct CG, that is your take, not a Baha'i's.
We look at this with different frames of references.
Regards Tony
Then what do Baha'is believe about Moses' cane turning in to a snake? Or Lot's wife being turned into a pillar of salt? Or the Egyptian army being drowned when the parted seas came back together. And then the supposed miracles of Jesus. Do Baha'is believe he cast demons out of a man? Or raised Lazarus from the dead? Did Jesus really walk on water? The Baha'i "different" frame of reference is that these stories, including the resurrection, are not literally true.And are the stories told about them reliable? Even Baha'is reject some of the things, like some of the miracles. A major one that is rejected by Baha'is is the resurrection of Jesus.
So, because he says this, it means this?"Praise be to God Who hath ever caused His Names and Attributes to penetrate the degrees of existence....."
Yet, they are not pre-existing in the Bible. Why do they even need to be pre-existing? It's only a Baha'i belief. For me, I don't even necessarily believe those people were even historically real. And Baha'is don't even necessarily believe the Bible stories about them. If the story is fiction, why believe the people in the story are real? Only because it is what your religion teaches.Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses and all the Names of all the Messengers are pre-existing at that very moment.
Yeah, even if there is proof that such a person really lived, why believe all the fantastic stories written about them? And I still say that Baha'is don't believe those stories. They make the stories of those unbelievable events symbolic. Which to me means, fictional. Which to me, makes it myth and legends. If that's what Baha'is meant, then I'd agree with them. But they use "symbolic" to make things in the Bible true... just not "literally" true.Stories are great,Jack and the Beanstalk,Beowulf,Robin Hood they are all relayed by the fallible human.
This is what's not correct?
Then what do Baha'is believe about Moses' cane turning in to a snake? Or Lot's wife being turned into a pillar of salt? Or the Egyptian army being drowned when the parted seas came back together. And then the supposed miracles of Jesus. Do Baha'is believe he cast demons out of a man? Or raised Lazarus from the dead? Did Jesus really walk on water? The Baha'i "different" frame of reference is that these stories, including the resurrection, are not literally true.
In studying the Bible Bahá’ís must bear two principles in mind. The first is that many passages in Sacred Scriptures are intended to be taken metaphorically, not literally, and some of the paradoxes and apparent contradictions which appear are intended to indicate this. The second is the fact that the text of the early Scriptures, such as the Bible, is not wholly authentic.So, if I'm not correct in saying that the Baha'is don't believe some of these miracles in the Bible literally, then what is the correct answer?
The Universal House of Justice, 1987 Sept 14, Resurrection of Christ
The Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body; and when after three days the disciples became assured and steadfast, and began to serve the Cause of Christ, and resolved to spread the divine teachings, putting His counsels into practice, and arising to serve Him, the Reality of Christ became resplendent and His bounty appeared; His religion found life; His teachings and His admonitions became evident and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body until the life and the bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it.
Such is the meaning of the resurrection of Christ, and this was a true resurrection....
"Some Answered Questions"
So, because he says this, it means this?
They have a plan for peace. They want the people of the world to listen to them and adopt that plan. But why should the people of the world listen to them? Do they have any credibility? You've investigated their scientific claims and found them lacking. I've looked at, and I'd imagine you have too, their claims of fulfilled prophecies? Lacking. Their claims of progressive revelation? Lacking. Other than that, they are a fine religion... only if their claims were believable... that is... to people other than themselves.The messengers are more than human. But they get every piece of science they give wrong. They can't give any new philosophy. Or old philosophy? What exactly is "more than human" in those text. What writing is a human incapable of?
Yet, they are not pre-existing in the Bible. Why do they even need to be pre-existing?
Yeah, even if there is proof that such a person really lived, why believe all the fantastic stories written about them? And I still say that Baha'is don't believe those stories. They make the stories of those unbelievable events symbolic. Which to me means, fictional. Which to me, makes it myth and legends. If that's what Baha'is meant, then I'd agree with them. But they use "symbolic" to make things in the Bible true... just not "literally" true.
That's something I don't believe is true. I think those stories were written to be believed as being literally true. Or, if Jews and Christians want to say that their Scriptures are fictional, and that the true meaning of those stories is their symbolic meaning, I'll go with that. But, until they do that, I'm going with the writers wrote those things to be believed as true by the followers of those religions.